<p>My son predated IB, was a B+ average SAT student who graduated with his BFA from a specialized SUNY design and technology conservatory that only accepts between 35-40 students out of over 1,000 applicants a year and he is now a married, gainfully employed successful lighting designer in NYC, having lit shows for both CNN and CNBC. My daughter avoided IB, was tagged as "gifted" in elementary school, an A student with high SAT scores. IB is open enrollment in our school so anyone can take it. She attended a specialized performing arts magnet school for 1/2 day, took what AP courses were still available and was admitted to every college she applied to. She is currently a sophomore on a merit scholarship at NYU.</p>
<p>Have anymore nasty elitist comments? Because I have one closing link for you folks. I want you to put your emotions aside and read my update today. IB is a product. Just as I won't buy CITGO oil because it is owned by Chavez, I don't believe in buying IB. You can rant and rave that I don't know what I am talking about, but that just proves you to be all the more delusional. </p>
<p>Again, you do not like the facts. IB Students receive college credit for HL classes for 5 and above from most schools and when I add up those %, I get 69% and not 18%. So please at least get a calculator out when you discuss stuff. IB provides % because it is easier to understand for people like you.</p>
<p>As far as sheer numbers, IB is smaller and not in as many schools as AP. I am not sure why the sheer , number is a problem to you since I provided it to you.</p>
<p>What about all those AP students who got less than 3 in their tests? That large number is not something that concerns you (oh wait, that is all those minorities taking tests that cause that....WRONG! Look at the national report from AP and the minorities are well broken out.)</p>
<p>Your bias is not worth debating any longer because you don't want to see the facts unless they support your postion. If you want to be useful, send me 115 AP graduates who will answer my questions and we can do a side by side comparison.</p>
<p>There is a movement against IB because of the international component. I'm a conservative republican, but it's a hard-right movement that considers IB to be a plot to de-Americanize kids and indoctrinate them.</p>
<p>You seem to be speaking like the one who feels superior to us poor uninformed "IB" defenders. IB is not for everyone. It takes someone who wants ownership on their education. My three daughters have been through IB since PYP(for you ObserverNY, that is primary years program) and it has done nothing but good for them. I have had a son who went the AP route and it was great for him. I have had another daughter who got her IB diploma and graduated from U of Colorado in 3.5 yrs in a hard science program which takes 5 yrs. And she held two jobs while she did it. Was she prepared for college....yes. Will my next daughter who has gotten a full ride scholarship to a top school in the fieild be prepared...yes. Will my other two getting the education for them to be successful with IB, Yes.</p>
<p>So unlike you, I have experienced both AP and IB. Both have their good points and their bad points. Unlike you, I choose to work with IB and improve it. Oh, btw, I am working with AP to improve it. Like getting them to improve their scoring of AP tests so that a 5 is not 67%.</p>
<p>Ahhhh, you all know that Jay Mathews has referred to ObserverNY as the smartest IB critic in the US, perhaps? IOW, you don't need to spell out IB acronyms for her.</p>
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There is no right path for every student and it's a great thing that different kids have choices appropriate to their needs and abilities.
