International Baccalaureate College Graduates

Parents Forum
41

<p>Here's what Yale says:
[quote]
Students may receive acceleration credits by earning scores comparable to AP test scores on such tests as the International Baccalaureate (IB) higher-level examinations on the GSCE A-level examinations. In subjects for which an AP score of 4 or 5 earns acceleration credit, a score of 6 or 7 on IB higher-level exams, or B or A on A-levels, is required; in subjects that require an AP score of 5 for acceleration credit, a score of 7 on the IB higher-level or an A on the A-level is required.

[/quote]
So, nothing for SL, but HL is equivalent to AP.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
I am frankly sick and tired of IB supporters calling me "hostile" when I am merely pointing out facts. If you don't like the facts, I'm sorry, but don't kill the messenger.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That website you posted was not exactly "fair and balanced" reporting on the IB. It was very one sided.</p>

<p>RWLAvalley, My base school was Langley but I turned down TJ to attend Marshall High's IB program.</p>

43

<p>
[quote]
Soccerguy -</p>

<p>LOL! Nope, not in the least. My youngest is a dean's list sophomore at NYU. Got a problem with that?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>no problem at all, just trying to figure out why you are so adamantly against the best pre-college program out there?</p>

44

<p>
[quote]
So, nothing for SL, but HL is equivalent to AP.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>exactly... and you only need to look up the percentage of test takers scoring 4s and 5s on AP tests vs 6 or 7 on IB HL tests to see that they aren't even close to comparable in many subjects.</p>

<p>And that the SL tests are just as difficult as AP exams also.</p>

45

<p>Vistany,
Both schools are excellent. Am glad to hear that you liked Marshall.</p>

46

<p>Guillame,</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Observer, the problem with your point of view is that you have a hidden agenda.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>And therein lies your confusion. Unlike IBO's "hidden curriculum", I think the agenda of Truth</a> About International Baccalaureate is crystal clear, there's nothing hidden about it.</p>

<p>First, let's establish the fact that TAIB is not a newspaper which supposedly requires non-opinionated reporting of news. Although I happen to believe journalism died in 2008, I do know the difference between a website championing a "cause" and the straight reporting of news.</p>

<p>Our "cause" is also quite clear - to inform parents and taxpayers of the many different problems associated with the expensive IB program based on years of asking questions, tracking IB results, observing controversy in various communities and direct interaction with leading IB advocates and to:</p>

<ol>
<li>Try and get rid of it in our home districts</li>
<li>Prevent the further spread of IB in general public schools in the United States</li>
</ol>

<p>We really don't care what IBO does in Dubai or India, so far our U.S. taxdollars haven't gone to fund those schools, but who knows under the new administration. Also, if a private school chooses the IB curriculum, we don't have a problem with that, after all it's a private school. But if IB is so wonderful, shouldn't you ask yourself why the top private schools in the country haven't bought it?</p>

<p>So there you have it. No hidden agenda. Plain as day. The agenda developed as a result of the answers we have obtained and the results we have witnessed. It is not our intent to demean or attack IB students as we feel the students are the victims of this program. What educators and parents have to keep in mind is that IB is a product, just as AP and the A-Levels are products. Beginning in 1998 under former Director General George Walker, IBO began an "expansion push" in the U.S. This blossomed when Goals 2000 was adopted and from 2000-2004, IBO made significant gains in this country. Now with a new DG, IBO is turning its expansion efforts towards takeover in the UK and through the Aga Khan, with less attention being paid to the U.S. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is fact. It is the observation of a global business model that follows the age old saying "follow the money". IBO is the educational mouse that roared. Its marketing strategy is impressive for an organization with only 350 employees worldwide. IBO even issues a "playbook" for administrators to "overcome common objections" to the program. AP doesn't do that. The A-Levels don't do that. Doesn't it make you wonder why there are so many "common objections" that a company has to print up a playbook just to address them?</p>

47

<p>Hiding your identity suggests a hidden agenda. Perhaps you don't have a personal axe to grind with IB, but the stridency of your attack--calling it a "cult," for example--is suggestive.</p>

48

<p>Hunt, though ObserverNY states the goals of TAIB, and those are crystal clear, she does also have a personal axe to grind. Her local high school implemented IB while her daughter was still in school. Truthfully there were issues with how it was implemented there, and that is when she started investigating. Her daughter is now doing well in a good college, and seemingly was not harmed. ObserverNY does tend to utilize some fairly right wing websites and blogs (according to her, valid "news sources") to promote her anti-IB stance.</p>

<p>She has been known to take over forums, like Admissions 101 (on-line Washington Post) and generally blogs on any forum that deals with IB in any fashion.</p>

<p>Even though she has (in the past and on other threads) asked for the data that the OP was originally requesting (and I believe OP has created a similar thread for AP) in order to determine how well IB prepares students for college etc., she has now "hijacked" this thread from its original purpose.</p>

