What colleges schould I apply for? International student (German)

International Students
1

<p>Hello,
this is some special "What are my Chances?" thread:</p>

<p>Nationality: German
Gender: Male
Year: Senior Year / 13 out of 13
Major: Politics&Government</p>

<p>Coursework:
We can't choose many courses in Germany. We have courses with 2 hours/week (*=compulsory) and 5 courses with 4 hours/week (most rigorous). So there's no "Take rigorous courses", because you must take rigorous courses, you can only choose which ones you like.</p>

<p>4 h/w:
German
Math (everything combined)
English
History
Chemistry</p>

<p>2 h/w:
Religion*
PE/Sports*
Politics/Geography (half/half)*
Physics (or Bio, I chose Ph)
Music (or Art, but I'm a musician)
Computer Science</p>

<p>I speak(or know): German (perfect), English (very well), Spanish (quite ok), French (quite ok), Latin (very well), Chinese (basics but expanding).
I dropped Latin and French, because I couldn't choose everything. It was quite stupid to drop Latin, that would have been so easy... :(
Chinese is a voluntary course without marks. I also have been to China about 2 years ago.</p>

<p>Interests:
-other languages and cultures -> diversity
-music, I love music -> but don't want it to become my profession
-politics -> That's how I can help changing my country or even this world a little bit to the better
-literature and philosophy (political ideologies include lots of philosophy, too).</p>

<p>Marks:
My Average Score is about 12.2 points out of 15 points (=best) or ~1.7 out of 6 (1=best) Could be better - It seems to me that I just have got the strictest teachers of the whole school. On the other hand, according to WES, my grades are quite good compared to american grades: WES</a> Grade Conversion Guide: Germany
Everything down to 10 is an A.</p>

<p>Tests:
SATI: 1710 due to my English that couldn't stand those hard words. Definitly retaking.
SATII: Physics/Spanish. Scores not received yet. Should be around 650-800. Can't say sth. more concrete.
TOEFL: Planning to take it.</p>

<p>ECs:
There are not as much ECs as in the US, it's not as common to have a lot of ECs, but there are some:
-Playing the piano, violin, viola and church organ
-Playing the viola on the first chair in 3 orchestras and anually in a small international youth orchestra.
-Playing the church organ every sunday during church service/mass. I often play in my village, but also in other villages and in both catholic and lutheran churches.
-I also participate in a so-called C-Course where I have organ lessons and lessons in hymnology, history of music in church, leading a choir, building organs etc... When I'm finished, I could become a professional organist.
-I do judo
-I am member of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), comparable to the U.S. Democrats. I participate in political events and debates, volunteer work for the party etc.</p>

<p>Competitions:
-History competition
-Competition about political education
both current</p>

<p>Internships:
-1 week Lawyer
-1 week bank
-1 week physician
-2 weeks really hard work in a retirement home</p>

<p>Work Experience:
Most companies don't employ people under 18 yrs.. It was difficult to get some work:
-3 Weeks in a company that works on metal - I accepted the incoming wares, which was a lot of responsibility
-3 Weeks in a plastic company handling a machine.</p>

<p>Recs, Essay:
Recs should be quite fine. I didn't write the essay yet, but I will try to write it as well as possible. Frankly, who wouldn't?</p>

<p>Financial Situation:
That's some kind of tricky: We're just in the middle class. I certainly won't be able to pay thousands of dollars for tuition without taking a huge credit (finance crisis oops). So I will need any kind of loan or scholarship.
On the other hand, education in Germany depends very much on money and the education of the parents. It's not supposed to, but studies (e.g. PISA) are proving it. Most pupils out of poor families don't have chance to study. My father's just a normal worker in a big company and my mother doesn't work. Both didn't attend university or even the gymnasium (some kind of high school, the best out of 3 different ones and the only one that leads you immediately to university). I am at a disadvantage because my parents are not as rich and educated. May that help?</p>

<p>OK, that should be all. What are my chances? I don't want to nominate any special school, although I have some slight imaginations...
But can YOU give me some piece of advice: What school should I apply for? What's the best school I could reach. I know that you can never know, but maybe we have some experts for good suggestions in here.</p>

