International Baccalaureate College Graduates

Parents Forum
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<p>Can anyone tell me what all this conspiracy theory stuff has to do with collecting informaiton about people who have actually taken IB? The authors of the latest article clearly have never taken IB (PYP, MYP or Diploma) or they would not have made the statements they made.</p>

<p>And I have been a scout leader (both Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts) and I believe they are excellent programs. </p>

<p>It is funny that one of the merit badges is on citizenship of the world.....they must be part of the conspiracy. And another merit badge deals with the enivronment and conservation of our resources...oh my, it is already contaminated. </p>

<p>We should begin another website THE TRUTH ABOUT BOY SCOUTS and see if we can get that fine program condemned and stopped from meeting at our public schools and churches.</p>

162

<p>afadad,</p>

<p>Your post is so full of misinformation I don't know where to begin. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
yet in most states/classes, you will find that it's the NEA and teachers who seem to be the most AGAINST the IB program.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Really? Fascinating. In five years I have never come across a single article that would support that statement. What proof do you have and how many states do you consider "most"?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Also, IB doesn't start until 9th grade.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Again, a completely incorrect statement. There is the IB PYP (preK-5th grade) the IB MYP (6th grade-10th grade) and the IB DP (11th & 12th grades). </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
I don't think there is anything wrong with learning world history or world literature

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Are you implying that I DO think there is something wrong with that? Or that without IB, children can't be taught these things? Good grief, how bizarre. Are you AWARE that in IB History courses, even HL IB History courses, only the MOST RECENT 100 YEARS are covered? Were you aware of that fact? If your school wants students to cover more than the most recent 100 year period of history, then it has to pay extra for teachers to get together and rewrite the IB curriculum to fit their needs. Now why should a school pay extra for IB, only to have to rewrite the curriculum to meet individual State standards?</p>

<p>I stand by my assertion that IBO is a crappy company with a crappy product. The Welsh have just condemned IBO's actions calling them "disgusting" "devastating", "economically illiterate" and their reasoning "nonsense", If you want to invest a student's final two years of high school and your taxdollars in a company of 90 Eurocrats (worldwide) which willy nilly abandons 75% of its entire workforce after 20 years, well, that seems pretty foolish to me. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
An Assembly Government spokesman said: “Despite the shift in costs moving in Cardiff’s favour by 30% relative to Amsterdam, it has still opted for high-cost Amsterdam instead of low-cost Cardiff, it seems on prestige and image grounds.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Yup, image and prestige, it's what I've said from the very first time I started looking into IBO. The emperor has no clothes though, isn't that embarrassing? </p>

<p>WalesOnline</a> - News - Education News - International Baccalaureate’s relocation is slammed by Welsh Assembly Government</p>

<p>Btw, is that a biased article? I'm just curious because, you know, apparently I don't posses the same global wisdom that you have to be able to distinguish between something that is straight reporting of news and opinion.</p>

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<p>^The article also states that their reasoning has to do with the airports and transportation, which are better in Amsterdam than Cardiff.</p>

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<p>3321,</p>

<p>Riiiiiiiiiiiight. And are those airports and transportation any different than they have been for the past 20 years?</p>

<p>Btw, since the article included IBO's response and position, would you call the article fair and balanced? I'm just curious since the article is out of Wales and I really can't discern whether the Welsh government is Liberal or Conservative in nature (my disability when it comes to global awareness and internationalmindedness puts me at a disadvantage here)</p>

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<p>Observer; Re-read my post and don't read into it. I had said that "FORTUNATELY IN MY STATE"'; and you'll see the word "ALSO", which means IN MY STATE. That is when IB starts. Again, don't read into things.</p>

<p>As for the NEA; A friend of mine happens to be the president of the NEA in a prominent state. We've spoken many times about the IB program. He's mentioned his opinion and that of the NEA through discussions with his peers and national conventions. I've also solicited the opinion of many other teachers. The IB program doesn't seem to be the most popular among them. Probably a union thing. I'm not a big union fan, but much of my family has been union their entire life. So I can understand why they aren't fans of the IB program.</p>

