<p>ROTFL!! ten characters</p>
<p>afadad,</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
And you are saying that the IB program is the UN's instrument for indoctrinating our children into being the stewards of this "One world government"?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Give that man a cigar. Yup. You finally got it.</p>
<p>And you don't consider yourself a conspiracy theorist? Enjoy your life. I really feel sad for you.</p>
<p>Nope. I'm a realist. Please don't feel sorry for me, afadad. I have a great life. If I were to die tomorrow I could say I've lived a satisfying, loving, responsible, interesting, life. I was a Girl Scout who believes in the motto "Be prepared". I'm proud to be a God loving taxpaying American who has tended the land and a home for over 30 years. There are a lot of people who DO appreciate me, you know. In fact, one nice couple just wrote a Letter to the Editor about me. Would you like to see it? (the last one):
The</a> Leader - The North Shore's Leading Weekly</p>
<p>And yes dear readers. After 3321 felt compelled to blather about everywhere else that I post, I did confuse her with another forum where someone had posted my real name. So now you have my real name as provided by me personally, I am Lisa. </p>
<p>Clearly you can never accuse me of being a member of Anonymous ;-)</p>
<p>Now you'll excuse me. I'm watching O'Reilly and looking forward to Hannity's interview with Blagojevich.</p>
<p>Well, I'm glad you're happy Observer. So I guess if we are both happy, then there are no problems. I am curious if you ever sat in on an IB class? Do you have any personal friends who's kids went through the ENTIRE IB program? (At least high school level). Ever spoken to the principle of the school or the IB coordinator? I'm just trying to figure out your "Expertise" with the IB program. Other than other people's writings.</p>
<p>I have experience with the Department of Defense Dependent School system. (Part of the model in which the IB program was modeled from). I have experience with families/friends who's children went to the "American School" overseas because their parent worked for a company overseas. I have experience with the public and private school system in numerous states. And of the 14 countries I have lived and/or worked in, I have direct experience with the school system in 4 of those countries. But for the life of me, I can't understand what part of the IB program you are convinced is taking away our children's nationalism? I already broke down all the classes, TOK, CAS, etc... What part is it? I believe from one of your earlier posts, that you said you have absolutely no direct experience with the IB program. You can't say the ENTIRE program is evil and anti-american. That's not possible. I.e. Calculus is Calculus in any language and in any country. Same with most all of the classes. I agreed that History could be a class that could be the subject for debate. Maybe even some of the social science classes. But what is it. Please; pray tell.</p>
<p>OK...I GIVE UP ON THIS ON THIS THREAD. I don't see how all this "truth" has anything to do with the thread I started. If anyone wants access to the research I have done,
please send me a message on College Confidential and I will respond.</p>
<p>ObserverNY....Thanks so much for the disinformation and taking over this forum, it did nothing to assist in my attempts to get facts from those that have taken IB, I had to get them elsewhere.</p>
<p>Lastly, for all those that helped with the original thread, thank you for contributing.</p>
<p>If you noticed OP, not many of the older CCer's contributed comments. Every couple of years this topic is brought up and ends similarly. Yawn.</p>
<p>afadad</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I am curious if you ever sat in on an IB class?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Nope. </p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Do you have any personal friends who's kids went through the ENTIRE IB program? (At least high school level).
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Yup. Full DP, senior year. And her daughter has special needs and has been unable to get accommodations from IBO for extended time on the exams. Our school has less than 20 full DPers......oh yeah, HOW MANY DPers were there in your school again? 7? You never did answer my question. That's the 3rd time I'm asking you. But typical of anyone who supports IB, when it comes to revealing data that doesn't look so good, you forget, you don't recall, you don't know........ how convenient.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
Ever spoken to the principle of the school
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>You know, the IB students who tried to get me fired from my job at the paper didn't know the difference between principle and Principal either. I tried to talk to him. I was his worst nightmare. I had the audacity to pass out flyers on Open House night telling parents about an upcoming IB Information Night that the district was hoping nobody would show up for. He threatened to arrest me. I dared him. I said me being led away in handcuffs would make a great front page for next week's Leader. He chickened out. You can find both of us in Chapter 45 of Jay Mathews book Supertest.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
or the IB coordinator?
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>Our district went through 4 IB Coordinators in 3 years. The most recent one is a morbidly obese gentleman with overactive sweat glands. I wouldn't even venture to approach him because with my luck, the guy would have a heart attack on the spot and I'd get blamed for killing him.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I don't have an objection to an IB charter or stand-alone magnet program being offered to students from across a county.