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<p>I agree 100% However, it's NOT a great thing when the IB program is forced upon a public school and other choices are eliminated as a result. In smaller schools (those under 1200) it becomes fiscally unfeasible and a scheduling nightmare to run both IB and AP and do so effectively.</p>
<p>Well ObserverNY, I would agree with that. I'm definitely not a fan of less choice, and I would say that IB is definitely wrong for more kids than it's right for.</p>
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IB Students receive college credit for HL classes for 5 and above from most schools
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<p>Sorry, you are incorrect. None of the Ivies or top tier schools give college credit for IB scores of HL 5's with a few exceptions. Go check. Just as they don't give credit for AP 3's, which is why I only counted AP 4's and 5's and IB 6's and 7's.</p>
<p>Well thank you for seeing my perspective. As I said, my kids were lucky enough to be able to participate in a half-day magnet program which thoroughly prepared them for college applications and admission (and great success in university). </p>
<p>I don't have an objection to an IB charter or stand-alone magnet program being offered to students from across a county. The school my children attended was such a program and students from 51 different school districts attended there. The atmosphere was wonderful, kids enjoyed going to the school because they were doing what they loved. There was plenty of diversity and they made lifelong friendships with kids from other towns they never would have met if they were sequestered in their neighborhood HS IB program. </p>
<p>For those who want to choose IB, this is the perfect fit. It simply doesn't fit into the average sized general public school without causing disruption and controversy. All a matter of design.</p>
<p>P.S. - Did you read my update? I may be the Rush Limbaugh of public education, but IBO will soon be a company of only 90 employees worldwide. ;-)</p>
<p>You forgot to add "smartest and LIVELIEST" IB critic in the country or my ability to cause strokes and make people drive their cars into the side of their homes, all from 100s of miles away! And I'll have you know that I just shined up my Mrs. Long Island tiara. ;-p</p>
<p>This isn't a direct response to any one person directly. But I live in a very rural state. The largest city, the capitol, only has 55,000 people. As such, we only have 2 schools in the entire state that offer the IB program; and that's the 9th-12th program. There is no way we could afford or build any type of a magnet school system for the IB program. The ONLY way to have the IB program is in the Public School system. The only PRIVATE schools we have are religious based private schools (Usually only through Junior High School age); some home schooling; and a couple of specialized private schools. But both public schools that have the IB program also offers AP classes. No AP classes or any other programs have been shut down or canceled at the cost of providing the IB program. In the 2 cities that each have a school that has the IB program, the cities also have at least 2 high schools, one has 3 with a 4th being built. This provides students the ability to take the IB program if they want, to take just about any AP class if they want, or stay with a traditional curriculum if they want. Other than some private schools, a parent/student couldn't ask for any more choices. There's only 652 schools in the USA that currently offer the diploma program. So I doubt very much that other programs are being hurt because of the IB program. Not to the point that a student doesn't have choices. </p>
<p>And whether some like it or not, more and more colleges are accepting IB diplomas and giving college credit. Here's a page from the IB website that lets you see all the schools offering some/all IB programs, and all the colleges/universities to accept the diploma. Country</a> information</p>
<p>Also, while Harvard may not give college credit for IB classes, they DO RECOGNIZE the IB diploma. And students applying to harvard, yale, princeton, etc... that haven't taken the IB program or taken a FULL LOAD of AP CLASSES, will probably NOT get accepted. And for what it's worth, I also know some prestigious schools that don't give college credit for AP classes or IB classes. So it's definitely an individual college issue, NOT the IB program. </p>
<p>And here is a good recent article from US News/world that really mention how good the IB program is and the desire for it. While I may not want/believe/agree with a 1-world-government; I do believe that we are definitely in a global economy. As such, it is imperative for our citizens and students to have a more global understanding. That doesn't mean we have to give up our constitution to the UN; but we do need to know how to sell, buy, trade, work, with people all over the world. Anyway, here's a good article.</p>
<p>Imho, the U.S. News article is NOT a good article, it is completely one-sided and nothing more than a publicity piece for IBO. Absolutely nothing fair and balanced about that article.</p>
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Imho, the U.S. News article is NOT a good article, it is completely one-sided and nothing more than a publicity piece for IBO. Absolutely nothing fair and balanced about that article.