<p>As for teaching history; as I said; our state requires certain state history and civics classes. Being IB doesn't start until 9th grade (IN OUR STATE); the students have been taught history. Maybe not to the level that you want, but they are taught.</p>

<p>The difference here is that you can't convince me of the evil of IB when I was involved with my kids for 7-8 years. I saw what it did for them. And even as the OP's unofficial poll shows, the vast majority of those who were involved also believed it was beneficial to them. I think part of the problem is that you are so against it that you are attracted to any and all writings that portray it in a negative manner and take it as gospel. That is natural. Just like pro-IB supporters would be attracted the other way. </p>

<p>When my daughter started the IB program, it was only the 2nd year that it was available in our high school. Maybe that inexperience is part of the reason she wasn't able to obtain the diploma. Partly because of he issues with taking standardized/final tests. But over the last 7-8 years, I've seen the program mature in our school. More and more of the students are staying with it, graduating and receiving the diploma, and getting a great college preparation. I admit that when we thought about getting my daughter in it, we were skeptical. It was 1 year old and I didn't know that much of it. I did a lot of research. I am very familiar with DODDS schools that was part of the basis for this concept. The made me feel better because I saw how good the department of defense dependent school system was in providing a standardized education to military children all over the world. I also saw on many college applications where they ask if AP classes or the IB program was available at the school and whether the applicant took those courses. So that made me realize that colleges were recognizing the program as being beneficial. (I personally don't CARE if a HIGH SCHOOL CLASS gives you college credit. Colleges give college credit. If a high school class does, great. If not, that's fine. As long as it's teaching the student and preparing them for advanced education).</p>

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<p>I think the issue is that the transportation and airports aren't any different in Cardiff:-) i.e. they needed improvements to make it more feasible for IBO. Since they remain as they have for 20 years, they are relocating.</p>

<p>It is hard to qualify "fair" in my opinion, which is why I object to the term "fair and balanced" in journalism. They did have quotes from both sides, which is seemingly balanced, however we all know quotes can be left out. Just think of movie reviews where there are dots..like, "great movie..." and they left off, "if you need to catch up on your sleep."</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
I think the issue is that the transportation and airports aren't any different in Cardiff:-) i.e. they needed improvements to make it more feasible for IBO.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Huh? Splain please. Both Amsterdam and Cardiff are International airports. Planes fly in, planes fly out, they both have Internet check-in, DHL serves both Cardiff and Amsterdam, and your statement implies that IBO has UNDERSERVED its customers for the PAST 20 YEARS! Oops.</p>

<p>What about IBO's company loyalty to 75% of its employees? Oh well, too bad, in the worst global economic climate in history, go find new jobs or relocate to Amsterdam where we will pay you the same but the cost of living is 30% higher. Leave your homes and family to follow IBO. Nice. Real nice.</p>

<p>What about not ****ing off the government of the country that has hosted IBO's operations for 20 years? To me that speaks to the total lack of integrity, character and ethical values on IBO's part and completely flies in the face of its stated educational mission:</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
The International Baccalaureate aims to develop inquiring, knowledgeable and caring young people who help to create a better and more peaceful world through intercultural understanding and respect.</p>

<pre><code>To this end the organization works with schools, governments and international organizations to develop challenging programmes of international education and rigorous assessment.

These programmes encourage students across the world to become active, compassionate and lifelong learners who understand that other people, with their differences, can also be right.

