<p>rwlavalley,</p>
<p>If you are going to tout the universities the students got into, but didn't specifically ask that question, then it is random unrequested information and shouldn't be considered part of your study. That's not nitpicking. </p>
<p>
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I know plenty of IB teachers who don't agree with their adminstration.
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</p>
<p>And how many of them DON'T have tenure yet?</p>
<p>I listed the universities as a demographic statistic of those that responded.</p>
<p>I have for each of the respondents the school they listed that they were an alumni for from those that responded from the social network emails. I did not include the schools if they did not specifically volunteer it. I was trying to respect their privacy in any report. </p>
<p>I know you might not understand that.</p>
<p>As far as tenure, I do know many who are tenured and many who are not tenured. Good teachers are not afraid of their admin. I also know many tenured teachers who are not worth their salt and should not even be teaching dogs. They were burnt out many years ago and only draw a salary. </p>
<p>Teaching is a noble profession. It is one of the most under paid and under valued professions in the US. We will pay millions of dollars for other non-academic programs but keep teachers salaries at the lower levels of pay scales. Educating our youth is a fundemental of our form of government. </p>
<p>I know your views are different than mine. I happen to believe that we need to educate students to the highest possible level they are able to achieve...we need to challenge them. I think we do a disservice if we teach to the median or mediocre. I believe both AP and IB are fine programs and should be provided to those that want to try them. They are not for everyone.</p>
<p>
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I was trying to respect their privacy in any report....I know you might not understand that.
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</p>
<p>How the heck is anyone's "privacy" compromised if you ask: What college did you attend? and assign numbers as you did to the assorted schools? Hmmm, rwlavalley? Who do you think you are talking to, a two year old?</p>
<p>Another good question which you should have considered asking was: "Did you get into your first CHOICE college?" and "If yes, were you awarded any merit based scholarships?"</p>
<p>No one needs to know who got in where or how much money they got. But your deliberate exclusion of questions which get to the heart of IB marketing, is disturbing indeed.</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
It (teaching) is one of the most under paid and under valued professions in the US
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</p>
<p>Speak for your own State, rwlavalley, wherever that may be. In my district in NY, the AVERAGE teacher salary is $89,000 for 182 days of work. I hardly consider that "under paid." We have many teachers making well over $120,000 a year. Our Superintendent makes $250,000 a year plus huge benefits. There'll be no violin playing for the "poor noble underpaid teachers" from my neck of the U.S.</p>
<p>rwlavalley
Thanks for posting the data, I'm sure that took some time to type out. I appreciate the information, and find it very interesting.</p>
<p>Well, I can't speak for NY nor would I ever move there. If you believe that teachers are not worth they are paid, then I feel sorry for the children in your area. Education is the foundation of our country.</p>
<p>As far as the questions you said I did not ask, I could have and maybe I should have but I didn't and I don't make up answers to fit a specific agenda. I know you have a hard time with the TRUTH but so be it.</p>
<p>As far as scholarships, I did not ask a question about them but many of the respondents said they did get scholarships. I can't surmise whether they were for IB (some specifically said they were) so I did not report them. Scholarships can come from many avenues: music, athletics, academic, minority status, etc. How do you discern where a scholarship that was received came from?</p>
<p>And as far as first choice school, I did not ask that question and not sure how it is relevant. If they were prepared for their university, they were prepared. They would have no idea if they were prepared for a university that they did not go to.</p>
<p>Some colleges offer sophomore standing for IB students who've achieved certain standards. Happens that my daughter's dream school does so.</p>
<p>The extended essay and certain projects have been priceless to this particular child based upon her interests and skills. AP wouldn't have suited her quite as well, although she'll take about 5 AP tests to cover her bases.</p>
<p>As far as the IB fees, the parents actually pay for those, so it's not clear to me how much extra the program costs the school.</p>
<p>And far as privacy, I did not ask the question of what school did they attend. I know where they said they attended from information on their profile. I did not choose to report that information unless they volunteered it. Sorry, it is a privacy issue that a chose to respect. </p>
<p>Again, I believe you won't find any value in what I have collected because it doesn't support your opinion. You cannot accept truth when it is presented to you.</p>
<p>ZooserMom,
Many school districts pay for the testing of IB or AP up to a certain number. In our school district, they pay the registration cost and IB test fees. I don't agree with it but they do. </p>
<p>The major costs of the IB program are the local adminstration cost (IB Coordinator), teacher training and the yearly fees per school. These fees go to build curriculum for the program. The cost of testing an IB student per test is $89 and AP test is $84. IB does have a test registration cost per student of $125 each year. The cost per year for the school is in the order of $5K. Our local school district also offers AP and there are costs for an AP Academy for teachers that never gets rolled up into the cost of AP. But if you do a side by side comparison of the cost per student, IB is more expensive by 2X-3X.</p>
<p>rwlavalley,</p>