49

<p>In truth, the core mission of the IB to address the needs of a transient population is undermined by the structure of the program. It is a truth that in the nomadic American population, a given student might not spend 3 years in a given high school, and though the program is in theory portable- it is not always the case. What is consistent are the assessments which are done, and the curricular content. What is not consistent is the timeline and this is the issue. Some schools require a 'pre-IB' year of courses (this was true for science at my son's HS, for example) and then 2 more years to do HL classes-effectively spreading the content over 3 years, for example.</p>

<p>Also what courses a school offers depends on the individual school. So, a student moving mid-IB or even after 10th grade might find themselves ill prepared or not able to take the courses they were taking. Having courses which last for 2 years is a major factor here.</p>

<p>I don't understand the 2 year course thing. IB is supposed to be college prep- correct? How many courses did you take in college which lasted 2 years?</p>

<p>I am not so concerned about the theoretically anti-Anglo-Western themes...I am very concerned that 350 people in Geneva apparently have been vested with so much control by so many people.</p>

<p>As it happens in my work I visit schools all the time and I have been in at least 15 schools which have the IB programs- some with PYP and MYP. What goes on in the schools varies substantially depending on the student population (what % are not English speakers in particular) and with the teachers. In many communities clearly inferior schools are trying to get IB affiliation as a selling point for potential parents. Kind of like having your school called Harvard Day School or Stanford Day school.....</p>

<p>Finally, the apparently self imposed superiority of many of the schools which provide IB is antithetical to some of their core mission. These schools are all about meaningful social service, correct? Well, in this community at least the most elite of the IB schools routinely exits students, including some who have been at the school since age 5, at 9th grade if the students have not done well on the 'intake to IB' exams (ICGSE) or if they have learning differences.</p>

<p>I think the world of social service should begin with meeting the needs of and being inclusive of your own student body. The students they exit are often very bright but underacheiving. Some cannot do a full IB because of learning differences, but could do certificates, which the school does not permit.</p>

<p>This school then goes on to report the 'highest IB scores in the world.' What does that mean when you have exited anyone who might lower your average? Is cherry picking to be admired?</p>

<p>I am all for thoughtful, inquiry based learning which stimulants intellectual growth and creates a committed community. I think IB is one of many ways this can be achieved and that parents and students need to inform themselves fully as they approach the program.</p>

50

<p>anitaw, your objections can be applied to AP as well. Jay Matthews always complains about schools that shut out some students out of AP or IB classes.</p>

51

<p>At the schools where students are excluded, perhaps unfairly, from AP there are generally speaking non AP class options.</p>

<p>At the IB schools there is only IB, at least the schools I am speaking of. Therefore students must leave the schools they have attended for years and years. They are not shut out of a class, they are kicked out of a school.</p>

<p>Furthermore, the particular IB school of which I am speaking is aiming to 'better the communication within the world through other education' and other such aspirations. I think if you are going to make that your mission, you deserve criticism for being exclusive (when your message is one of inclusiveness of and care for everyone else in the world.)</p>

52

<p>3321,</p>

<p>Is that you Anna? Stalking me again? Your usage of the term "hijacked" rings oh so familiar. ;-)</p>

<p>
[QUOTE]
Her daughter is now doing well in a good college, and seemingly was not harmed.

[/QUOTE]
</p>

<p>My daughter is doing well, but she did not take any IB courses and was denied AP courses because of IB's implementation. It is not within 3321's capacity to determine what "harm" my daughter suffered in terms of harassment from Administration for her mother's position, or loss of college credits for not being able to take AP.</p>

<p>Hunt, </p>

<p>My identity was already exposed on this forum. Last time I checked, this is still a free country. There are those who want to be able to stamp their feet and declare IB is the best thing since sliced bread. There are those who feel it is detrimental to our public school system. Intelligent adults should be able to present different viewpoints without being attacked or one side attempting to silence the other.</p>

53

<p>I'm not attempting to silence anyone. Post on! But if you choose to point people to a website making absurd claims, don't be surprised when their absurdity is pointed out. IB has pros and cons, like anything else, but I don't think very many intelligent adults will accept the argument that it is a cult or a commie plot.</p>

54

<p>Observer, no it is not Anna (though I guess I picked up the term from reading her responses). I used the term, because the OP isn't now getting her questions answered. Instead the thread has been "hijacked" and is now dealing with your views (and others) on IB. Perhaps the OP will post her questions elsewhere, and only those students (or their parents) who can answer the questions will respond.</p>

<p>I would assume you would appreciate her/his questions since some of your issues deal with what she is addressing.</p>

<p>This thread shouldn't evolve into a continuation of your postings on Admissions 101, TAIB or the Leader one. Those are all fine, for your concerns. This particular thread, I hope, will produce some interesting data that might get to the heart of the "value" of IB for students in college. Perhaps the answers will even prove one of your claims that IB isn't college level but merely college prep. In addition, data will be generated on college credit earned, and gpa in college. Since the OP is also asking the same questions on AP, a comparison might eventually be made that could also address one of your other issues: cost.</p>

