Interesting follow to Princeton Mom argument

Parents Forum
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<p>cobrat: This is a non-argument. You may be right that folks in your neighborhood are in impossible positions where there is no other option than leaving a six year old alone. That doesn’t mean it’s safe or right.</p>

<p>I don’t want to smugly say that creative thinking could solve the problem, but you seem unperturbed about the welfare and safety of six year olds left in that position.</p>

<p>Perhaps you might want to start an education campaign in your neighborhood. Perhaps there are responsible young teenagers who could watch the six year olds after school.</p>

<p>Not only are six year olds too young to be safe on their own, they are not interacting with older people when they are alone which also limits their mental and emotional growth.</p>

<p>There is no need to argue about this. We can agree that it’s sad and should be remedied.</p>

<p>I see no need to point fingers or blame folks whose circumstances we have no knowledge of. On the other hand, our concern should rest more with the children than with the adults who are failing to protect them.</p>

<p>As I implied earlier, I think we state state supported day car. Many advanced European countries provide this.</p>

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<p>^^agree. state supported childcare with workers paid a decent salary.</p>

<p>I, too, am sick of the mommy wars and putting down other women’s choice. </p>

<p>My snowflakes are grown, done with college, and grandchildren are under discussion :)</p>

<p>Women who work outside the home usually provide employment for other women, those doing the 9-5 childcare, and may be doing good in the community that impacts those beyond their nuclear family. From the time I was four or five, I knew I wanted to be home raising children. I was a SAHM who homeschooled. During that time, one of my best friends told me how aggravated she was that I didn’t really care about anyone else’s children. She sent her children to public school, and was very involved with volunteer activities and the school board. She did a lot of good in our community and I certainly got her point. Another friend tried to recruit me to work on an educational project, promising salary enough to send the snowflakes to the best private school in the area. Again, I could potentially have benefited more children than my own. Stay-at-home-parenting, in my particular circumstances, was probably a very selfish luxury, which I did primarily for my own amusement and self-satisfaction. And to create the sort of family structure I chose.</p>

<p>I thought about all this again, reading the Anne Marie Slaughter article in the Atlantic. I don’t like to think an education is wasted if women aren’t working for money. I sort of imagine an educated citizenry is a good thing. Since someone does have to do childcare for young children, I don’t see a problem with mothers (or fathers) choosing that as their “work” even if it is unpaid… which is how I justify my life’s work.</p>

<p>[Why</a> Women Still Can?t Have It All - Anne-Marie Slaughter - The Atlantic](<a href=“Why Women Still Can’t Have It All - The Atlantic”>Why Women Still Can’t Have It All - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>Her response to the controversy:</p>

<p>[Having</a> It All: Anne-Marie Slaughter Responds to Readers - Esther Yi - The Atlantic](<a href=“Having It All: Anne-Marie Slaughter Responds to Readers - The Atlantic”>Having It All: Anne-Marie Slaughter Responds to Readers - The Atlantic)</p>

<p>With regard to the original Princeton article: if you are a woman like me (or a man) who wants a life devoted to child rearing & homemaking, and you want to do that within the framework of marriage, it probably is very sensible to make finding your life partner a priority at a young age. I think looking at college for your partner is fine, but sort of thinking in the box about it. Lots of options for that search imho</p>

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<p>I remember dealing with this when my kids were little. It’s common at our neighborhood school for 6 yr olds to walk home on their own. There were occasions where my kids would have a friend over but I didn’t feel okay with just letting them walk home alone from my house, or dropping them off to an empty house. These kids were exceptionally self-sufficient, my kids definitely didn’t know how to make macaroni and cheese on the stove in first grade. I don’t think child protective services takes an interest in “latch-key” kids, it may be against the law but it’s not prosecuted where I live.</p>

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<p>I agree with Ann Marie Slaughter and do not think that an education is wasted in any scenario. A salary does not even begin to define the benefits of an education to the individual.</p>

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<p>^^what about to society? I think the question is whether an elite education is wasted if it is “only” an individual good?</p>

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<p>^^^^^
Thats my point - is society not better as a whole by having more educated citizens?</p>

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<p>I am certainly hoping that is true! :)</p>

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<p>No such thing as an individual good, no matter who much we might wish there were such a thing. Did you not send your children out into the world? Have they not made an impact?</p>

<p>How is this individual?</p>

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<p>It’s not being unperturbed. Rather, it’s not completely buying into the “Oh, my god, the world is so dangerous my child must be cocooned until they’re 21 or beyond” mentality that I’ve increasingly observed among upper/upper-middle class parents from well-off NYC neighborhoods, suburbs, and the mass media. </p>

<p>Especially considering despite the sensationalistic news events, most areas of the US…especially NYC has gotten much safer compared to when I was growing up in the '80s and early-mid '90s.</p>

<p>I agree state sponsored childcare is needed. However, I know that’s a pipe dream right now not only due to political realities, but also because NYC/State needs to have a radical shift in how they run their social service agencies so they actually do a better job of serving those in need rather then turn into another bureaucratic nightmare those already burdened with overflowing plates will need to navigate. </p>