<p>Thank you
Tequilausn</p>

2

<p>I think it would be helpful to know a little more about the type of school you have in mind - large university? small LAC? Big city or more rural? Any particular geographic area?</p>

<p>I do think that, as you are an International, that is the challenge. As some schools offer financial aid to internationals, but many don’t. I have no particular expertise in that area, although some other posters will.</p>

<p>If you haven’t seen it already, you might want to look at this thread: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/151609-international-student-aid.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/151609-international-student-aid.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

3

<p>

That’s bs. (Take it from a fellow German with non-college-educated parents.) You are at a “disadvantage” because parents without a college education are less likely to engage you in intellectual activities when you are little and because they are less likely to pay for private tutoring if you struggle in middle and high school. That’s nothing compared to “disadvantaged” on an American scale, i.e. having to work 30 hours a week besides school to help feed your family which is living below the poverty line. So why did non-college-educated parents prevent you from studying again?</p>

<p>You ask us for suggestions for colleges but you give us nothing to go by: how much can you pay for college every year, including room and board (but not including health insurance, airfare, personal expenses)? Which colleges do you want to attend? Are there any which you don’t like (e.g. because of geographic location, size or the composition of their student body)? There are about 5000 colleges in the US and ignoring finances you would be a sure admit to 4900 of them. Should we list all of them? On the other hand, I suspect you are most interested in the top 100…? </p>

<p>Also, are you interested in need-based or merit-based aid? In order to get merit-based aid you will have to attend a college “below your league”. Before you opt for need-based aid, make sure that your parents are willing to contribute to your education to the fullest extend possible because that’s what they would be expected to do. That may include tapping into retirement savings or taking out a mortgage on your home. If you want to get a ballpark figure for what colleges might expect you to pay, you can use Collegeboard’s financial aid calculator: [EFC</a> Calculator: How Much Money for College Will You Be Expected to Contribute?](<a href=“http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp]EFC”>http://apps.collegeboard.com/fincalc/efc_welcome.jsp) According to the financial aid staff at my college, you should get a valid estimate if you use it with Euro instead of $ (i.e. don’t convert the currency).</p>

<p>Have you heard of the ACT? It’s a test similar to the SAT but without vocab questions, and most if not all colleges accept it in lieu of the SAT. Look into it if you haven’t yet.</p>

<p>P.S. Your prospective major is called “political science”.</p>

4

<p>Thank you both for your helpful replies.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=b@r!um]
That’s bs. (Take it from a fellow German with non-college-educated parents.) You are at a “disadvantage” because parents without a college education are less likely to engage you in intellectual activities when you are little and because they are less likely to pay for private tutoring if you struggle in middle and high school. That’s nothing compared to “disadvantaged” on an American scale, i.e. having to work 30 hours a week besides school to help feed your family which is living below the poverty line. So why did non-college-educated parents prevent you from studying again?

[/quote]

I wrote that because there was a discussion about that lately and I thought it might help. Today they published a poll that young Gymnasium (=high school) absolvents are less likely to study because of the new tuition fees. And those are only 1000 EUR/year! That’s nothing compared to the US. I can afford around 1500-2000 EUR/year, that’s what my parents are willing to pay for me. I also want to work while studying as much as I can. At the moment I work in my vacations and earn money by playing the organ etc… But you see that I won’t be able to study without any financial aid or loans. I hope for some finaid-for-internationals colleges. I don’t know what merit-based finaid depends on.
Sorry for my ignorance about the circumstances in the US - but that’s also a reason why I want to study there: to get to know the country and such things. That’s nothing you learn much about in german English class. At least not at my school.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=b@r!um]
You ask us for suggestions for colleges but you give us nothing to go by: how much can you pay for college every year, including room and board (but not including health insurance, airfare, personal expenses)? Which colleges do you want to attend? Are there any which you don’t like (e.g. because of geographic location, size or the composition of their student body)? There are about 5000 colleges in the US and ignoring finances you would be a sure admit to 4900 of them. Should we list all of them? On the other hand, I suspect you are most interested in the top 100…?