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<p>Not much fair and balanced about what you're telling us either, believe it or not.</p>
<p>Our website is not a main stream newspaper or magazine. No one is paying us to provide fair and balanced reporting. We are the opposition. We are the anti-IB. A newspaper or magazine like U.S. News or Newsweek USED to be held to journalistic standards. No more. A GOOD article, would include both sides of an issue without injecting favorable opinion for either side. There is plenty of pro-IB propaganda circulating in the media and our public schools, with Jay Mathews leading the charge. Remember, U.S.News is Mathews competition and only just started its own Best HS List last year. TAIB's purpose as stated on its homepage is NOT to be "fair and balanced". TAIB's purpose is to expose everything IBO doesn't want you to know. I think the difference is pretty clear.</p>
<p>An example of fair and balanced reporting would be after citing the overall description of IB and several glowing quotes for a reporter to add:</p>
<p>"While many parents, students and educators speak very highly of the IB, the program also has many active and vociferous opponents".....and then list some of the primary objections to the program and quotes from those in that camp. Then after being presented with BOTH sides, and let's make no mistake about it, there are definitely two sides to this issue, the reader can come to their own, informed decision. THAT is fair and balanced.</p>
<p>To Jay Mathews credit, he has provided his Admissions 101 forum as a venue for the opposition to voice its concerns, yet most of his articles are still heavily biased in favor of IB.</p>
<p>I think that no matter how hard both sides try, they are not going to persuade the other. To be fair, I read the entire website presented by Observer. While I understand some of their concerns, I find the majority of them to be without proof or basis. Mainly just opinions. They've made it clear that their mail goal in life is to get the IB program dissolved from the American educational system. Unfortunately, I believe that the main reason revolves around the word "International". They are totally against the United States being part of the international community. But that is definitely up for opinion. The problem I have mainly with the website, is their concept of "Cause and Affect". They claim that the IB program affects our children in certain ways, and I just can not agree. Not after being involved with my children for 7 years. And also their bias on how great the AP classes/system is compared to the IB program. I don't believe that most people consider the IB program to be superior to other forms of education. Just additional. Just as I believe home school, private schools, magnet schools, etc... are all GOOD alternatives to the public school system; so is the IB program.</p>
<p>I believe that IB students are indeed taught to THINK. They aren't brainwashed. They love to post examples of a student's essay on abortion as though the IB program is teaching our kids these values and morals. While I don't agree with abortions; in 90% of the situations; there are a lot of people in our country that don't agree with me. Not everyone who believes that abortion is an automatic choice are IB students/parents/etc... It just seems that this website is trying to preach that ALL liberals and internationalists are in favor of the IB program; and all conservatives and nationalists are against it. That is so blind. I know plenty of liberals; (Especially NEA union teachers who feel threatened) that are against the IB program. I also know a lot of conservative teachers and parents who want their kids to be in a classroom environment where they aren't just taught facts/opinions in a book, but are allowed to think for themselves and learn to appreciate what others thing.</p>
<p>Obviously, we are never going to agree. If I had seen any negative implications from my daughter in the Pre-IB 9th-10th grade years; I never would have allowed her to continue; or let me son do the program. I saw my kids grow and mature. They think for themselves. They are independent and individuals. They ask A LOT OF questions and don't accept what the teacher tells them just "BECAUSE THEY ARE THE TEACHER". Even in elementary school; many years before the IB program; I taught my kids to NEVER accept what a teacher or anyone told them blindly as truth. To research and learn it for themselves. The IB program did not change this philosophy that I taught my kids.</p>
<p>My kids are individuals. They don't agree with me on everything. My son is a strong conservative "In political matters"; but he much more of a liberal "In Social matters". My daughter is almost the opposite with conservative personal and social values and a more moderate political mindset. This is good. It means they aren't just robots on my values/morals. And if they are anything like I was as a child, they will change their positions, morals, values, etc... quite a number of times before they settle in with what becomes THEIR VALUES and MORALS and not MINE. </p>
<p>I'm glad that students/parents have a choice. The funny thing is that there are plenty of purely private schools out there that teach with the same basic structure. Yes, the IB program evolved from educational requirements of international students; (Traditionally government worker's kids overseas, military DODDS children overseas); and that it moved onto overseas workers and then other country's upper class wanting their kids to have a better education than their country could provide. It was originated as a means of having a standardized education system for children moving all over the world with their parents. All that has happened is that the world and united states has realized that with hundreds and thousands of different school systems, that some kids could benefit from having a more advanced and standardized curriculum than what they were currently getting. Plus, it allowed the means for children to have a better world understanding. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. That's like taking one of the WORST public schools in the country; Worst</a> Public Schools in the USA - Neighborhood Scout ; and complaining because they want to give the kids other opportunities. Oh well; the IB program; at least in our high school; did great by my kids. They succeeded in high school; got accepted to great colleges; and have excelled in college. And they are free thinking individuals. I couldn't ask for anything more.</p>
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Unfortunately, I believe that the main reason revolves around the word "International".
