International Student seeking advice

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

<p>I come from Hong Kong, however Chinese has never been my mother language. I've graduated from my highschool already and was sadly unable to be admitted to and HK universities as I was unable to reach a minimum requirement of 2 out of 5** for Chinese.
So the grading system is like this: (lowest)U, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5<em>, 5</em><em>(highest)
I got 5</em>* for English, 4 for English Literature, 3 for Math/Liberal Studies, Science
Meanwhile, we never did GPA calculations nor have I found any official standards to convert these numbers.</p>

<p>So what my question is, I am applying the EA for Harvard but then here are some major problems:</p>

<ol>
<li>I have a lot of activities, but in HK we call it Other Learning Experiences </li>
<li>I've won high distinctions and distinctions (regarded as top 1%) in the UNSW English ONLY</li>
<li>I've won the 1st prize consecutively for the annual HK English Speech Festival competition ONLY</li>
</ol>

<p>Compared to those who have outstanding work experiences or fund raisers, I am basically a small small potato. Come to think of it, international students' acceptance rate is low.</p>

<p>I am trying to take up Architecture as a major, yet the only award I have won was the Wharf Art Secondary School's Competition, my artwork has been selected out of 2000+ submitted pieces and I am one of the 18 awardees.</p>

<p>I love Art, but my parents never encouraged me to develop in this area, therefore I basically have no good proof to demonstrate my strong Art sense (although I am going to provide Art supplements) Other than that, I come from a poor family so I have never attended any Art Class, not even in school.</p>

<p>I play the piano, currently grade 7.</p>

<p>No, I haven't taken the SAT, because I never thought how unfair the HK's education system would be (total minimum required score for entering HK uni is ONLY 12 and I have 21 but because of Chinese) so I've applied to take the SAT this October</p>

<p>Predicted scores for SAT I:
Critical Reading: 750~800
Writing: 700~750
Math:800</p>

<p>Predicted scores for SAT II:
Chemistry: 750~800
English Literature: 800
Math II: 800
should I take Chinese with listening? I can definitely get a 800?</p>

<p>Overall I realize I haven't been able to provide sufficient information, I've heard my friend's boyfriend scored high in TOEFL and SAT and aces at sport and got into MIT.</p>

<p>So what if I got 2300+ in my SAT II. Am I competitive enough to apply for this college?
Will me applying for financial aid decrease my chances in being considered?
Please help</p>

2

<p>Bump. Please help</p>

3

<p>@aabyrinth Your EC’s are outstanding, no need to worry about that for now. As long as you can keep up on your on your predicted SAT I and SAT II, you should have a fighting chance. But the fact of the matter is there are many asian, who will match your status, if not totally surpass it. So the key thing, i can stress here is that you should focus on your college essay. To stand out as an international student, make your essay personal, and unique. </p>

<pre><code>Regarding the financial aid, international students mostly get deferred from EA,and ED, When applying for financial aid, because the college can’t be totally sure how much money it can allocate.
</code></pre>

<p>Final verdict, your Ec’s and predicted scores will make you competitive. As that won’t be a guarantee, for the likes of Harvard, and other prestigious schools, focus on your essay, in fact you should make a rough outline now. Even with all this (like many who apply to harvard), you have a low chance of getting in. You just have to hope for the best.</p>

<p>Good luck</p>

4

<p>@bktohelp thank you so much for enlightening me. Yes, I understand that essays are very crucial, and I really want to stand out, which is why I keep struggling on whether I should write it in a safe way or challenge it by demonstrating my creativeness in poetry?
Despite the low chances, I still have some bits of hope, and you even helped me relieved certain worries, thank you very much for that, I’m definitely going to hope and work for the best.</p>

5

<p>Oops, I just realized that it is BEST NOT TO write a poem, guess I’ll stick to the regular format and do what I can to present myself. Thank you though.</p>

6

<p>I am from HK as well, I go to Princeton and I did the HKDSE so I understand your situation.</p>

<p>I hate to break it to you, but I don’t think you will get into Harvard. I’m sorry to sound pessimistic / arrogant, but in the past few years, Harvard has only accepted 1-2 people from HK each year. It is much harder to get into Harvard (or any US university) from HK, because so many highly qualified people apply, and it is even harder to get in through the HKDSE, because it is still such a new system, and most people who get into US colleges from HK did the IB.</p>

