International Baccalaureate College Graduates

Parents Forum
21

<p>rwlavalley,</p>

<p>You are to be commended for independently attempting to gather student feedback. I urge you to continue and carefully evaluate the responses you get, especially as it concerns college credit. I too have read the flawed Fordham report where the Math Professor asked for his name to be removed because the foundation changed his scoring to inflate IB. The NRC report you refer to only analyzed IB science and math courses. Neither of those studies has to do with how IB students do in college. I am unfamiliar with a report on college outcomes of IB students by the NC for the Gifted, do you have a link?</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
AP and IB are both fine college prep programs

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Only IB is a "programme". AP courses and exams are delivered as stand-alone items. Only IB costs 10x what it costs to deliver AP. Only IB is college-prep, AP is college-level. American taxpayers should be aware of the distinctions between a "programme" and an explicit college-level curriculum. Your question addresses both full IB Diploma candidates and those who have taken one or two IB courses. Based on global HS outcomes, only the FULL IB Diploma program offers students any of the benefits touted by IBO as the new "gold standard". Unfortunately, many public schools implement the program in a manner which results in only the tiniest number of students attempting the full diploma. </p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
I have yet to see a single college guarantee a scholarship to AP students.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Are you an IB student in Florida or Texas? Because if you read the fine print, you would know that those IB scholarships only apply to Texas or Florida residents. I count a grand total of 11 other universities not in TX or FL that offer IB scholarships (no guarantees) and very cutely IBO slipped in the American University in Paris, FR under the U.S. list. Furthermore, I can cite a case of a Canadian student who was granted a scholarship based on her "predicted" diploma score, only to have that scholarship rescinded when her real IB grades came in.</p>

22

<p>
[quote]
Only IB is college-prep, AP is college-level.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It would appear it is "college-prep" only in name, for reasons already stated above/elsewhere. A quick comparison between the AP and IB curriculum, as well as a comparison with other curricula widely regarded as college-level, will show the IB curriculum to be at least as comprehensive as the AP curriculum (breadth and depth-wise).</p>

<p>I'm speaking from observation and hearsay only, though - I'm no education professional.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Furthermore, I can cite a case of a Canadian student who was granted a scholarship based on her "predicted" diploma score, only to have that scholarship rescinded when her real IB grades came in.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This is not uncommon and not exclusive to IB. Many universities - particularly UK universities - grant conditional admission, subject to meeting a certain IB or A Level score. I can tell you about the IB kid who got an offer of 45 from Oxford and a score of 44, I can also tell you about the A Level kid who got an offer of AAAA+Dist from Cambridge and an actual result of AAAA+Merit. It may be a flaw in the system/programme (that may not even be under IBO's control), but it does not reflect on the quality of the education.</p>

<p>[/not an IB kid]</p>

23

<p>Here is a blog on the IB by Washington Post education columnist Jay Mathews.</p>

<p>Jay is a huge proponent of IB and wrote a book called SuperTest. He wrote an article about taking an IB exam. He figured he'd try History. He bombed the test and called his friend who is the President of CalTech and said this stuff is killer.</p>

<p>Here is the link. It provides some information from colleges regarding how the IB is view in the admissions process. One that is missing is William and Mary who puts IB students in a separate pile in the admissions process.</p>

<p><a href="washingtonpost.com">url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/community/groups/index.html?plckForumPage=ForumDiscussion&plckDiscussionId=Cat%3aa70e3396-6663-4a8d-ba19-e44939d3c44fForum%3a5093b309-eb0a-47e2-b777-ea68b9dd478eDiscussion%3af8165938-79a5-4bd4-9e75-30424b02f0ae&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

24

<p>Here is the British take on the diploma versus A-levels etc. It is a study requested by ACS London.ACS</a> International School: Autumn IB report</p>

<p>My son is a diploma graduate and he entered college with enough credits to have 2nd year status. I think he got a lot out of the program but he has gotten more out of his college years. I guess that should be expected. What is interesting about the study above is that the admission officers recognize that it, "the IB diploma program may be the best qualification for helping young people to study or work internationally."</p>

25

<p>


That's sidestepping the point. What scholarships do AP students in Texas and Florida get? ;)</p>

26

<p>Thanks so much for everyone helping. Here is a list of schools which I have compliled which offer either almost enough or enough college credits for Sophomore status IF YOU GET YOUR DIPLOMA. Therefore you get credit for your SL courses. I hope you find it of use. Of course, there are minimum scores for many of these and I have tried to provide them if I could find them:</p>

