Interesting follow to Princeton Mom argument

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

I unexpectedly became a mostly SAHM when my kids became late middle schoolers/high schoolers. I’d argue that being around at these ages is much much more important.

</p>

<p>That was the biggest surprise of my mothering journey. I thought they needed us the most when they were infants. Lo and behold, it turned out they needed me even more when they got to middle school.</p>

<p>I’ve done it all: stayed home full time, went to school part time, then worked full time, then worked part time, then at middle school years, stayed home full time again. Now the kids are in college and I work one or two days a week if I feel like it. That’s the best. I’m very fortunate to have always had the choice to do what I felt was best at the time. Not everyone is so lucky.</p>

<p>Since I’ve done just about every combination of working/staying home, I don’t even know where someone would put me in the whole mommy wars debate. I agree that it’s a shame there is such a thing. No one can be harder on women than other women. It’s rather disappointing.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

Now that would be a disappointment to me, if I’d sacrificed a huge portion of my income for 15 years, and my daughter never even tried to get the first job. She could have gotten a decent education going to public schools in that area, and still been a brilliantly educated woman, but her parents wanted the best for her.

</p>

<p>Well, I get what you’re saying, but there was never any guarantee that the daughter would use her education to get a good job. If this was something that they counted on, perhaps they should have made that a condition of their financial support before shelling out the money for private school. My kids’ college education has been at public universities, but we paid a boat load for private schools prior to that. I knew that there was no guarantee that their expensive private school education would gain them admission to elite schools (contrary to most parents at her school, who absolutely insist upon it), and due to my own choices, I was aware that someday they might choose to stay at home with the kids where their education would not be a necessity. But I view a good education as something which enriches a person’s soul, which makes them a better citizen of the world, and in some ways, a more evolved human being. The private school education and general life experience was a far superior option to our public school system in my opinion. So I was willing to give them that and just be happy in it for its own sake.</p>

<p>Your point is valid, and I agree that there are absolutely wonderful public university options, but I believe there can be other philosophies about all that.</p>

[cptofthehouse]

<p>We are coming full circle here to that first article. It is known that going to college does increase the chances that one will meet someone there and that a relationship will arise and marriage follow. As I said before you gotta meet who you marry. At my reunion, there were quite a few couples, with both from my class, myself included. So, yes, it does happen, at a statistically significant rare. My chances of meeting, much less marrying anyone from that school were about zilch if I had not gone there. </p>

<p>Though I agree having raised and am still raising kids, that those middle school and high school years are the ones where careful parental monitoring might be needed, I don’t know how much good that monitoring does as even the most low flying helicopter parents have had kids who ran into some serious issues those difficult years. You simply cannot control kids as easily or thoroughly once they are teens and getting to young adulthood without curtailing their independence, and just sending them to school is taking them out of your range of monitoring and much influence.</p>

<p>We don’t stay home with our children just because we’re the best ones to raise them. I’ve had child care that were better than I was in a lot of ways. Removing the emotional aspect sometimes is better, and we are not perfect, some of us quite flawed and not so great parents. We do it in part for ourselves. It’s a journey we want to have. </p>

<p>My brother is so grateful to be home with his little ones. What a journey for him! An older parent, this is now his career as he is retired. But he’s too honest to say, this is the best scenario for the kids. He’s an amateur and is making his mistakes too.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>BTW, don’t mean to imply that the average working mom cannot properly mother her children through middle and high school years. In my career, working meant leaving the house at 6:15 am (before they woke up) and not getting home until 7:30 or 8:00 pm, then sitting in a chair exhausted, with glazed eyes, unable to process much of anything. I didn’t make a good parent to a middle school/high school kid under those circumstances.</p>

[emeraldkity4]

<p>In my area a lot of women *are *using their education to earn a living. When our girls were growing up, we knew quite a few couples where the father had the more flexible job & did the bulk of the child care, while the mom had the more time consuming and sometimes better paying career.</p>

<p>Who stays home and when changes. Some families had the mom stay home while nursing, others didn’t nurse and found child care right away. Some were forced to find more flexible work when their kids needed them more, others had family or friends that stepped up.</p>

<p>Just as our work careers look very different over 40 or 50 years, our family life does too.
For many years my H worked swingshift- really sucks. Not home for dinner, asleep by the time the kids leave for school, gone to work by the time they get home. Also forced overtime on most weekends. </p>

