<p>Around how many people actually end up double-majoring each year? How possible is it to do it in three years? And...all these questions :)...how many units do most students take after freshman year?</p>
<p>I would throw this tidbit in for consideration. It's mostly about graduate students, so it's not directly applicable to people trying to get dual-bachelor's degrees, but I think it's still an interesting story.</p>
<p>I was talking to several people in MIT's LFM (Leaders for Manufacturing) Program. For those of you who don't know what that is, it's basically the dual-master's degree program run by the MIT School of Engineering and the Sloan School of Management. It takes 2 years to complete the whole program and students receive both an MBA (or optionally, an SM in management science) as well as an SM in one of the engineering departments, depending on what graduate-level engineering coursework they take. {For those of you who don't know what an SM is, it's basically MIT's parlance for an Master of Science, just like MIT's undergrad degree is actually called an SB, not a BS). </p>
<p>The first thing you have to understand about the LFM program is that there is no overlap allowed between the two degree programs. LFM'ers have to complete all of the Sloan MBA requirements as well as all of the SM-engineering requirements, including the engineering thesis that is required of all engineering SM recipients. So they truly are burdened with 2 entirely different degree programs, with all the coursework that entails. OK, sure, half of that coursework consists of Sloan MBA classes which are obviously easier than graduate-level MIT engineering coursework, but still, it ain't no walk in the park either.</p>
<p>Furthermore, I would also point out that LFM students also have to carry the minimum GPA necessary for graduate students, which is a B average (a 4.0/5 using MIT's grading scale). Undergrads can get their SB with just a C average, but graduate students need to maintain at least straight B's. Again, it is true that graduate-level grading does tend to be somewhat inflated relative to undergraduate level grading, but still, having to carry 2 separate graduate-level programs at the same time and maintain B's is not trivial.</p>
<p>In particular, consider the following. </p>
<p>*LFM students tend to be relatively rusty academically.</p>
<p>LFM will only accept students with at least 2 years of real-world engineering experience, and most have much more than that Hence, almost all LFM'ers have not been in a classroom setting for years. Yet they're still expected to take MIT graduate engineering courses and hold their ground (i.e. at least get a B) while competing against "real" MIT engineering graduate students, most of whom are pursuing their PhD, and practically all of whom went to graduate school right after undergrad, and so are clearly finely tuned academic machines. Clearly, this is not a fair fight by any stretch of the imagination.</p>
<ul>
<li>Consider the coursework load</li>
</ul>
<p>Most MIT engineering graduate students who are taking coursework take 2, usually no more than 3 graduate courses in 1 semester. Many take only 1. (And many obviously take 0 and are spending the whole semester on their research). LFM students not only have to take 1 or 2 graduate-engineering courses, but also the entire Sloan-MBA curricula - for, in many cases, a total of 6-7 courses, sometimes more. Again, true, Sloan MBA classes are not as difficult as engineering classes, but they still take up time - time that the non-LFM graduate engineering students don't have to spend. That's even more evidence that this is not a fair fight by any means.</p>
<p>*Consider the environment</p>
<p>When 'pure' MIT graduate engineering students are not in class, they're usually hanging around in their office with other engineers, where they can bounce ideas off each other, talk about engineering, get help and so forth. So they are hanging around in an environment conducive to really learning engineering.</p>
<p>Do the LFM'ers do that? Not really. They spend almost all their time around the Sloan School (E52), or especially around the LFM office in E40, where they're hanging around with each other or other Sloanies. The point is, they tend to be hanging around in an environment that is clearly not as conducive towards learning engineering the way that pure engineering grad students have. Again, this is more evidence that the deck is stacked against LFM students. </p>
<p>Yet the fact is, LFM has been around since the 1980's and every single LFM student in the history of the program has managed to complete the requirements and get both degrees. That's right, every single one. Not one of them was forced to leave the program because of subpar academic performance. </p>
<p>Now some of you might be thinking, yeah, sakky, that's easy enough to explain - they all must be geniuses. Well, what I can tell you is that they certainly don't think that they are geniuses. In fact, to a man (or woman) they will freely concede that they aren't as good as the other MIT engineering graduate students with whom they are competing. One LFM'er said it best to me when he said "Look, we're not geniuses. Those other MIT engineering grad students are the REAL geniuses. Most of them are getting their PhD's. We're not as good as they are. If we really were as good as they are, then we would have gotten PhD's just like they're doing now. We're not" </p>
<p>The moral of the story is while getting dual-degrees at MIT is certainly no cakewalk, I don't think it's as hard as some people are making it out to be. If all these LFM'ers can successfully get MBA's and SM's in engineering at the same time and within the regular 2-year timeframe that it usually takes to get either degree, and despite the fact that they themselves concede that they aren't geniuses, then I don't think it should be a problem for a sufficiently motivated MIT undergrad to handle dual-SB degrees.</p>
<p>Thank you, sakky :)</p>
<p>I appreciate your eloquent insight.</p>
<p><em>laughs</em> from LSA's original lj community link:
[quote]
jessiehl:
Is it what all the cool kids are doing these days?</p>
<p>It does seem to be. When I took 8.02 last spring, I think two or three of the eight people at my table, all freshmen, were planning to double in 6 and 15. They called it "6 with a dollar sign".
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I would also add that the LFM program is not the only way you can get dual-graduate degrees. The Sloan School has several other formal dual-degree programs, for example the BEP program (MBA or SM from Sloan + SM from the HST department), or the Sloan/Harvard Kennedy School of Government partnership (MBA or SM from Sloan + MPA or MPP from Harvard). Informal programs are also sometimes constructed within the various different graduate business-style degrees - i.e. an MBA + an SM in Operations Research (OR is an interdisciplinary graduate-program housed within Sloan), or an MBA + an SM in Real Estate Development from the MIT Center for Real Estate). Nor is dual-graduate degrees restricted only to Sloanies. I know other graduate students who have completed dual master's in various technical disciplines, i.e. an SM in course 6 + an SM in course 18, or 8+18, or 14+18. Many other combinations are possible. I heard of one guy who got SM's in 18,8, and 5 (math, physics, and chemistry) before ultimately getting his PhD in course 10 (chemical engineering). {I don't know if MIT still allows people to do that anymore}</p>
<p>Now obviously this all had to do with graduate-students, and so it's not directly relevant to most people here. However, it is indirectly related in the sense that if these graduate students can go around successfully completing multiple master's degrees, then it should be quite amenable for a dedicated undergraduate to go around completing multiple SB degrees.</p>