[/quote]

I have health insurance here in Germany, I don’t know, whether/how much they will pay for costs from the US. Of course I’m looking for colleges offering the best tuition.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=Andale]

I think it would be helpful to know a little more about the type of school you have in mind - large university? small LAC? Big city or more rural? Any particular geographic area?

[/quote]

I prefer a big city. Maybe East Coast, New Hampshire down to Virginia. Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois aren’t bad, either.
Thank you for your help, Andale.</p>

<p>I have also already thought about the ACT but the test dates are quite rare. Next test date would be 12-13-2008. I think I’ll take it.</p>

5

<p>I will send you a PM. There are just a few things I would like to address here though because they might be interesting for more people:</p>

<p>-

I think we misunderstood each other. “Study” means “lernen” in German and not “studieren” (= going to college). If you look back, you said that students from non-college educated parents are less likely to study (= sit down and do their homework) and I wanted to point out that that’s incorrect. Either way it’s not going to help you because that’s a statistic about a general phenomenon, not a personal obstacle you had to face. (If you were treated for cancer while working 30 hours a week to pay your medical bills and trying to keep up with school work, <em>that</em> might give you an advantage.)</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Double-check with your health insurance that you have coverage in the States because most health insurances won’t cover you outside of Europe. A greater number of German insurances will pay for repatriation, but you might want more coverage than that… FYI, health coverage in the States runs at $1000-$2000 a year and most insurances for international students do not cover dental visits and have deductibles and co-pays (e.g. you have to pay the first $100 of every medical bill yourself and then the insurance will cover 80% of the remaining bill).</p></li>
<li><p>Make sure to be extra careful about finances. 2000 Euro a year will cover personal expenses (travel, books, entertainment, toiletries etc) but nothing beyond that. Also be aware that housing and food costs are a lot higher in the States: Expect to pay around 3 times as much for food as you would in Germany. Housing costs will vary a lot by location but it is safe to assume that rent plus utilities in East cost cities will be significantly more than $300 a month, which would have been my college housing budget in a medium-sized city in Southern Germany. </p></li>
</ul>

<p>Most American cities do not have public transportation, so you either have to live in college dorms (with room and board as much as $10,000 a year, and you have to move out during breaks), within walking/biking distance from campus (where rooms are more expensive due to high demand) or you need a car (expensive as well). Campus jobs typically pay $7 to $10 an hour before taxes and you may not work for more than 20 hours a week (most students work less than 10). In particular, don’t expect to cover housing and food with a campus job because chances are it’s not going to happen… </p>

<p>If you get financial aid or a scholarship be aware that money beyond tuition is taxed at a 14% rate. For example, if a college gives you a free room in a dorm and a free meal plan when room and board would have been $10,000 a year, you will have to pay $1400 in taxes at the end of the year.</p>

<p>I am telling you all of this not to discourage you, but because I think it is very important you know the financial circumstances of your endeavor. Quite frankly, I was surprised by the astronomical prices for “basic” items like food, housing and health care. (On the other hand, “luxury” items are a lot cheaper in the States than they are in Germany!)</p>

6

<p>B@r!um -</p>

<p>You rock!</p>

7

<p>

She really does.</p>

<p>

OK, that was one of those “false friend” mistakes.
Is there some chance that my unusual hobbies (organ) might help me? Maybe someone needs an organist for the college chapel…
I’ve looked into the “international student aid” thread - all the colleges offering FinAid for internationals are quite competitive, and the colleges with need-blind admission are even harder to get in.</p>

<p>Furthermore I got my subject test scores today.
MathI 660
Ph 680
Spa 700
Not what I expected. I knew that Math was bad, but I can’t imagine what was wrong with Spanish. Physics could have been better, but it was not that bad if you consider that there were a few questions we didn’t even have in school. Anyway, definitely retaking math along with the SATI and the ACT.</p>

<p>Is there a chance for me to get into any of the finAid or even need-blind colleges?</p>

<p>

OK, I’ll just eat iPods instead of bread! :wink:
I’ll look after the financing issues. I’m pretty sure that I will get enough support if I make it to get into a good college.</p>