[/QUOTE]

</code></pre>

<p>Hypocrites. Buy what we preach, not what we do. Any credibility IBO may have acquired over the years as a "prestigious" organization should be stripped from them in the eyes of the world for this PR disaster. Stop spending American taxdollars on this organization. Stop buying their products. Put them out of business.</p>

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<p>I assumed you read all of the article you linked. Here is the quote I am referring to when I mentioned transportation issues that IBO raised: </p>

<p>“Transport links are very important and anyone who has travelled in Amsterdam will know they are first class. Cardiff International Airport has worked hard to improve but it is not Schiphol. Cardiff is two hours away from an international hub. This decision proves every effort must be made to develop transport services. WAG must focus on improving transport links into Wales rather than within it"</p>

<p>This "splains" what I meant.</p>

<p>There are many companies right here in the good 'ole USA that have relocated employees within the states, or simply outsourced jobs to places like India.</p>

<p>IBO's decision to relocate is not hypocritical; nothing you quoted demonstrates that they are hypocritical.</p>

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<p>3321,</p>

<p>Clearly you do not understand the definition of hypocrite:</p>

<p>hyp⋅o⋅crite
   /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hip-uh-krit] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
Origin:
1175–1225; ME ipocrite < OF < LL hypocrita < Gk hypokrits a stage actor, hence one who pretends to be what he is not, equiv. to hypokr(nesthai) (see hypocrisy ) + -tēs agent suffix</p>

<p>Cause and effect, 3321. If IBO was truly practicing what it preached, would the Welsh people and their government be upset? Not just upset, but using extremely harsh adjectives to describe their anger. IBO is NOT a peace making organization, it does NOT promote whirled peas and it causes controversy and divisiveness whenever its security is threatened or it abandons its responsibilities and loyalties. "Economically illiterate" was a beautiful term.</p>

<p>As to "two hours" away, huh?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Cardiff</a> International Airport :: Getting to/from the Airport
The airport is close to Rhoose in the Vale of Glamorgan, 12 miles west of Cardiff and 10 miles from junction 33 on the M4.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Ohhhhh, that must be IB time, 2 hours to travel 12 miles.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
There are many companies right here in the good 'ole USA that have relocated employees within the states, or simply outsourced jobs to places like India.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Many educational companies funded with American taxdollars? Really? Did The College Board do that? Textbook companies? I'm serious, I'm curious. Would you name them for me please?</p>

<p>Let's stick to a specific industry: American public education</p>

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<p>Observerny, I should stop because this is getting aggravating. I did not say educational companies, I said companies. Thanks for providing the definition of hypocrite, but it still doesn't demonstrate that IBO is hypocritical.</p>

<p>By the way, I did appreciate the pm where you said you were incorrect when you accused me of posting your name here. It would be nice since you claim to only report the facts that you posted that here, acknowledging that I didn't post your name.</p>

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<p>


</p>

<p>No, it does not promote that ;)</p>

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<p>I could sit down here and try to argue the point, argue over "fair and balanced", over the fact that IBO being affiliated to the UN doesn't reflect on the rigor of the curriculum (I can't believe you're making such a big deal over the fact they're relocating from Cardiff to Amsterdam), that to an outsider the APs have gross weaknesses anyway, that the fact that other programs are not "like APs" in scope, in depth, in rigor or in length does not make them inferior whether or not they are college level, college prep, pre-university, whatever...</p>

<p>... or I can stop reading this thread and stop feeling compelled to reply in defense of a college prep program I didn't even take. Buy. Pay for. Lo que sea. Ad</p>

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<p>I guess I see the ONLY debatable IB course being taught is History. Even then, I personally don't see a problem with it. Just that it "Could" be a debatable issue. Only because there are some that believe that MORE U.S. History should be taught. But there is no problem with an IB math class. (Math is universal). Same with IB chemistry, physics, and the other hard sciences. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with learning world literature, arts, music, etc... I believe those are important and exposure to the arts and literature is fantastic. I believe that learning a foreign language is also important and beneficial to our students. Even if they aren't fluent after graduating. Both my son and daughter were also afforded 2-3 electives each semester. They took classes with "Traditional" students such as computer classes, psychology, weight lifting, choir, AP classes, and many more. My son went to Boy's State, class officer, young republicans. Both kids did extra-curricular sports and activities.</p>