<p>Bemidji State University (MN) - 30 or more points
Cedar Crest college (PA)
College of Eastern Utah
Concordia College (MN) - 30 or more points
Eckerd College (FL) - 5 or better in three higher level subjects
Florida Southern College - 4 or better in three higher level subjects
Franklin and Marshall College (PA) - 30 or more points
Juniata College (PA) - 30 or more points
Lawrence University (WI) - 30 or more points
Oregon State University - 30 or more points
State University of New York Binghamton - 30 or more points
Oglethorpe University (GA) - 30 or more points
Western Oregon University - Sophomore Standing & Provost Scholarship & Honors & Study Abroad Intenship (NO NEED TO BE OREGON RESIDENT)
Pine Manor College (MA)
Sacred Heart University (Canada)
St. Cloud State University (MN) 30 or more points
Suffolk University (MA) - 30 or more points
Towson University (MD) -30 Credits
Union College (NY) - 30 Credits
University of Tulsaq (OK) - 28 or more points
New York University (Stern)* 30 or more points
University of Texas, Austin - 30 or more points
University of Minnesota, Twin Cities - 30 or more points
University of Florida - 30 or more points
Middlebury College (VT) - 30 or more points
Wesleyan (CT) - 30 or more points
Smith College (MA) - 30 or more points
Bryn Mawr College (PA) - 30 or more points
Mount Holyoke College (MA) - 30 or more points
Barnard College (NY) - 30 or more points
SUNY Binghamton - 30 or more points
Ohio State - 30 or more points
Lafayette College (PA) - 5s on all SL and HL tests and C or above on TOK and EE
College of Idaho - 28 or better with Diploma
Florida State University - 30 credits
Tufts University offers a full year of credit for the IB Diploma
All Texas Universities will grant 24 Credits for IB Diploma based on TX Senate Bill 111
University of Washington, Up to 45 Creidts with Diploma
University of DePaul - up to 30 credits
Marquette University - Milwaukee - up to 30 Credits
University of Wyoming - 28 credits
Catholic University awards automatic admission to its honors program.
St. Mary's College in MD offers soph status to full diploma IB grads and offers scholarships specifically targeted to IB students as well (NO NEED TO BE MD resident)
University of Calcary - 1 year of credits
University of Wisconsin - Green Bay - FULL DIPLOMA = 28 + ELECTIVE 3 CREDITS
University of Central Florida - awards up to 30 semester hours of credit to students who complete the IB Diploma and obtain 4, 5, 6, or 7 in their three higher level subjects.
St. Leo University (FL) - awards 30 semester hours of credit to students with Diploma and have obtained a 5, 6, or 7 in their higher level subjects.
Huntington University (IN) - will award up to 30 hours of credit,with Diploma and have earned grades of five or better in their three higher level subjects.
Ball State (IN) - awards up to 30 semester credits with IB diploma and have earned grades of 5 or better in their three higher level subjects.
Defiance College - 24 Credits for total score of 29 or above for Full Diploma
Hofstra - Up to 30 credits with score of 30 or more points and the student must complete at least 3 higher level examinations with a score of 5 or higher
Clark College(NY) - 1 year credit for score of 36 and Diploma
Bard CollegeNY) - 32 Credits (1 Yr) with Diploma
Utica College of Syracuse University (NY) - up to one full year of credit
Concordia University - Seward (NB)- Between 24 - 32 Credits
Sarah Lawrence College (NY) - 1 year
American University of Paris (FR) - 30 semester credits for IB Diploma results of 30 and above
Hood College (MD) - 30 Credits with score of 30 or higher
St. Cloud State (MN) - 30 Credits
Hamilton College (NY) - 1 yr Credit
Thomas More College (KY) - 1 year credit for IB Exam scores 3 or higher
Mesa State College (CO) - 30 Credit hours
Montana State - Bozeman (MT) - Sophomore Status
University of Massachusetts - Boston - 30 Credit hors
Angelo State University (TX) - 24 Credits
University of Utah - 30 Credits with 5+ on HL exams
Lamar State College-Port Arthur (TX) - 24 Credits if 4+ on exams
Drake University (IA) - 1 Yr Credit for Diploma with 4+ on exams
Pacific Luthern (WA) - 30 Credits
Graceland University (IA) - 30 Credits
University of Colorado - Boulder - 24 Credits
Brazosport College (TX) - 24 Credits
University of Idaho - 30 Credits with 4+ on exams
University of LaVerne (CA) - 32 Credits for 30 or higher + on exams
Lake Superior College(WI) - 6 Semester Credits for HL with 4 and higher and 2 Semester Credits for SL with 4 and higher
University of Tampa FL) - Sophomore Standing with 30 or higher on Exams
Texas A&M - 24 Credits
University of Colorado - Denver - 24 Credits
Duquesne University - 30 Credits with 30 or above on exams
Rollins College - 32 credits - 30 or higher
Weber International University (FL) - 24 Credits/Sophomore Standing with 4 or better on exams
Metropolitan State University (CO) - 27 Credits for 4 or higher on exams
Bucknell University (PA) - 6 courses worth of credit for 5 or better on exams
Drury University (MA) - 30 Credit hours for 28 or above & $7K scholarship
Cancius College (NY) - 30 Credits
Florida Institute of Technology -(FL) 24 credit for 4 or higher on exams
University of West FL - SL and HL with 4 (3-4 Credits), SL and HL with 5 or better (6-8 Credits)
Knox College (IL) - Sophomore Standing
Texas Tech - at least 24 credits with scores of 4 or higher
Ar Institute of Boston - 18 Semester Credits
Midwestern State University (TX) - minimum of 24 Credits</p>

