International Baccalaureate College Graduates

Parents Forum
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<p>I don;t know anything about Florida.
My son went to a school with a very long standing IB program and a smaller AP program. He did a combination of classes based on preference for teachers. We were not opposed to IB at all, but at his school some of the best teachers chose not to teach it as the program is so prescribed. </p>

<p>He did not graduate in the top 5% in his class. All those were kids who did full IB and thus had weighted grades for many, many classes.</p>

<p>His counselor said he made a big mistake not doing full IB because 'he is not doing the most difficult program.' He managed, somehow to get into an Ivy and 6 other great schools (of the 4 kids from his class who did 3 get into an Ivy had done exactly what he did- not full IB) and is graduating in May from that Ivy.</p>

<p>He is directed, globally aware, planful, organized, multilingual, passionate, caring, synthetic, optimistic, etc. He is the epitome of what an IB student should be, and somehow managed to get there, and an Ivy, without full IB.</p>

<p>I have never liked the idea that some arbitrary person in an office in Belgium presumably knows more about what my children should be learning and how they should be learning- or rather in thinking that that person knows any more or better than my children's fantastic teachers might have.</p>

<p>Anecdotal evidence is individual. Where is the real evidentiary base for this program or any other program,for that matter? Where are the head to head comparisons showing that given kids with the same profiles the IB produces a better student, or a better person? Can we be at all skeptical that a child in an international school in Baku and a kid in Brookline might not need a slightly different educational program?? Having floated around the periphery of international school education for 16 years I have seen advocates and trainers galore. Lots of good programs out there....</p>

<p>I am not suspicious of the IB, I don't think they are out to control the minds of our children...I just wonder how people will react when the next great, saviour of the educational universe comes along....</p>

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<p>I JUST KEEP HOPING WE CAN DISCUSS Whirled Peas AGAIN!</p>

<p>(This thread could use some comedic relief).</p>

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<p>I agree that the choice depends on the child and the school. I would strongly suggest that you contact the IB coordinator and ask all of your questions. The issue of "most rigorous" is something you should consider. Not particularly fair, but it can't be pretended away. As far as college credit, that's a personal issue as well. It happens to be that my daughter's dream school offers sophomore standing with certain scores. That's a big deal to us because her dream program offers a five-year master's, which means that if she's admitted as a sophomore, she would graduate in four years with a master's degree. We aren't rolling in dough, so we do consider that. Also, at some of the bigger or state schools, certain scores (just like in AP) would let her place out of the lower-level courses and possibly have less situations where her progress is slowed up by lack of availability of classes. She'll also taking 6 AP classes to cover her bases. The reason we chose IB for her is the extended essay and CAS. Her particular talent is as a truly spectacular researcher and writer. Her extended essay, of which she'll submit a draft with certain applications, is not just unique, scholarly and impressively written, but it's the object of incredible joy for her. She loves this and it shows. If any college wants to know what kind of scholar she is, they need only read her "big" papers. If they then want her, fine; if not, that's fine too. But they can't truly "know" her without seeing what kind of writer and researcher she is. Just like an athlete couldn't be recruited without being scouted.</p>

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<p>I appreciate all of you taking the time with your responses.
I sounds like it is really a personal decision that should be made student by student. It also sounds like neither IB or AP should be held up as the "Gold Standard". Unfortunately, at our school a student such as my son is considered to be "lesser" because he is in all Honors classes and not MYP. Maybe he will end up doing the IB program in 11th and 12th, but I am afraid there may be some requirement that won't be met along the way. At 13, children do not necessarily know where they want to go to college, nor should they be expected to.<br>
What concerns me is that so much emphasis is being placed on IB at our school, and resources, that the rest of the student body, including Honors students, are not getting the kind of quality of education they deserve. I went to prep school where everyone got a great education. Shouldn't the public schools be striving for that instead of bringing in special programs that are separatist?</p>

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<p>anitaw; if you're looking for a Head to Head comparison between the IB program and AP classes; in the hopes of determining which one is better; then that's not possible. The 2 are totally different with totally different objectives. You can't compare the two.</p>