<p>IB's TOK was excellent. The student wrote the essays on the topic of their choosing. CAS hours taught the students to look outside of themselves. They did volunteer time; teaching children to read, baby sitting so young parents could finish school, helping the homeless and hungry, etc... All GREAT ENDEAVORS. </p>

<p>So, the ONLY areas of the IB program I can see that could be controversial, would be:
1) Some people have a problem that history classes are too global and not enough national history being taught.
2) Final tests are sent to another participating country for grading. That country could possibly be a foe of the United States and therefor be biased in grading our kid's work.
3) Most schools only offer the 9th-12th grade IB diploma and Pre-IB programs. Therefor, the IB can NOT be beneficial to all students. There's just too many kids that don't have what it takes to be in this program. If the school district had the IB program in all age groups, I honestly believe that almost any student could do well in it because they would start in the elementary school years before developing bad school habits.
4) Then there's the conspiracy theory group. That anything that is done on a global or international level must be trying to undermine our government, country, and way of life. This is interesting, considering that the USA has always aimed to promote democracy and many of our values throughout the world. What if we succeeded and the majority of the world moved to our political/individual beliefs and values? Would it then be wrong to have a "One World Government" if it was modeled after the constitution of the United States. Of course this is just a hypothetical, but it is an interesting scenario.</p>

<p>Anyway, except for the first three controversial points I listed, I really can't see anything about the IB program that is worthy of a debate. The overwhelming participants in the IB program have experienced more positives than negatives in the program. That speaks volumes compared to just theories and opinions. Especially from people who have no direct experience with the program. People who haven't taken the program, had their kids in the program, taught the program, or any other direct contact with the program.</p>

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<p>Wow. I can't believe you actually wrote this:</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Would it then be wrong to have a "One World Government" if it was modeled after the constitution of the United States

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT WOULD BE WRONG! Some critical thinking skills please, afadad............ WHY?</p>

<p>A. The U.S. Constitution does not provide for global takeover and imposition of Our Constitution on the rest of the world.</p>

<p>B. The One World Government will NOT be based on the U.S. Constitution but on the U.N. Charter</p>

<p>DO YOU SEE? Please, please tell me you can critically align these two facts.</p>

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<p>Please tell me that you can think outside the box. That I specifically said it was a "Theoretical". That I wasn't promoting or dismissing it. You sound like one of those people that won't let their children watch Harry Potter because you believe they WILL PRACTICE WITCHCRAFT. And we can't discuss the possibilities of aliens from outer space; or star trek with a United Federation of Planets; or any other hypothetical.</p>

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<p>Researcher2/3321</p>

<p>Can't explain that International 2 hours for 12 miles, eh?</p>

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<p>afadad,</p>

<p>And therein lies your major cognitive dysfunction. A UN controlled One World Government/World Bank is NOT theoretical, it is happening right here and now and it must be stopped.</p>

<p>Btw, my children have read Harry Potter, I personally dabbled in Witchcraft as a teen, and my husband and I saw a flying saucer way back in 1975. It is because I am the type of person who has an inquisitive mind that I have explored different "conspiracy theories" as you put it that I have been able to tell the truth from the rhetoric.</p>

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<p>observer,
I see no need to explain as I was simply citing IBO's reasoning from the article you linked. </p>

<p>You can't seem to own up to the mistake you made when you accused me of posting your name. Please post here that you not only confused me with someone else, it was an entirely different forum where your name was revealed.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
And therein lies your major cognitive dysfunction. A UN controlled One World Government/World Bank is NOT theoretical, it is happening right here and now and it must be stopped.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And you are saying that the IB program is the UN's instrument for indoctrinating our children into being the stewards of this "One world government"? Go ahead; admit it. You know you want to. Everyone here knows that is what you really think. That the whole purpose of the IB program is to dismantle the United States economy and form of government. At least we can let George Bush off the hook for the bailout funds; and also for Obama for continuing on with large government spending. It's all IB's fault.</p>