27

<p>For those who are worried about getting a lower IB score than predicted:</p>

<p>This is a problem only for students from outside the U.S. or those who apply to universities outside the U.S. For U.S. kids applying to U.S. colleges, the IB diploma score is meaningless. My daughter's university (one of the top 20) never even asked for it. As far as I know, they never asked for her predicted score, either. She doesn't even know what it was. </p>

<p>So for you Americans applying to American colleges, relax. All you need is to get the diploma, and even that is mostly for your own satisfaction. Nobody will particularly care whether your score is a 30 or a 40.</p>

28

<p>Do you have a suggestion for another thread? I am interested in what students or graduates have to say about IB.</p>

29

<p>I'm intrigued by the hostility from ObserverNY. Wow. One of my sons got an IB diploma and his girlfriend (different high school) took something like 9 AP classes over her junior and senior year. Both are dedicated students and came out liking the path each took. I like the IB program (or programme -- I can't get worked up over spelling) because it does incorporate several components which ends up making a student well rounded.<br>
It's a lot like arguing over fish vs. chicken for dinner. Either one is healthier than no eats at all. . .</p>

30

<p>ObserverNY... upset your child can't hang with the IB kids?</p>

31

<p>RWLAVALLey</p>

<p>Virginia Tech gives diploma holders the equivelent of 30 credit. I think James madison in Virginia does as well.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Unfortunately, many public schools implement the program in a manner which results in only the tiniest number of students attempting the full diploma.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>At my school 84 of the 300 members of the class of 08 completed the full diploma.</p>

32

<p>Vistany,
Which school do you go to?</p>

33

<p>
[QUOTE]
Jay is a huge proponent of IB and wrote a book called SuperTest. He wrote an article about taking an IB exam. He figured he'd try History. He bombed the test and called his friend who is the President of CalTech and said this stuff is killer.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>Jay IS a huge proponent of IB, in fact, his book Supertest - How the International Baccalaureate Can Improve Our Schools was co-authored by IBO's Asst. Director General Ian Hill and published by IBNA Board member Blouke Carus. As the creator of the Newsweek's Best High Schools list, he should disclose his financial bias before every article he writes on IB, but he doesn't. </p>

<p>I have e-mailed with Jay for 5 years now, in fact, he forwarded me his book prior to publication. Jay took the IB Eastern History exam, having been a correspondent for many years in that part of the world. According to Jay he earned a 6 on the exam. When I asked him why he didn't get a 7, he said, "An IB student has to know more than the teacher to get that!"</p>

<p>I am frankly sick and tired of IB supporters calling me "hostile" when I am merely pointing out facts. If you don't like the facts, I'm sorry, but don't kill the messenger.</p>

34

<p>Soccerguy -</p>

<p>LOL! Nope, not in the least. My youngest is a dean's list sophomore at NYU. Got a problem with that?</p>

<p>IBClasso6</p>

<p>Sidestepping? No, merely pointing out how IBO falsely promotes scholarship opportunities. The following is a link to some of the numerous scholarship opportunities available to AP students:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.*****************/Advanced-Placement-AP-Program.aspx%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.*****************/Advanced-Placement-AP-Program.aspx&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I don't know why the site is coming up with the asterisks but if you Google AP Scholarships it is the first site that comes up and is very informative.</p>

35

<p>As a parent of an IB diploma graduate, I'll take a crack at answering your questions, as other parents have.</p>