[/quote]
This statement hardly seems consistent with your general attacks on IB as a "cult" and as an improper way for a public school system to spend its money. For what it's worth, I don't think full IB is a good fit for a lot of students, and I would also consider it a bad idea to make it the only curriculum in a school, or even the only advanced curriculim.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>Interesting statement. I'll explain my position from two perspectives. The first is as an American, I believe in having choices. The right of one person to a choice, should never deprive another person of theirs. If there are students and parents who want the IB program that badly, then it could be available to them either in a private school or a charter/magnet school. In this manner, it neither imposes itself on general public high schools nor eliminates the "choice" for those who want it. It has to stand alone on its own merits and popularity. If no one chooses it after a number of years, it will close. If it is overwhelmingly popular, then there will be a waiting list to get in. I predict the former in most cases.</p>
<p>Secondly, the value of the program, as heralded by IBNA's former Regional Director, is LOST unless one does the full diploma. Now I don't know about you, but when my doctor tells me, "Take this anti-biotic for the FULL ten days", it seems to me that there must be a very legitimate reason behind such a warning. The results out of Singapore prove that offering only the full IB diploma is the way to achieve massive success rates with the programme.</p>
<p>Whatever IBNA says, it is my observation that the interconnectedness of the IB curriculum is overstated. The individual courses, it seems to me, are well-constructed and don't really require the other parts of the curriculum to make them valuable. On the other hand, I think that a major part of the value of IB is in the EE and TOK, which somebody taking the full diploma might not do. Certainly, a high school using only AP could institute something similar to the EE, or even TOK, but most don't.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
On the other hand, I think that a major part of the value of IB is in the EE and TOK, which somebody taking the full diploma might not do.
[/QUOTE]
</p>
<p>I'm afraid you've got it backwards, my friend. TOK and the 4,000 word essay are ONLY available to full IB Diploma candidates. So again, if someone considers those to be the two "superior" components of IB, only a tiny minority of students are actually "benefitting" from taking them.</p>
<p>Of COURSE schools can introduce more writing assignments, longer research projects, 20 page term papers. Why aren't they? Why isn't grammar being taught the way it was when I was in high school? Do they need to buy an expensive Swiss Miss program to be able to do those things? I think not.</p>
<p>Observer; for someone who considers themselves SO INFORMED; you really do have a problem with basic comprehension; Don't you? Yes, you've asked me numerous times HOW MANY IB students we had that received the diploma. And yet, NUMEROUS TIMES (Do I need to collect all the posts for you) I have said that I DO NOT HAVE THAT INFORMATION!!!!!!! I know about my kids and many of their friends; but I DON'T KNOW THE TOTAL NUMBER IN OUR SCHOOL. I even asked you if you wanted me to "MAKE UP SOME NUMBERS" just because you keep asking. All this proves; MANY TIMES OVER; is that you only hear what you WANT to hear. That you interpret how you WANT it to mean instead of how the poster MEANS it to say. Sorry, but I can't work with people who aren't willing to see both sides of something. </p>
<p>I've told you numerous times of areas that I believe you have a valid concern, and is definitely open for debate. Yet, I've also asked you NO LESS THAN 3 times to tell me how many of the IB classes are negatively affecting our children, and you won't even discuss that. My opinion is that you know SO VERY LITTLE about the IB program, that you're just a conspiracy theorist who won't look at any possibility of the program having any positive merit. But you're so quick to point out Typos. You are something else.</p>
<p>You don't want to debate. You only want to argue and push your position on everyone else. Well have at it. You're definitely wasting my time. If anyone wants to discuss the original poster's topic; of how IB has helped (In my case, my children) in their continued college education and eventual employment; feel free to post. I would be quite happy to discuss it. I am even open to discussing with people with an opposing viewpoint. As long as we can discuss in a back/forth; pro/con; and mutual respect for opinions; then I think we can all grow and expand our knowledge of this topic. But simply holding the position that the program is totally Un-American and it's the UN's tool for destroying our government; with absolutely no proof and written by someone with absolutely no first hand experience; is definitely not worth mine or anyone else's time.</p>
<p>Don't get hysterical afadad. If you DON'T KNOW, you might want to ask yourself, "Why don't I know? Why doesn't my kid's school make that kind of information which my taxdollars are paying for - public?" </p>
<p>According to your friend, teachers don't like it so in your mind "it's a union thing". Parents across America don't like it so in your mind "it's a conspiracy thing". I've shown you UNESCO/IBO documentation and you say there's absolutely no proof. </p>
<p>None are so blind as those who refuse to see. I cannot help you.</p>
<p>31,285 - 79.17% received the diploma (lowest score 24 and highest score 45)
8,229 - 20.84% failed to receive the diploma (lowest score 1 and highest score 40)
39,514 - total candidates in 2008</p>
<p>Those who received a total score of 24+ and failed to get their diploma did not have their CAS, EE or TOK papers turned in.</p>
<p>This is for all of IB and it is right off of their website and yearly statistical report. They also have statistics broken out by IB Regions at a high level and by each subject at the macro level.</p>
<p>And I have also gathered the stats for our county and each of the IB schools in our county. </p>
<p>Oh, and btw, I have done the same with AP. I have Overall, State and also have gathered county and school figures within the county.</p>