<p>Unfortunately, there are a lot of people; especially the Anti-IB crowd that wants to compare the two as though they are in direct competition with each other. And that the IB program isn't needed because the AP classes are available. This is pure garbage. Don't fall into that trap. It USE TO BE that the AP program was a place where students who had INDIVIDUAL STRENGTHS in certain topics could take classes in those topics and ADVANCE THEMSELVES further in those areas. Chances are, when they got to college, they were going to major in something where that area they are/were STRONG IN and took AP classes in, was going to help them be advanced in. That was the original PURPOSE and it was very good program. Unfortunately over the years, the AP classes simply became a place where students could take the classes, be taught the test, and HOPE TO SCORE HIGH ENOUGH that they received college credit. In other words; parents, students, teachers, and proponents cared more about students getting college credit while in high school. Not that the AP classes still don't have a lot of great value. They do for students who excel in certain areas. Unfortunately, the main emphasis has changed to getting college credit. And students are taking a lot of AP classes; not because they are good at it; but in the hopes of scoring high enough and that a college will give them credit.</p>

<p>The IB program is as the name applies a program. It is designed to prepare you for college. The fact that many colleges ALSO give college credit for many of the classes being taken, is just an additional bonus. However, this is a complaint that many ANTI-IB folks bring up. That the IB program doesn't get as many College Credits as the AP classes and therefor is bad. Well that isn't the purpose of the IB program and NEITHER WAS IT ORIGINALLY of the AP classes. College credit is given out by colleges not the IB program or AP. It is a college's way of MARKETING to attract STUDENTS to pay their tuition and go to that school. Neither AP or IB should be getting college credit. It is the college's way of giving "Cash Back" and "Rebates" like a CAR DEALER. They want you to go to school there. Why do you think MOST Ivy league and high end schools DON'T give credit for ANY AP OR IB classes. Because people already want to go there. They don't need to give you DISCOUNTS. AP and IB classes don't get college credit BECAUSE THEY ARE COLLEGE LEVEL AND DESERVE IT. They get college credit because the school giving the college credit is trying to SELL YOU THEIR COLLEGE. The purpose of the IB program is to make yo prepared for college; prepared for life in general; make you a well rounded person not just in one subject but in all subjects and in your community, athletics, and as the whole person.</p>

<p>If you look at competitive universities, most of the application is looking for well rounded students. The IB program helps make you well rounded. It gives you advanced academics as well as other areas. The cas hours easily allow you to answer yes to many application questions. </p>

<p>So, if all you care about are individual subjects; to excel in because you like them; or because you ONLY care about getting college credit from a school you know will give it; then AP classes or individual IB classes is definitely the way to go. If you care or want a program that advances you in all areas and not just in selected classes; and you want a program that PREPARES you for college and advance you and not just gives you some college credit; then the IB program is probably more to what you want. If you are content with your academics, community, and social, ec, life; then a traditional education is probably all you need. Different classes and styles of education for different people.</p>

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<p>Update on Survey of College Preparedness of International Baccalaureate Graduates
147 Respondents of 535 sent questionnaires, Respondents who said they were IB graduates on their profiles of various social networking sites
Demographics of Respondents
Gender # %
F 87 59.2%
M 60 40.8%
Grand Total 147 </p>

<p>What kind of IB Education did they receive
Type of IB Education # %
Certificate 17 11.6%
Full Diploma 128 87.1%
Some IB - No Certificates 2 1.4%
Grand Total 147 </p>

<p>Where did they do their IB schooling
Location of IB School # %
FL 30 21.4%
MD 16 11.4%
CO 15 10.7%
CA 14 10.0%
VA 12 8.6%
WA 5 3.6%
KS 4 2.9%
IL 4 2.9%
GA 4 2.9%
TX 3 2.1%
Switzerland 4 2.9%
PA 3 2.1%
OH 3 2.1%
WY 2 1.4%
OR 2 1.4%
NY 2 1.4%
NC 2 1.4%
MN 2 1.4%
Wis 1 0.7%
WI 1 0.7%
VT 1 0.7%
Turkey 1 0.7%
Norway 1 0.7%
NJ 1 0.7%
MS 1 0.7%
Jordan 1 0.7%
Japan 1 0.7%
Ireland 1 0.7%
Finland 1 0.7%
Canada 1 0.7%
Asia 1 0.7%
Grand Total 140
7 respondents did not provide location of their IB School yet.</p>

<p>1) Did IB help in college prep? What helped? Writing skills? Study skills?
IB Help with College # %
N 5 3.4%
Y 142 96.6%
Grand Total 147
What helped skill learned in IB helped with College?
Writing Skills learned or improved in IB – 104 of 147 respondents (71%)
Study Skills learned or improved in IB – 96 of 147 respondents (65%)
Workload Readiness – College was similar or easier than IB – 68 of the 147 respondents (46%)
Time Management Skills learned or improved in IB – 42 of 147 respondents (29%)
Critical and Analytical Thinking Skills learned or improved in IB – 37 of 147 respondents (25%)
Reading Skills learned or improved in IB – 10 of the 147 respondents (7%)
Global Perspective of IB – 2 of the 147 respondents (1.3%)
Group Work Skills learned or improved in IB – 1 of the 147 respondents (.7%)</p>