<p>Hs job didn’t pay enough to live on just one income, and the jobs I could find without a degree weren’t regular enough to be able to plan for child care. I envied my sister and sister-in-law as they had family that helped out.
( my in-laws retired when their daughter had a baby- but they made it clear that they were not interested in taking care of our kids- my mom went to live with my brother & his kids & my sisters MIL came to live with her. Oh. Joy.- perhaps we were better off after all )</p>

<p>I do think we need to support young families more and we should also support a couples decision * not* to have children. I also think that we would be a healthier country if we did not have so many jobs with forced overtime, families need time together.
[url=&lt;a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parental_leave]Parental”&gt;Parental leave - Wikipedia]Parental</a> leave - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<a href=“I%20understand%20that%20businesses%20feel%20it%20is%20less%20costly%20to%20pay%20forced%20overtime%20rather%20than%20hire%20additional%20workers,%20because%20of%20cost%20of%20training%20and%20additional%20benefits-%20but%20as%20a%20society%20we%20would%20benefit%20from%20having%20a%20larger%20work%20force%20&%20kids%20would%20benefit%20by%20getting%20to%20know%20their%20parents%20:”>/url</a> )</p>

[zoosermom]

<p>My d2 is going to be a senior in college next year and has been grappling with the thought of what to do next. Somehow she got it in her head that whatever adult path she embarked on would be exactly the same for the rest of her life. I told her that the most valuable benefit of a great education is the ability to reassess and make changes at different times in her life to best fit her needs and those of her family. She is turning that over in her head.</p>

[psych_2]

<p>It really truly bothers me that people are constantly degrading the time and efforts that it takes to raise children and the idea that staying home with your children if it is feasible to do (and I know it’s often not) so makes you lazy and anti-feminist. In my masters program, I worked as a child therapist and in preschool settings, and after about a week, I told my mom how much appreciate I had for her raising us (my mom worked part time for some of my childhood and was a SAHM for other parts–one of her children [me] is “special needs” but not in a behaviorally intensive way) basically I could now see very clearly how much work raising children is, and I was only with them a few hours a day! That’s not to say anything against working mothers–by and large, they also do a fabulous job of raising their children (by the same token, some parents from both groups do sub-standard jobs), but I just wish that people would realize that raising children is “real” work and hard work.</p>

[mythmom]

<p>I do envy you gals who had all these options. Wish I could say the same.</p>

<p>Because our union traded our pensions for perks for older faculty (then) I have only a glorified IRA which hasn’t done as well as desire, for obvious reasons.</p>

<p>I don’t mind that I worked all these years (though the sabbatical year was glorious), but I <em>do</em> mind that with a PhD and having taught thousands of students how to think, how to write, and how to appreciate literature that I am past 60 and can’t retire.</p>

<p>That said, I really have no investment with what my daughter does with her education. I gave it to her as a gift. I enjoy conversing with her – my major goal. She is in a PhD program now and still excited by ideas.</p>

<p>Her BF is a computer programmer who is designing a video game. Right now it looks like she’ll have to work, but if he does well enough (and they really do marry) and she can stay home and raise her kids, I think she’d be very happy, and then so would I.</p>

<p>I don’t think we have anything to prove.</p>

<p>To me, feminism celebrates what women bring into the world. Raising children well is one of the great things to celebrate. I don’t like the idea that women have to ape men to be worthwhile.</p>

<p>And when American society values women’s contributions more, we will create job sharing and all sorts of other accommodations the way some European societies have.</p>

<p>I have been fortunate that “full-time work” for me is four days a week, with some of those days very short days. And a full teaching schedule is 32 weeks a year, so I guess some would call my job part-time.</p>

<p>I think I have also been fortunate in that college teaching resembles mothering in its skill set – communication, nurturance of young people – that I never felt I had to become two people.</p>

<p>It also gives me access to interesting people, conferences, (just delivered a paper on simulacra in post-modern fiction) and such.</p>

<p>But I do think education is its own end.</p>

<p>The necessity to work can be a motivator, but choices are better.</p>

[mythmom]

<p>I should also note that my mom was a SAHM, and she hated every minute of it and hated me. She was happiest when working, and was even happier when widowed. She worked until her mid-eighties and at 89 still volunteers. She’s the happiest she’s ever been.</p>

<p>I wished she worked when I was growing up (dad earned sufficient) so someone else could have raised me.</p>

[cptofthehouse]