8

<ol>
<li>

Question still on stack. Colleges:<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/151609-international-student-aid.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/151609-international-student-aid.html&lt;/a&gt;

[spoiler]
Some of the more interesting
Schools with Awards to More than 150 Students</li>
</ol>

<p>Clark Univ. (MA)
Eastern Michigan Univ. (MI)
Harvard (MA)
Illinois Inst. of Tech. (IL)
Marquette Univ. (WI)
MIT (MA)
Mount Holyoke College (MA)
Princeton (NJ)
Univ. of Bridgeport (CT)
Univ. of Pennsylvania ¶
Univ. of South Florida (FL)</p>

<p>Schools with Awards to 100-149 Students</p>

<p>Brown Univ. (RI)
Calvin College (MI)
Dartmouth (NH)
Eckerd College (FL)
Florida Inst. of Tech. (FL)
Georgia Southern Univ. (GA)
Oberlin (OH)
Smith College (MA)
Stanford (CA)
Texas Christian Univ. (TX)
Tri-State Univ. (IN)
Univ. of Miami (FL)
Univ. of Rochester (NY)
Yale (CT)</p>

<p>Schools with Awards to 50-99 Students</p>

<p>Allegheny College ¶
California Lutheran (CA)
Columbia Univ. (NY)
Cornell Univ. (NY)
George Wash. Univ. (DC)
Lawrence Univ. (WI)
Lynn Univ. (FL)
Maharishi Intl. Univ. (IA)
Rochester Inst. of Tech. (NY)
St. Johns College (MD)
St. Lawrence Univ. (NY)
St. Olaf College (MN)
Trinity College (CT)
US International Univ. (CA)
Washington College (MD)
Washington Univ. (MO)</p>

<p>Schools with Awards to 15-49 Students</p>

<p>Albright College ¶
Amherst College (MA)
Bates College (ME)
CalTech (CA)
Colgate Univ. (NY)
Hamilton College (NY)
Hampshire College (MA)
Johns Hopkins (MD)
Lafayette College ¶
Michigan State Univ. (MI)
Occidental College (CA)
Swarthmore College ¶
Thomas Aquinas Coll. (CA)
Univ. of Chicago (IL)
Vassar College (NY)
Williams College (MA)</p>

<p>Need-blind (according to b@r!um):
Harvard
MIT
Middlebury
Princeton
Williams
Yale[/spoiler]</p>

<ol>
<li>How am I supposed to calculate my GPA?</li>
</ol>

9

<p>Most of us are well aware of this list (and its limitation - unless you plan on applying for athletic scholarships or are fine with half-tuition scholarships), and there are actually a few more need-blind colleges than that.</p>

<p>But why did you post it?</p>

<p>Re GPA, you can calculate it pretty much any way you want to as long as you don’t change the scale that your grades are on.</p>

10

<p>I really don’t want to be mean, but with a 1710/2400 SAT and 700-680-660 subject test scores, your chances at need-blind colleges are rather dim, as are your chances of close-to-full aid at most other colleges…</p>

11

<p>

I wanted to support those who don’t know all of the colleges, e.g. people like me. I didn’t know colleges like St. Olaf or Thomas Aquinas before.
I didn’t want it to appear in its full length. Normally the [spoiler]-tag would have replaced the list by a button. Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to work on this board. More unfortunately, there isn’t something like an “edit” button, either.</p>

<p>I took the “need-blind” list from your post in the finaid thread, ignoring the “at least”.</p>

<p>

OK, I already feared that. However, I’m going to retake the tests, with hopefully better scores. How important are the scores really? And how would my chances be if we didn’t look on the test scores?</p>

12

<p>You can edit your post, but only in the first 20 minutes after you posted it. And better post only a link to an outside website; copying an entire article might raise some copyright issues.</p>

<p>Ignoring your test scores, I see an above-average-but-not-outstanding student with a rigorous course load and average involvement. If you didn’t need financial aid, you would get into some decent colleges. However, you lack an “outstanding” quality that would make you an interesting candidate for the very top colleges or selective colleges with financial aid. Your test scores don’t help very much in that regard…</p>