<p>Heh, it’s a nightmare for social worker friends who do provide help in this area for lower income families…and they have good command of the English language, familiarity of our culture, and the benefit of undergrad and graduate educations. </p>

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<p>I was talking about my old NYC neighborhood while I was child back in the 1980s and early-mid-'90s. Not only am I no longer living in that neighborhood, that neighborhood has gentrified to such an extent the racial and SES demographics have completely changed. </p>

<p>My current neighborhood with few exceptions is almost the complete opposite. While there are a few families who allow their young kids as much independence as the kids in my old neighborhood had, they’re not the majority. Ironic considering it is much safer and child-friendly than my own childhood neighborhood back in the '80’s and early-mid '90s.</p>

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<h1>48</h1>

<p>from the article the OP linked to:</p>

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<p>I find this an interesting question. Does the elite grad who opts out betray some sort of idea of what that education is for? No idea. I absolutely want to see more women in positions of power and influence in every sphere of life.</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>I am going to agree with the “lean-in” idea as I understand it: keeping as many options as possible open as long as possible. Even if you assume you will be a SAHM, it’s best to keep all options open till you are actually in that position. imho</p>

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<p>Haha…maybe women shouldn’t be allowed to apply to college unless they sign a contract stating they won’t become SAHM’s. After all, what would a SAHM need an education for?</p>

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<p>It seems to me it would be a common good if graduates from HYP or the like worked in our day care centers. :slight_smile: We would have to increase salaries and prestige associated with this work. We could insist this is a good use of tax dollars.</p>

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<p>I consider myself to be a liberal, but lately liberalism seems to be falling into a kind of Religiousity and Puritanism of the same variety it used to be against. Only now it’s a kind of state religion of puritanical liberalism. I wonder if people can even see the way they are getting so lock step. sigh.</p>

<p>I mean, we’ve got food sins and action sins and thought sins.</p>

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<p>@cobrat: I think everyone agrees that kids need to learn responsibility and take steps for themselves without having parents doing everything for them. The big question is at what age do parents begin the process of allowing kids more independence. IMO deciding when to leave a kid home alone has more to do the kid than the safety of the neighborhood. That being said, I can’t imagine leaving most six-year-old kids home alone for any length of time. Kids at that age don’t have a whole lot of life experience and lack good judgment. That can be dangerous.</p>

<p>I’m not just speaking through the lens of being an upper-middle class parent. I come from a working-class, immigrant family–my parents both worked and we didn’t have extended family near us. My Dad saved enough to buy several rental apartments and my folks did all of the maintenance and upkeep themselves. My Dad also had a second job. When my folks were working at the apartments–we were there, like it or not. It was not common for kids in my neighborhood to be home alone–at least not at age six. The earliest I remember being home alone was in 7th or 8th grade. </p>

<p>Leaving a kid home alone isn’safety of the neighborhood as much as the fact that six-year-old kids don’t have a whole lot of life experience and can make some stupid and potentially dangerous mistakes.</p>

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<p>examples? elaboration?</p>

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<p>It makes sense. In this society, you marry those you meet. Those who go to highly selective college and/or hang around those who are in jobs that pay, are from families of means, will tend to marry those in that crowd. WHen you have a spouse who can make a living wage and more, the choice to stay home is there. If you marry someone whose pay cannot make ends meet the way you want to live, the chances are better that you will go find a job, especially when you can make enough to net something to enhance the standard of living. No mystery as to how any of this works.</p>

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<p>It is true that as high-achieving leave the workforce there will be less women in positions of power, the author “Lean In” notwithstanding. In medicine, when I was training, there were three heads of department who were women. These women were the grande dames of the teaching center, and has attended med school when they were quite a minority. But they’d attained the top positions in their departments. However, they were all unmarried, what would then have been called “spinsters”. And now, there in only one female head of department, though there are many more women on faculty. Work balance is definitely the reason for that.</p>

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<p>*
Haha…maybe women shouldn’t be allowed to apply to college unless they sign a contract stating they won’t become SAHM’s. After all, what would a SAHM need an education for?*</p>

<p>I started back to school when my oldest was four, so I could keep up. She taught herself to read English when she was three & started on Mandarin when she was five, I didn’t want to be left behind! :)</p>

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<p>I don’t know if anyone has addressed this yet, but my first thought on reading this is that education is never wasted.</p>

<p>EDIT: It was addressed. Multiple times. Sorry. :o</p>

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<p>“I don’t know if anyone has addressed this yet, but my first thought on reading this is that education is never wasted.”</p>

<p>True, but I think you can waste a lot of your money on education. Reminds me of a family we knew, where both of the parents were teachers. The mother was my oldest son’s teacher one year, a truly amazing woman. One daughter, moderate income. They sent their daughter to the best private schools from the wee grades, up on through college. They really, truly sacrificed, it was so much money for them to do that for their daughter. But the daughter was a smart, high achiever, motivated, doted on. As soon as she graduated college, she got married, started having kids, never even went into the job market.</p>

<p>Now that would be a disappointment to me, if I’d sacrificed a huge portion of my income for 15 years, and my daughter never even tried to get the first job. She could have gotten a decent education going to public schools in that area, and still been a brilliantly educated woman, but her parents wanted the best for her.</p>