<p>Compared to the people I know who got into Harvard from HK, your extra-curriculars (and, considering your HKDSE results, I’m guessing your school results) cannot compete with theirs (top awards at international competitions; student council president at international schools etc.)</p>

<p>My advice would be to make this coming year a spectacular gap year (e.g. independent project like research / volunteer, or an internship at an international / really cool company) - basically something that sounds impressive + which will let you learn a lot - and look for colleges that admit people based more on standardized testing scores (that’s your strength) than personal qualities. I suggest Penn / Cornell for Ivies / reach schools, Rice / Vanderbilt / UCLA / Berkeley / USC / NYU for realistic choices. If you can afford it, you’ll increase your chances at everything except Cornell if you don’t apply for financial aid. (The UC system doesn’t even offer financial aid to internationals away)</p>

<p>I don’t mean to sound harsh or presumptuous, but the sad truth is that applicants from many high-achieving countries (especially those in Asia e.g. China / South Korea / Singapore) are held to much higher standards because there are so many applicants for so few spots. I’m only trying to give you realistic expectations and prevent you from wasting your time or being too disappointed for Harvard. I’m sorry that the education system in both HK and the US is disadvantageous for you, and all the best of luck.</p>

7

<p>^I wholeheartedly agree with the above post. </p>

<p>I’m also from HK, high school class of 2014 and I did the IB at a local school. I’m sorry but your chances are simply as slim as…none. My friends and I were all predicted 45/45 in the IB, with at least 3 800s in SAT IIs, 2100-2400 SAT/34-36 ACT, decent ECs…but basically received rejections from almost every single Ivy/top 10. International student, being Asian, limited ECs/awards, doing a curriculum where adcoms don’t have an idea of……each factor just progressively slims down the chance. And it’s definitely true that there IS a set quota on the number of students the universities can take from HK - which is ridiculously low with no leniency. You may also want to know that throughout the decades, loads and loads of HKCEE 8As/9As/10As have tried their luck at HYPS etc with no avail whatsoever, year after year. </p>

<p>I’m headed to a university considered as prestigious as the lower tier Ivies, but out of 13 HK admits this year there was only 1 HKDSE candidate - she was the vice head girl of an extremely elite school in HK, applied early decision, got full and exclusive support from her principals…and she achieved 5 5**s in her DSE. Everybody got in by saying yes to paying full tuition willingly, btw. So I must inform you that getting into a elite college from HK directly is WAYYYYYYYYYYY tougher than Oxbridge/LSE/so-called ‘god subjects’ of unis in HK…etc. </p>

<p>However, I know of an absolutely talentless young lady in the so-called ‘best’ secondary school in HK - she had similar results to yours on her DSE but now has become a sophomore at a top 15 school. There are ways to get through, but it won’t be that easy. On the ‘regular’ route to the top 25 in US directly from HK, you would need a solid SAT (2100+) as your starting point, which you have, but you need other support such as straight As in your internal (high school) transcript, a good counselor and teacher to write recommendations for you, as well as 10 (that’s the number you’re given to supply) ECs’ details. For Harvard, I’d say only FTCL/FRSM/HKSMSA mufest 1st prize for piano would perhaps help a teeny winy bit, but not Grade 7. Maybe you get the idea. Finances are a key factor, sadly, for most schools. You’re welcome to PM me if you would like to know more.</p>

8

<p>I will be taking the DSE again, I know my chances are slim yet Harvard is just one of my choices, of course I chose safer passages like Rice, Brown. Harvard is for my EA, so I’m just asking for advice. Meanwhile, despite my lack of competitiveness WHEN compared with students who are absolutely elite in all aspects. I’m not wasting my time if I know I tried, if Harvard does reject me, so be it. Thank you though. I still have essays to work on and I’ve talked to Harvard students who’ve shared their experiences, essays are crucial. My profile isn’t outstanding, but it doesn’t determine who one really is. Competitiveness isn’t backing down when I see people who are better than me yet can’t enter Harvard, it’s seeing such posts and still telling myself to follow my dreams and TRY to fulfill it. I thank you two deeply for sharing your insights.</p>