<p>2) Did you receive college credit or advancement for your IB work? Did it help you to be advanced?</p>

<p>College Credit Received (145 of 147 answered with specific amounts of credit)
Overall 73.1% received some credit.</p>

<p>No Credit received – 39 of 145 respondents (26.9%)
1 – 9 Credits received – 28 0f 145 respondents (19.3%)
10 – 19 Credits received – 41 of 145 respondents (28.3%)
20 – 29 Credits received - 8 of the 145 respondents (5.5%)
30 – 45 Credits received – 29 of the 145 respondents (20%)</p>

<p>Advancement
118 of 147 stated that they received advancement through credits or placement tests (82%)</p>

<p>3) Did you graduate from college? What school? Or if still in college what was your GPA after 4 semesters?</p>

<p>95 of the 147 respondents were graduates of a college (64.6%)
10 of the 95 graduated in less than 4 years
51 of the 147 respondents were still in college (34.7%)
38 of the 51 were carrying a GPA greater than or equal to 3.5
1 of the 147 respondents did not graduate from college
University Attended or Attending #
University of Florida 5
University of Miami 4
Carnegie Mellon 4
University of Virginia 4
William and Mary 4
Boston University 3
Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo 3
University of Chicago 3
Duke 2
Colorado State University 2
Cornell 2
Creighton 2
Eckerd College 2
Pennsylvania State University 2
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute 2
Tufts University 2
UCLA 2
University of Colorado 2
University of South Florida 2
University of St Thomas 2
US Air Force Academy 2
Washington University in St. Louis 2
American 1
Amherst College 1
Barnard College 1
Berkley 1
Bilkent University 1
Bowie State 1
Brigham Young University 1
Cal Tech 1
Colorado School of Mines 1
CSU Sacramento 1
Dartmouth College 1
DeirdreTours 1
Did not finish College 1
Duke University 1
Ealham 1
Emory Riddle 1
Evergreen State College 1
Florida Atlantic University 1
Florida International University 1
George Mason University 1
George Washington University 1
Georgia Tech 1
Harvard 1
Haverford College 1
John Hopkins University 1
Kent State University 1
Mary Washington 1
Middlebury College 1
MIT 1
Morehouse 1
MS Community College System & UA in tuscaloosa 1
New College of Florida 1
New York University 1
North Carolina State University 1
North Central Minnesota 1
Northwestern University 1
Occidental College 1
Oregon State University 1
Pacific 1
Princeton 1
Royal Melbourne Institute 1
Sarah Lawrence 1
St. Mary's College of MD 1
Stanford 1
Stetson University 1
Swarthmore 1
The University of Florida 1
Tulane University 1
UC Santa Cruz 1
Univeristy of Florida 1
Univeristy of Maryland 1
Universitu of Virginia 1
University of British Columbia 1
University of California Berkeley 1
University of Colorado - Colorado Springs 1
University of FL 1
University of Georgia 1
University of Illinois - UC 1
University of Kansas 1
University of Maryland 1
University of Mississippi 1
University of North Florida 1
University of Oslo 1
University of Pennsylvania 1
University of South California 1
University of Tampa 1
University of Texas 1
University of VA 1
University of Vermont 1
University of WA 1
University of Wisonsin 1
University of Wyoming 1
US Coast Guard Academy 1
Vassar 1
Virginia Commonwealth University 1
Virginia Community College System 1
Virginia Tech 1
Wake Forest 1
Washington & Lee University 1
Wellesley College 1
Whitman College 1
William & Mary 1
Williamette 1
Williams 1
Grand Total 142
5 respondents did not specifically list the university they attended.</p>

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<p>THANKS for posting all the details, great information!</p>

328

<p>Your welcome.</p>

<p>I did not put down that 18 of the respondents who received credit from both IB and AP but is was not possible to separate how much from each program.</p>

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<p>I am still trying to get more results for this survey so if others would like to contribute, please see the original 6 questions.</p>

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<p>I have a similiar post about Advance Placement but so far I have not received more than a handful of responses and those taking Advance Placement tests and in college are not as easily identified on social networking sites.</p>