<p>1) Did IB help in college prep? What helped? Writing skills? Study skills?
D felt very well prepared for college once she got there. Had been a little apprehensive about Swarthmore's reputation for academic intensity, but felt that IB program in high school prepared her well and the transition to college level work was not too difficult at all. I think she especially liked TOK, which I'm sure helped her develop writing skills. </p>

<p>2) Did you receive college credit or advancement for your IB work? Did it help you to be advanced?
D recieved very little college credit for IB work, generally because she ended up mostly taking courses and majoring in a field not covered by the IB courses and exams. Especially at the highly selective colleges, credit policy is determined on a department by department basis. And many departments are less familiar with IB and the match between the IB exams and college courses may be less than for the AP exams. If getting college credit and graduating early is a deciding point between IB and AP, this might give the nod to AP. But we were much more interested in college preparation rather than saving a year's college tuition, and IB worked well in that regard for our D.</p>

<p>3)Did you graduate from college? What school? Or if still in college what was your GPA after 4 semesters? D graduated PhiBetaKappa from Swarthmore. Don't know her GPA (never actually saw her grades), but it must have been pretty good.</p>

<p>4)If you graduated from college, are you in a career related to your college degree?
D is teaching in an international school outside the US. I guess that's related to almost any degree from a LAC. She's planning on going to graduate school eventually.</p>

<p>5) In high school, did you take any AP exams in addition to IB exams? If so, what did you score and did you take without additional preparation? Did your school offer joint IB/AP courses?
D's high school only offered IB. She did not take any AP exams.</p>

<p>6)Did you get a Diploma or only IB certificate(s)? If certificates, how many? Where? What State or Country?
D was a Diploma IB graduate in Washington State.</p>

<p>Overall, I think the IB program is great preparation, especially for a liberal arts college. My S went to a different high school and took 5 or 6 AP exams. He is doing fine in college, too, but did not have as well rounded a college prep experience. But it was a better fit for his personality and interests, as he is really focused on math and science.</p>

36

<p>I have found this in a link provided by Vistany. Quotes are from admission websites at the mentioned colleges .</p>

<p>
[quote]
Cornell is a leader among American universities in enrolling undergraduate students who have earned the International Baccalaureate (I.B.). Cornell regards the I.B. program as a rigorous advanced program of study, and you'll be pleased to find similar opportunities at Cornell through interdisciplinary courses, independent majors, honors programs, and undergraduate research opportunities. Cornell may award credit and advanced standing for your I.B. Higher Level Exam test results.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
Binghamton University recognizes schools offering the International Baccalaureate program. The International Baccalaureate curriculum is the most challenging and comprehensive curriculum available and IB participation is recommended, taken into account and considered during the application process.

[/quote]
</p>

37

<p>
[quote]
Cornell may award credit and advanced standing for your I.B. Higher Level Exam test results.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Don't hold your breath.</p>

<p>My daughter is an IB diploma graduate now in Cornell's College of Arts and Sciences. She got zero credit from her IB HL exam results, despite having one 7 (in History) and two 6s (in English and Music). Cornell doesn't give credit for IB HL History or Music, and in the College of Arts and Sciences, you need a 7 for HL English to be worth anything.</p>

<p>No matter. She took eight AP tests (some based on AP courses, some as backups to IB tests) and got 30 credits, exemption from one freshman writing seminar, and placement in upper-level courses in her major as a first-semester freshman.</p>

38

<p>Responding to your question, I am pretty new here myself, but perhaps College Life?</p>

39

<p>Observer, the problem with your point of view is that you have a hidden agenda.</p>

40

<p>I think that the amount of credit you get for IB scores is directly correlated to the selectivity of the college you attend. More selective schools do not give as much credit, and I am not sure which colleges give credit for IB standard level exam results. If you are going to do IB and are doing it only to get advanced credit in college, you have to be quite careful about where you go.</p>

<p>My sons took AP exams after taking IB standard level classes- got 5's on the exams. The also took AP exams after AP classes, IB Higher exams after IB higher classes. From the outside looking in I did not feel they coped differently with these classes. They worked hard and did well with all of them. </p>

<p>Neither of my sons did full IB. Both did a mixture of AP and IB selected based on the class and the teacher (both wanted an English teacher who only taught AP) and both were able to do TOK as well. Seemed a good mixture for them. One graduated college, one is a senior. I sincerely doubt their outcomes would have been any different had they done full IB, particularly looking at the paths of their friends who did full IB (as opposed to pick and choose which they were able to do).</p>