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<p>And this is why you believe incorrectly. Our/my main reason revolves around IBO's UN/UNESCO connection in addition to it being an overly expensive product. </p>
<p>In HS, I took Latin and French, my children both did well in Spanish. We have traveled to Italy, England, France, Mexico, Spain, the Netherlands, Brazil and many islands in the Caribbean. Before IB our schools had International days. There's nothing wrong with becoming aware of our global neighbors, their customs, traditions, governments and so on. I resent the constant implication by pro-IBers that because I oppose IB, I am anti-international. I don't believe we need to buy a Swiss/UN program to educate our children about the world.</p>
<p>I have 118 responses so far for this research effort.</p>
<p>114 of 118 felt IB help with their college preparedness. Over 75 schools were represented and 8 of the top 10 schools in the US had responses.</p>
<p>If you would like to get more details, I will gladly send details and what I have found with this effort. Please send me a note on confidential. If you have any questions, I will gladly disclose how the sample was collected.</p>
<p>And of course, your favorite website has a nice little plug at the end of the article. I believe that every child growing up needs to learn about their country, language and culture. If there are IB oriented elementary schools in the USA that aren't allowing the students to learn local civics and history, then that is wrong. Fortunately in my state, all students must certain state history and civics classes in school. Also, IB doesn't start until 9th grade. Having said that, I don't think there is anything wrong with learning world history or world literature. (Sorry, but you can't convince me that there's a difference between U.S. Math and U.S. Chemistry/Physics and a "World" version. But when it comes literature, history, and learning a 2nd language; that is great. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And as for distorting our own educational system, I find that pretty ironic considering the many distortions in our own history books in school; WAY BEFORE IB entered our schools. By far, I believe that the USA is the greatest country in the world. I've lived in 14 countries and there is no doubt in my mind that we are the best. But our economy and society has changed a lot. Especially in the last 30 years. We are, and NEED to be more globally oriented. That doesn't mean that our citizens/children are having their country/heritage taken away from them. It just means they need to learn more about the rest of the world. That means communicating with the rest of the world.</p>
<p>Sorry, but reading the article definitely showed a lot of conspiracy theories without any real proof. Just because high school children are learning another language, reading world literature, and world history doesn't mean the students are becoming globalized. I remember growing up; way before IB in this country. We learned foreign languages. I read russian poetry. I learned world history. Why was it OK then, and not now? And I really find it hilarious; yes FUNNY AS HELL; that the article talks about the oh so evil NEA (Which I personally think they DO SUCK); yet in most states/classes, you will find that it's the NEA and teachers who seem to be the most AGAINST the IB program. Obviously their agenda is maintaining control, jobs, money; (It's a UNION thing). But yet they are supposedly part of the IB globalization of education. Anyway, I read the article. I am conservative. And I am not impressed or moved by the article. But then again, if we happen to like the IB program and believe that there is nothing wrong with learning about the rest of the world; then we must be "SO CALLED CONSERVATIVES". Sorry, but not all conservatives fall into your beliefs. Then again, politically speaking, doesn't the KKK consider themselves conservative? I'm definitely a conservative, but I don't support the klan.</p>