<p>Rule of thumb: if you're not applying for financial aid as an international student you will most likely be put in the same pool as domestic applicants at top colleges (there are execptions though, like MIT).
For colleges ranked in Tier 2 (or lower), you have a real advantage if you're an international not seeking for aid.</p>
<p>However, there isn't really a point in guessing chances at this stage (well, actually there is seldom a point in guessing chances on CC...) since you haven't taken your SATs yet.
Just look for colleges that you like in terms of size, location, reputation, majors, atmosphere etc. </p>
<p>As I said, there's no point in making chances without your SATs but you should be a competitive applicant at pretty much every American university.</p>
<p>I don't know of any college where they just lump internationals with US residents, whether or not they give financial aid. It may not necessarily be more difficult to be admitted, but they nearly always have a separate process for internationals, just because evaluating the credentials of internationals is so different. At most larger universities, there is generally an adcom handling international applications who is familiar with various countries eduactional systems. Most colleges don't allow internationals to apply ED for instance, which is often a big advantage in admission. </p>
<p>To a large part, you will compete against other international applicants not against domestic applicants. Even there, you may find the school is seeking some diversity in its international enrollment and will not admit all of its internationals from just a few countries. You will actually find that Europeans are generally underrepresented in the international applicant pool at the undergraduate level, which could be an advantage for you. I don't think many Germans apply to Caltech straight out of high school for instance. </p>
<p>Again, I don't believe your SAT scores will matter that much, especially the verbal part. In many countries, the average math and science level coming out of high school is significantly higher than the US. They are not really worried you won't be able to handle the work. </p>
<p>Assuming you are qualified (relative to your peers in Germany), your chance of admission may have more to do with overall policies regarding internationals. Remember, that in the US, "demonstrated interest" is often considered a factor in admission. Also, get some solid recommendations from your professors. Provide them with a listing of your accomplishments if necessary. Don't have them just list your grades and say you are a good student. The college will see that from the transcript. Have them talk about what you will bring to the college. If the college you are applying to has not admitted many Germans in the past, make sure they get a letter from your school principal explaining the grading system and giving an estimate of your rank in the class together with the transcript. In some countries, getting an A or equivalent is much harder than in the US. What looks like average grades may actually be in the top 5% of the class. Visiting some of the schools over the summer may be of great help. You could meet some of the faculty and people at the admissions office. You will also get a better feel for the schools you intend to apply to. With the current value of the dollar, it is cheaper for you to spend as few weeks in California than on the beach in Spain.</p>
<p>Thanks for that very detailed post!
I've already talked to some of my teachers about recommendation letters, they all "believe" in my skills and are willing to write, but do not know what it should look like. My sciece teacher told me that I am the best student he has had so far and I should just bring an example of a perfect recommendation letter that he would then adjust to fit me.
But I guess individual details are more important?</p>
<p>@ Rangzen</p>
<p>I know this thread is old but I felt the need to respond and give you important advice: You face a VERY HARD chance of admittance, no matter how well your grades are. The UCs are public universities and highly favor California residents (UCLA admits like 80-90% in-state students). The only way you will be able to get into UCLA, your dream school, is pure luck or you know someone to influence your admissions. I would also apply to USC and Stanford.</p>
<p>I would not hesitate to draft a model letter with relevant personal details in it, to submit to your professor for review. Try to have somebody who knows you well write the letter rather than somebody who just gave you a top grade. It will be much more meaningful. </p>
<p>I would also strongly encourage you to have the principal of your high school or somebody high level in your school administration write a letter as well. In the US the guidance counselor writes such a letter and it is often very important to admissions officers. Many high schools ask the student to provide a 'brag' sheet about his accomplishments. In a large high school, the principal may not know you personally and you want the letter feel more personal. In the letter, the principal needs to provide details about the overall curriculum at your high school, the Abitur pass rate, how difficult your specific curriculum was relative to that of your peers, what your rank at the school was (in the absence of ranking provide a percentile such as top 5%, top 10% etc..). Without such a letter the US college has no way of knowing if your high school is selective or if you took any hard classes. The preference at elite colleges is that the student should take the most challenging curriculum available to him. </p>
<p>Also spend significant time on your essays. You are obviously a good writer in English so it should not be that hard. US colleges want to know about your "character" and if you will fit in to their culture. Make that apparent in your essays. Add an extra essay specifically on why you intend to study in the US and why the college you are applying to is your first choice. (Don't just reuse the same essays but try to customize them). They will generally be impressed if you travelled specifically to visit the school. Make sure to read the colleges web sites so that you can refer to specific programs of interest in your essay. </p>
<p>Again, the admissions process will sound very different to what you may be used to, but most private colleges in the US use a holistic approach to admission. As long as you qualify academically (which you most likely do), the decision may rest on other factors. They often want to know what you will bring to the university not just what you will take away.</p>
<p>What exactly does "challenging curriculum" mean?
Take as many courses as possible, or take higher quality courses?