<p>Drop the condescending BS. You are reporting results to questions you didn't ask. I never said you are making stuff up. I said you are including peripheral, extraneous information that wasn't specifically requested because it supports YOUR agenda to advocate for IB. Whether or not a student got into their FIRST CHOICE college with IB on their transcript is probably THE most relevant question of all. IB is sold as the "golden ticket". Parents are convinced that if their kid does the IB Diploma they will be a shoo-in for Harvard or Yale. How many of the IB Diploma students applied to Harvard or Yale and were rejected? I know the IB Diploma Valedictorian of our school a few years ago applied to University of Pennsylvania and was rejected, and the Salutatorian who was also an IB Diploma student was rejected from Yale, even though her daddy BoE trustee was Yale alumni.</p>
<p>Stop your Opinionated BS and your condescending BS. </p>
<p>I reported the universities because YOU previously asked if any of the colleges where in the top 10. Again, you get what you asked and you are not satistified unless it supports your opinion!</p>
<p>I don't know what parents are convinced of when they look into IB or not. I certainly can tell you I did not expect my children would be shoo ins to Harvard or Yale if they even wanted to go to those schools. I am able to discern the IBO information and make my own decisions. I worked with my daughters and we decided together what they wanted to do. I can tell you that all of the schools my daughters applied to they were accepted including some of the "IVY LEAGUE" schools. They chose where they wanted to go or want to go. They are wise enough to choose schools based on what they have to offer in the areas that they are interested and are not impressed by others who are IVY League schools.</p>
<p>Rwlavalley, we pay a lot of money in IB fees (the parents, I mean), and the way our school is set up from prior to the IB program, the internal administrative situation hasn't changed at all. May not be the case everywhere, but the cost isn't much in this particular school. I'm not sure of the benefit for the entire school, though, because we're told that bringing in the IB kids to this inner-city schools is beneficial to all. Not sure I believe that one.</p>
<p>ObserverNY, in every, single year MOST applicants are rejected from Harvard and Yale, so that statement was completely meaningless.</p>
<p>Are you such a control freak in every aspect of your life that you feel compelled to dictate how everyone lives their lives?</p>
<p>Zoosermom,
The previous school district we lived was similiar to yours. We paid for our IB fees. Good investment of our hard earned money in my opinion. That school was a school that was an inner city school that we had to go so our situation was a bit different than yours.<br>
Our current school district pays all the fees for both AP and IB. I frankly think that is a mistake. I think it should be paid for by the parents but I have little control over that decision. I would fight tooth and nail if they decided to cut out either program because I believe both have value.</p>
<p>ObserverNY,</p>
<p>To quote you from your new thread:</p>
<p>BOO. GO AWAY. YOU ANNOY ME.</p>
<p>ObseverNY</p>
<p>I am a parent with a high school freshman. We did not start the preIB with the notion that it is a "golden ticket" to any school. We did not drink any kool aid. We made an informed decision based on the educational needs of our student.
Really, you are very tedious. You choose not to answer questions or respond to comments that do not support your point of view--including prior to implementing IB information meetings, lack of millions of dollars of costs, transparent communication, avaliability of both IB and AP, preference for IB classes from students who have taken both types of courses from the same teachers, 67% = 5 on AP tests.....the list goes on and on.<br>
I get your message--you hate IB. Can you please go off to your own thread, which you have closed to IB supporters and leave this thread to those interested in the information rwlavalley has taken the time to collect and share? If you feel it reasonable to close the thread you started to those who support IB, it would surely be reasonable for you to leave this thread.</p>
<p>I linked into this thread because I am trying to help my 8th grader decide whether he wants to do the MYP/IB program offered at his school. I am really unsure based on everything I have read that I feel completely comfortable with the program. My son sees the segregation in the school (IB participants are kept separate) and the massive homework loads. My son is in all Honors classes, gets straight A's and participates in sports and chorus. The Florida public school he attends says that IB is the only way to go and that the ONLY way to be considered at U of F is to complete the program. (I am tempted to contact the University directly.) I never even heard of this program before moving to FL 2 years ago...even though my parents are both educators in the Northeast. If it has been around so long, why is it just now becoming such an issue? Why isn't high quality of education being made available across the board and not requiring it to have special names and labels?</p>
<p>The IB program has been around for quite a while. In the US; there's only about 500 schools that have it. The biggest problem US schools have with it is that there are a lot requirements. Including teachers being certified. Because of complacency, it is not uncommon for a school to not get enough teachers interested in becoming certified. Just like being a teacher in general, you don't just let anyone teach. Well, you have to get certified in IB also. The school, teachers, etc...</p>
<p>No student HAS to do IB to be considered for a specific college. The biggest difference, IN MY OPINION, between AP and IB is that AP allows a student to concentrate on a class(es) that they are strong in and want to take advanced classes in that subject. IB is an entire program that is advanced. They expect you to be able to handle advanced classes in all subject; be involved in clubs, sports, community involvement; write essays; etc... It's a PROGRAM not a CLASS. Is the IB program for everyone? Definitely not. Are AP classes for everyone? Definitely not. But one common thing I found with my son and daughter applying to numerous colleges in the country; especially in the top 10 list; is that they ALL wanted to see that you took either the IB program or AP classes. The more prestigious the college, the LESS credit the will give for the AP or IB classes; but the MORE emphasis they will put on that you better have had taken one or both or they won't even consider you.</p>