<p>So, please, don't "hijack" i.e digress from the OPs original intent, as it might actually benefit your "cause"</p>

<p>Sorry if I sound a little snarky, just expressing my opinion. You certainly have the right to express yours and now that folks know other sites to read yours, perhaps you can focus on those forums for the anti-IB stance, and leave this for the answers to the questions posed.</p>

<p>By the way, you were the one to first post the TAIB website here, I just added the Wash Post and Leaderonline. I also haven't revealed your sign on to the Washpost etc., so your identity hasn't been "exposed."</p>

55

<p>Problems with the implementation of IB, or any other pre-university program that isn't well-established and well-understood, have practical repercussions and affect students in very real and unfortunate ways; however, it's clear to me that the OP is asking about how well-prepared IB students are for college, or feel they are, relative to their AP counterparts, which is a different issue.</p>

<p>There's a similar thread directed at AP students here: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/643111-advanced-placement-college-preparedness.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-life/643111-advanced-placement-college-preparedness.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>[/avoids drawing any conclusions]</p>

56

<p>


</p>

<p>I do not think that anybody but the taxpayers that reside in the district should decide what kind of a program their tax dollars are paying for!</p>

<p>Personally, I do not care what kind of a credit my kids will get upon completion of an IB course/certificate/diploma. I care about the quality of education!
In my state and district the IB program brings together the smartest kids around. College professors are going out of their way to make sure their kids attend the program! The school has the highest NMF , Presidential Scholars etc. number in the state!
Of course each school is different , depends on many, many things. The IB school in district happens to be the BEST school in the state! It is an inner city school that struggled until they introduced the IB program many years ago.</p>

<p>I did browse through the website in question. Nothing I have not heard before about an IB program. Nationalistic mambo jumbo. Scary, to be truthful...
Observer - why don't you keep your opinions to your neck of the woods? Convince your representatives and senators that IB is evil and your state should not support it. But what right do you have to spread this agends to my state, which you are actively doing by participating in conversations on sites like this one and directing readers to your site? It is clear self promotion and advertising - which I am reporting. I did not come with questions to you - you came after me!</p>

57

<p>

Again, that is not how it works in my school district. In fact, my high school had a variety of courses available (regular, advanced, honors, AP, and IB). If a student decided that IB was not for him/her, usually (s)he switched to Certificate (i.e. a mix of IB and other classes) or AP entirely. It was a non-issue.</p>

<p>

Keep in mind that this is an INTERNATIONAL program. It is not, nor ever has been, specifically geared toward American universities -- unlike AP. It is not at all unusual for students in other countries to focus their coursework in only a few areas and spend several years doing so. In the UK, for example, a student typically only takes three A-levels.</p>

<p>One must also keep in mind that although IB courses sometimes span two years, they cover different material each year. For example, the first year of Math SL corresponds to algebra II/precalculus, and the second year corresponds to AP Calculus AB. Furthermore, many of the HL classes (particularly the sciences) cover far more detail through Options than their AP counterparts.</p>

58

<p>
[quote]
Originally Posted by anitaw
I don't understand the 2 year course thing. IB is supposed to be college prep- correct? How many courses did you take in college which lasted 2 years?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I've said elsewhere on this forum that A Level mathematics, which lasts two years, assumes a foundation equivalent to AP Calc AB, and covers - at least in Singapore's version of it - AP Calc BC, AP Stats, and quite a bit more besides. Most of the calc work is done in the first year, most of the stats in the second. It's not like they spend two years teaching the same things. IB is the same (... as I see IBClass06 has already mentioned).</p>

59

<p>Although healthy discussion like this is good to read, I am just trying to sollicit opinions from people WHO HAVE ACTUALLY GONE THROUGH IB or directly involved in IB such as parents of IB Students who have graduated.</p>

<p>I do not appreciate the hijacking of this discussion to debate one way or the other because it does not allow me to gather info from those that might contribute. </p>

<p>I have started the exact kind of discussion for AP and hope to gather that info as well so the parents who ask can get information from those that have been through it.</p>

<p>Please can we stay on topic....which is help me find those that can answer my questions so I can get enough results to get a bonafide study to share with everyone.</p>

60

<p>rwlavalley
Our Dd has just started high school, and it enjoying the preIB classes very much. I see a big difference in the teaching structure of her more general classes, her honors classes and the IB specific class. For what it's worth, I think the IB is doing more to prepare her for college down the road.<br>
I did explore all the options at the high school, AP, College Prep and IB are all offered. To a great extent, she will take a mix, it will narrow to mostly IB in Jr and Sr years.
Some of her courses will be AP, followed by IB. See if the school in question can give you projected schedules for each year, I found them to be very helpful (when all is said and done, the difference between IB and AP at this school is 5 classes--total, throughout all 4 years).</p>