I do not have many, but rather hard courses, such as the Math Preference Course, which consists of only 15 students from two schools (we were more in the beginning). Needless to say that even the worst of the Math Preference Course is better than students from the normal course.</p>
<p>Quality is nearly always better than quantity. At a place like Caltech it is assumed you have taken the most advanced math and science classes available to you AND done well at them. Just loading up on classes with little relevancy to your intended course of study will not help. </p>
<p>Make sure your school explains what these Preference Courses mean. How they compare to IB HL courses for instance as US colleges are familiar with those. </p>
<p>If you are engaged in any extra-curricular activities also related to your intended area of study that should also be emphasized. I saw you were part of a math club. Did you ever participate in any math competitions? </p>
<p>You seem to have a whole lot of activities related to Tibet. Try to shape these activities into some cohesive interest through one of your essays. Maybe even have a reference talk about it in a recommendation letter. These letters do not have to just come from professors but could also come from somebody who can speak about you. Maybe the Chairman of the German Human Rights group on Tibet if he knows you. Some schools (particularly those with bigger endowments) like to claim some social conscience and favor applicants with strong volunteering backgrounds. I would not bother listing a lot of activities for which you don't care much. Just focus on a few and present them well. Since ECs are that much less common in Europe, your interests may be perceived as more genuine and not as just padding your application.</p>
<p>The thing with my ECs is that I like and care for all of them.
Its not that I have done anything for my college application (going to the US is a rather new idea)</p>
<p>@ Rangzen</p>
<p>I also forgot to add that as an international student you will face more rigorous admissions criteria. You may have to apply up to eight schools to increase your chances because you're an international student. I would apply to many colleges (LACs and universities) in California:</p>
<p>Cal Pol San Luis, Cal Tech, Claremont McKenna, Harvey Mudd, Loyola Marymount, Occidental, Pepperdine, Pitzer, Pomona, Santa Clara, San Diego State Univ, Scripps, Stanford, UC-Berkeley, UCLA, USC</p>
<p>Also UC-Irvine, UC-San Diego, UC-Irvine, UC-Santa Barbara, UC-Davis, UC-Riverside</p>
<p>I was also not kidding when I say the UCs admits only 10% non-California residents: Bigger</a> pool leads to lower UC admission rate - Los Angeles Times</p>
<p>*"The UC system also offered admission to more than 7,500 out-of-state and international students, keeping its traditional 10% of undergraduates from outside California.</p>
<p>Non-Californians pay much higher fees at UC than in-state students and generally must present higher grades and test scores for admission. "These are exceptionally well qualified students who we feel will make an addition to our campuses," Wilbur said." *</p>
<p>I am not suggesting your drop any of your ECs, but putting together an application THAT STANDS OUT is more an art than a science. Think of it as selling yourself to the college. Your transcript will sell itself if they can decipher it, the rest is up to you. As others have said the UCs have few spots for OOS students and even less for internationals. A Harvey Mudd or even Caltech may be more incented to accept you because they look for geographic diversity while the UCs don't. So just listing ECs doesn't help much: pick a few and explain in an essay why they really matter to you. Have the professors and other references really explain why they think you will provide a fresh perspective to the college. It sounds really subjective but behind the process is a real effort to look at fit, especially at smaller schools where they will spend hours on a single application. </p>
<p>You haven't really explained if you need any financial aid or if you have the budget to pay full tuition. If the latter is true you obviously will have more choices as international admissions are rarely need blind.</p>
<p>Also, how critical is it for you to go to school in Socal. Norcal is a hop away, and would double your options. What about Washington, Colorado, Arizona. You should really be somewhat flexible as you may always be able to transfer once in the US. Even the East Coast is more than half way to the rest of your family from Germany.</p>
<p>@ Rangzen</p>
<p>The beauty about the United States is that we have many colleges and universities that cover vast geographies and time zones. If the competition in California is too fierce, you can also consider schools in the Midwest and East Coast. Some schools, especially the numerous privates, can offer you better financial aid for international students if it is an important factor in your decision-making choices.</p>
<p>I am really impressed...
While I keep hearing that we are living in a time of egocentric people, you guys are just great!</p>
<p>Thanks for the list tenis, I will do some further research on these schools later.</p>
<p>And cellardweller, I do not need financial aid.</p>
<p>I would really love to go to a school around LA, but will definitely apply to some other schools as well.</p>
<p>Taking the SAT on the next saturday - just to see how I would do in it.</p>
<p>Add to the list the University of San Francisco.</p>
<p>Thanks yorkshire_lass, I'm going to check all the websites after this Saturday's SAT.</p>
<p>Can anyone of you please tell me where to find an example recommendation letter? I've seen descriptions, but havent seen an example yet.
My teacher is requesting such an example to give me a recommendation that is appropriate to American standards.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>I'd really appretiate if you can tell me where to find recommendation examples.
My teachers are not really sure about how it should look like...
They are also unsure about what to write and what not to.
I've recently missed several days in school because of all the Tibet demonstrations - my math teacher believes that its good to mention that I missed the days, but have easily managed to stay on top of most classes.
On the other hand, the university might think that I am not taking school serious enough?</p>
<p>Also, doesn't it make me kinda unique to be born in Tibet but ethnically a Tibetan? Now that I've taken the SAT I've started learning for the Subject Tests and have done some more research about the universities suggested so far. </p>
<p>I'm really interested into USC, is it possible to gather some more information about their relation to Internationals?
I've already seen the profile, but its kinda unspecific.</p>
<p>Thanks so much :)</p>