9

<p>I think if you are really inclined on going to the States, better ‘safe choices’ would be the UCs - they are less focused on ECs, more on testing, and do not have racial preferences in admission. You’ll also have less essays to write. They’re also cheaper to attend. Even if your internal grades are not top-notch, a great testing record (2100+ SAT, for example), would make you a more than competitive candidate for admission to schools such as UC Santa Barbara, UC Davis…etc. But at the same time you can simultaneously apply to very nice schools, with an experience comparable to privates (UCB, UCLA etc - UCB has an awesome architecture program!). No Top 20 school takes more than 15 (or at most 20) students from HK per year, fyi.</p>

10

<p>Predicted scores are irrelevant for standardized tests.</p>

11

<p>The UC’s won’t give her a dime, why push that? </p>

<p>She has a “Dream”, like every other international student, to attend Harvard, and thinks that she can beat the odds even though she’s been told realistically that her odds are extremely slim. </p>

12

<p>I’ve learned one good thing from this thread…as slim as my kid’s chances are at some of her colleges, at least she’s not applying from Hong Kong. It sounds brutal! And good luck to you all,…there is a good and realistic ideas here…</p>

13

<p>OP, @"aunt bea"‌ is right that the UCs won’t give you a dime, so it’ll cost you the same, if not less if you apply for financial aid elsewhere, to go to a private school.</p>

<p>I understand why you want to give Harvard a shot - you won’t know if you don’t try - so I support you in that decision. But if I were you, I’d actually wait until RD to apply to Harvard. It’s harder to get in EA than RD, so you’re not increasing your chances like with ED. I’d apply EA to something with a realistic chance (eg UMich cause it’s more about SAT scores there), in the hopes that you get good news in December and don’t have to waste time on safeties for RD, so you’ll get to spend more time on Harvard + other apps.</p>

<p>But honestly, all the best of luck to you.</p>

14

<p>I am from Hong Kong and went to school there. I currently live in the Phillipines because my military family got posted there. I think your statistics are excellent. Apply early action for sure and you have a much better shot. My stats are similiar to yours but i went to an international school. You will not get in regular decision, the acceptance rate is around 3 percent. You have 3 800 sat iis and a high sat 1 score. If you dont even think you are good enough to apply, who is? You can get into cornell/rice regular round anyway… Might as well reach for harvard early.</p>

15

<p>^^ Those are “predicted” scores not actual ones.</p>

16

<p>Don’t bother with the Chinese SAT II. Scenario #1: you get 800 and the admissions officers are unimpressed because you grew up in HK. Scenario #2: you get < 800 and the admissions officers are even less impressed because despite growing up in HK you don’t have a solid command of Chinese.</p>

<p>< 800 on any subject would give you a better application than an 800 on Chinese.</p>

17

<p>sorry didn’t realise that they were predicted. look at who got in class of 2018… their grades and sats aren’t as good as yours. the average sat score for the class of 2018 is around 2230… roll the dice and apply early.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>I believe I saw that the average Asian score was 2305 (might be wrong but not going to look it up). Once again, his/her scores are “predicted” and the applicant is coming from one of the most competitive areas in the world. I wouldn’t be so quick to have him/her “roll the dice and apply early”. Especially, since they have no idea what their eventual test scores will be.</p>

19

<p>I’ve been warned already about the minimum chances but really, its just the bet and all of you guys are talking about SAT scores @.@ can anyone talk about essays because they are really crucial too and I’ve won writing competitions so I believe I can nail this too :confused: Back to SAT, yes they are predicted scores, but I have done the practices from Barron’s to Princeton and the past papers and the scores are improving prominently, that is only for SAT I. For II, may I really know what is Mathematics II? Is it calculus?
I really want to give a hearty thanks for you all, those who support or wave my dream. Harvard is just one of the choices, I have backups of course.</p>

20

<p>Dear @mshang852 its really nice to hear from someone like you, but to think that you are generations before me, I suppose everything has changed, typically the education system and requirements. I get most people warn me that I’m obviously dreaming like any international student, I guess there is no wrong in that. I keep doing practices for my SAT so yeh, despite it being a predicted score it is still a score I’m aiming, and I keep trying to write the perfect essay, of course not just for Harvard. I am not certain about Rice now, due to fee waiver problems, they are only applicable for permanent US residents, so I’ll go for Brown and the others. Thank you, I really hope you can share more on how you got in :)</p>