<p>As for getting college credit for AP or IB classes; that is a matter of perspective. I personally don't believe that a HIGH SCHOOL CLASS; no matter what it is, is designed to give you COLLEGE CREDIT. College classes is designed to give you college credit. If a college is willing to give you credit for certain classes, then that's just a bonus. The reason my son and daughter did the IB program instead of the AP classes, is for 2 reasons. 1) They weren't exceptional in just certain classes. They were exceptional in ALL their classes. As such, they liked the idea of a curriculum where the entire program was centered around excelling. 2) Of their friends who took AP classes; most said that while the AP classes were somewhat hard, all they really did was to teach you how to pass the AP test. Many of the AP classes (This is just in our school, I can't speak for others); were in the same classroom with "Traditional" students learning the "Normal" version of the same subject. Just that the teacher was adding the extra stuff for the kids taking the AP class.</p>
<p>So, the right answer isn't what your son or you think of the program or classes. It's to get your daughter to try and express what she wants to do/be when she graduates high school and what she wants out of high school. Then you can determine which curriculum; IB, AP, Honors, Traditional, Votech, or whatever will help her achieve her goals.</p>
<p>IB has been around for 40 years but many areas such as the NE have limited schools which have adopted it. There is a IB Guild in the NE which lists all of the IB schools if you are interested.</p>
<p>I would suggest you look into the Bright Futures scholarship program in Florida. It has multiple paths to obtain it of which the IB Diploma program is one of them. There is no guarantee getting into U of FL. UofF has a great deal of respect for IB as it does for AP.</p>
<p>IB and AP are excellent programs and it depends on what your child's ability and desires are at this point. I would describe IB best as a college prep program which emphasizes all the same general ed requirements which are in most colleges for the first two years. It is a rigorous program which wants the student to build skills in 6 different areas over the last two years. The 9th and 10th grade should be classes which are similiar to honors classes in any of the high schools in your area. They would be similiar to the AP high school honors classes. If your child is going to a school that offers both programs, then he should consider some AP classes in 10th grade (maybe 9th grade if he is mature enough but I would not recommend it). The Pre-IB classes will typically be PreAlgII, Honors English, a Foreign Language, a Science, a history, and an elective. It would not be much different for any college bound student.</p>
<p>As others have said, IB Diploma is a rigorous program which is not for everyone. But your child will develop time management, study habits and writing skills which will allow him/her to have a well rounded high school life if they are anything like my three girls who have been through it or going through it. The course will adequately prepare a student for the rigors of college.</p>
<p>If your child is really strong in one or two areas and not interested in the other areas in the IB program, then AP would be my recommendation. But don't think AP is an easier route. AP courses are college level courses.</p>
<p>The AP program is designed to give students college level material. It will be similiar to the level they will get in college but will depend on the teacher for delivery of the material much more than IB. IB has some mechanisms for better consistency. Many AP teachers build their lessons around the material expected to be in the AP test. Your child will come out with alot of information about a subject in AP.</p>
<p>I am exactly where you are with our youngest. She has been in IB since K and has grown up with PYP and MYP. For her, she has already figured out what classes she wants through 12th grade and she still is in 8th grade. She has had two older sisters in the same high school she has had as mentors. Luckily, she is skilled already in all the areas IB expects and should do just fine.</p>
<p>If you want more information, let me know.</p>
<p>Oh, I forgot, my daughter learned Friday she was accepted at U of FL so I know what it takes to get into U of FL. Now we are waiting if she will be on full scholarship like the rest of the schools she has been accepted. My daughter is a full IB Diploma candidate.</p>
<p>Our DD is a freshman, she is in a pre IB program. I don't think there is a specific answer to your question. You need to ask some questions at the school--is the IB program the only way the school will acknowledge that your student has taken the most challenging courses avaliable? Can he mix AP and IB (this is common in our school)? How are classes assigned--ie teachers, schedules, etc?
While I can't answer questions specific to Univ of Florida, I can tell you that many CA colleges are looking for the student to challenge themselves...either IB or AP or Honors, depending on what your school offers. DD was concerned about the homework horror stories, but is learned to take what she hears with a grain of salt. (I compare it to some women at a baby shower--every possible labor horror story is repeated and embellished.)
For DD her most challenging courses are the ones she loves, and where she learns the most and gets the best grades. Keep in mind she is a freshman, but she's taking honors in everything but Spanish 2 (not offered). Her World History H is all preIB students, it's demanding but no where close to overwhelming....she loves it.
See if you can find someone with a junior or senior student similar to yours and ask what they think of the program, that's a good way to get information specific to your situation.</p>