<p>I am trying to make an informed research analysis.</p>
<p>31,285 - 79.17% received the diploma (lowest score 24 and highest score 45)
8,229 - 20.84% failed to receive the diploma (lowest score 1 and highest score 40)
39,514 - total candidates in 2008</p>
<p>Those who received a total score of 24+ and failed to get their diploma did not have their CAS, EE or TOK papers turned in.</p>
<p>This is for all of IB and it is right off of their website and yearly statistical report. They also have statistics broken out by IB Regions at a high level and by each subject at the macro level.</p>
<p>And I have also gathered the stats for our county and each of the IB schools in our county. </p>
<p>Oh, and btw, I have done the same with AP. I have Overall, State and also have gathered county and school figures within the county.</p>
<p>I am trying to make an informed research analysis.</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure Lisa's point is that your local public school generally doesn't make the number of kids receiving the IB diploma available, because there are so few of them. afadad, you didn't pick up on this -- that's why she kept asking you! Of course you don't know, because the schools themselves are unlikely to provide that information. I'm sure that was her point, and I'm even more sure she'll correct me if I'm wrong!</p>
<p>That is certainly true in my district, which has had IB for well over a decade in three or four schools (I don't remember at the moment), and has produced NO diploma recipients recently, and possibly ever. That I can't tell for certain when/whether there have been diploma recipients underscores her point.</p>
<p>The neighboring district has done a much, much better job with their IB programs; they are truly excellent. I'm sure Lisa would approve of the way both my district* and the neighboring district have implemented IB; students can choose among IB or any number of other programs. IB is in certain schools, usually in very large high schools which offer AP and other programs as well, and kids travel to those schools if the schools are not their home school. IB is not the only "toughest curriculum" offered; students have choices.</p>
<ul>
<li>She'd approve of the way it's offered, while perhaps decrying how poorly-run the program is in my district. Since we seem to do it so poorly here, and there is so little interest in it, I suspect we would do better not to offer it at all and spend the money elsewhere.</li>
</ul>
<p>^^ our IB school is very open about it. Last data (for 2007) shows 43 out of 51 candidates received full diploma, for a 84% success rate.</p>
<p>rwlavalley; thank you for the detailed stats. Observer just can't understand. Maybe the reason I don't know the TOTAL number of students in my kid's school that received the IB diploma is cause I NEVER ASKED!!!! Maybe it's because I DIDN'T CARE!!!! Maybe it's because I was concerned with how MY CHILDREN WERE DOING!!!! And being my Son DID RECEIVE the diploma; that was good enough for me. And that because my daughter DIDN'T REVCEIVE the diploma; was for reasons that I am confident that I know. So again; that was good enough for me.</p>
<p>As for Unesco; I guess I just don't have a problem. I don't see their involvement in assisting countries in improving the health, education, etc... of it's people as a "One world Government" act. Especially when their web site talks about helping improve education, and it say; and I quote; "UNESCO supports national efforts to meet this demand, along with improving access to secondary education and enhancing its quality." EMPHASIZE THE WORD NATIONAL. </p>
<p>I have no problem with a world organization, such as the UN, assisting countries "THAT ASK FOR HELP" in trying to improve their education, health, etc... I do have a problem if the UN or similar gets involved with another countries politics, laws, etc... Although, there are times when the UN could be used as an arbitrator between 2 nations having diplomatic, military, etc... issues. Again, as an arbitrator, BOTH SIDES would have to agree. But I don't see the UN, UNESCO, etc... as being a naturally evil entity.</p>
<p>This is where Observer wants to argue; and NOT debate. To her, it's all evil and there are NO MERITS to such an organization. There is good and bad in EVERYTHING. Including Cocaine, guns, and many other things some people consider evil. It's what you do with it that makes it bad or good. Observer refuses to believe that there are any good attributes. Therefor, anything that is even remotely associated with such an entity must be evil. I don't believe that way. But if that is a person's position, and that because of the association there CAN'T be any good come from it; then there is no room for debate. </p>
<p>Any debate with the IB program or other programs would first have to be a debate that the UN, UNESCO, etc... is not trying to establish a one world government and trying to destroy the constitution of the United States or any other country's sovereignty. Once THAT DEBATE is concluded; pro or con; the associate programs such as the IB program will automatically fall into place. I.e. If the world changed to Solar, Wind, hydro, etc... energy 100% BECAUSE OF ECONOMIC reasons or because of Diminishing Resources; then there wouldn't be any need to DEBATE GLOBAL WARMING DUE TO FOSSIL FUELS. It would be a non-issue. If the UN/etc... is proven to be destroying the USA and other country's nationalism; and the IB program is proven to be the UN's direct program; then there wouldn't be a need to debate. The answer would be obvious. However, we aren't there. We are debating the WRONG topic.</p>
<p>[You know, the IB students who tried to get me fired from my job at the paper didn't know the difference between principle and Principal either. I tried to talk to him. I was his worst nightmare. I had the audacity to pass out flyers on Open House night telling parents about an upcoming IB Information Night that the district was hoping nobody would show up for. He threatened to arrest me. I dared him. I said me being led away in handcuffs would make a great front page for next week's Leader. He chickened out.]</p>
<p>Wheew this person is everyone's nightmare. I would avoid even avoid responding to her posts if I were you. It's hopeless. It seems she is devoting her life to this "cause", kind of like Don Quixote.</p>