<p>Some of my friends’ DDs are having babies now and they are hurting that they CANNOT afford to stay home with them even part time as their mothers have. Their husbands are the “swing parent”, not them, due to who makes the money and has the main job. My SIL tells me that it pains her terribly as well, that she is working full time + and missing the time with her little ones. You can’t always get everything you want, and when you make your choices as to staying home, working, how much to do either, you are taking a gamble as to whether you are doing the best thing for yourself and the children. As it goes for many of life’s decisions.</p>

[moonchild]

<p>

Somehow she got it in her head that whatever adult path she embarked on would be exactly the same for the rest of her life. I told her that the most valuable benefit of a great education is the ability to reassess and make changes at different times in her life to best fit her needs and those of her family. She is turning that over in her head.

</p>

<p>This struck a chord with me. It does take them awhile to have the long-term perspective, doesn’t it? Because our kids didn’t know us when we were young, single, or first married and maybe working more than presently, they don’t see how our lives and careers may have changed according to our circumstances. They think what they see of us now is how we’ve always been, which makes it harder for them to realize how much change and growth takes place and how we evolve over time.<br>
There’s a sense of empowerment well-educated women experience that they bring to their marriage and motherhood, if they choose it. With a good education, you’re ready to meet the world, whatever it brings.
I would not be disappointed if my Dd with two ivy degrees decided to stay home and raise her kids. Not if that made her happy.</p>

[jaylynn]

<p>cptofthehouse-- it’s not at all about controlling my kids or curtailing their independence-- it’s more just being around to hear about their day, be a sounding board for some issue with school or friends, etc. Just getting to hang out with them and be a part of this interesting time in their lives. And being able to run the forgotten Ultimate Frisbee form or dance leotard to school, lol. </p>

<p>When my D was about five she said, “I know what Daddy does! He looks at bones!” (he’s a radiologist). I asked what Mommy did, feeling that I’d modeled so wonderfully the happy working mom, the female full-time physician, going out in the middle of wintry night on call, helping sick babies and kids, blah blah blah. Her chirpy reply:</p>

<p>“You clean the kitchen!!”</p>

<p>Sigh.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

When my D was about five she said, “I know what Daddy does! He looks at bones!” (he’s a radiologist). I asked what Mommy did, feeling that I’d modeled so wonderfully the happy working mom, the female full-time physician, going out in the middle of wintry night on call, helping sick babies and kids, blah blah blah. Her chirpy reply:</p>

<p>“You clean the kitchen!!”</p>

<p>Sigh.

</p>

<p>A friend always loved to ask kids what their moms did. One day, the replies were:</p>

<p>“My Mommy works at the hospital.”</p>

<p>“My Mommy works with a judge.”</p>

<p>“My mommy works at a school.”</p>

<p>and finally,</p>

<p>“My mommy works out.”</p>

<p>Loved that. :)</p>

<p>Second story:</p>

<p>A friend’s Dad was a doctor. His brother’s class was asked to produce a drawing depicting their Dad at work. The teacher called, concerned, because my friend’s brother had turned in a paper which just had a bunch of circles on it!</p>

<p>After brainstorming, they finally figured it out. Every night after dinner, Dad the doctor would say “I’m going to the hospital to make rounds.”</p>

<p>Fantastic!!! :D</p>

[mythmom]

<p>Hilarious.</p>

[barrons]

<p>The article did not say all these women quit working to become moms. Quite a few probably have kids but it was not really mentioned that specifically.</p>

[Nrdsb4]

<p>

The article did not say all these women quit working to become moms. Quite a few probably have kids but it was not really mentioned that specifically.

</p>

<p>Okay, but odds are that the overwhelming majority who quit did so in order to stay at home with their children. Do you disagree?</p>

[Pennylane2011]

<p>I think staying home to raise the kids would be the primary reason. There might be a few who were married to men who moved frequently- like foreign service- and it might be hard to have two careers, medical reasons either personal or caring for a relative- not a child but elderly parents perhaps. The idea that a woman would just stay home for no reason hasn’t been around since the 50’s or 60’s when men “didn’t want their wives to work”. From that era on, it was assumed women would be in the workforce, and we’ve almost come full circle where women are questioned if they are not.
It’s also possible to not earn a paycheck but still “work”- as many stay-at-home moms put in hours of volunteer time at their kids’ schools, churches/synagogues, community organizations. A person can contribute much as a volunteer: tutor, charity board president, fund raiser, and other activities that aren’t counted as being in the workforce, yet the community still benefits.</p>