International student - what are my chances?

<p>School: small private liberal
Grade: currently in 12th
Age: 17
Gender: male
Ethnicity: Asian
Location: international</p>

<p>Academics
GPA: 4.0
SAT: haven't done it yet
SAT II Math IIC: 800
SAT II Physics: 800
SAT II Chemistry: 780
AP Calculus: 5
AP Chemistry: 5
AP Physics: 5
AP Statistics: 5</p>

<p>I came top of my grade two years in a row.
Winner of the Mathematics, Physics, English and Sports Essay prizes.</p>

<p>Soloist and concertmaster of my school orchestra, winner of school concerto competition and numerous music awards, recipient of Associate musicianship honors
School representative debating team captain – 1st grade
Academic support committee member
QCS student leader
Editor of the school’s literary magazine
Founder and president of a school discussion forum
Vice-president of my class, student representative council member
Debating coach for a junior team
Senior leadership position: 8th grade class mentor</p>

<p>I am in my final year and about to take my SAT. What score would be best if I want to get into Harvard, Yale or MIT?</p>

<p>even with a 2400, chances r still slim</p>

<p>How come? could you tell me what i'm missing?</p>

<p>One word: international.</p>

<p>I've known people who get 2400+2400 (SAT I/SAT II Phy/Chem/Math) and went to RSI (the MIT science research camp) still getting rejected by MIT due to the fact that they are international students.</p>

<p>I can say with certainty that a guy from my school got into Harvard last year. His Academics/ECs were similar to mine. Isn't there a quota that takes a couple of people from each country? Actually, I've heard that quite a few (50 or so) from my country (Australia) get into a top Ivy league school each year.</p>

<p>But if there's no such thing as a quota, how would I raise my chances of getting in?</p>

<p>umm, i really wish about 50 people from Australia made it, but i dnt think that statistic is close to being right.
each school is restricted to a max of 8% international students. At MIT, i know that only about 1-2 students are accepted from the Aus/NZ region. In fact, in the past few years, its only been 1 from Australia, and 1 from NZ (if lucky). Hence, even if u assume that about 4-5 Australians (which is a very large percentage of their international quota, in ratio with the Australian applicant pool) are accepted by each "top" ivy league, then thats still only about 25 students - and thats with a very very optimistic assumption.
So i wouldnt say that "quite a few" make the top schools, only a very selected and gifted few do.</p>

<p>By the way, which school do u go to? I don't know of any schools in Melbourne with an AP curriculum. Unless obviously u took them on your own.</p>

<p>So you're saying that only one or two students get into each of HYP, etc every year? Let's talk optimistically here - what are my chances of getting into that one or two?</p>

<p>Btw, I studied the APs myself, yes.</p>

<p>Might wanna work on the community service? I didn't see too much of that on your first post. I think that would help your chances even greater.</p>

<p>Yale - 30%
Harvard - 20%
MIT - 20%</p>

<p>[url="<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/507610-foreign-student-i-m-hypms-right.html%22%5Dhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/507610-foreign%5B/url"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/507610-foreign-student-i-m-hypms-right.html"]http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/what-my-chances/507610-foreign[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

<p>I noticed that this guy's got similar stats to mine, but how come people rate him with a higher chance?</p>

<p>For example,</p>

<p>
[quote]
that is a kickass resume. If you get rejected for these schools then the competition is even more rediculous than i thought.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>He's also an international but I don't get what's different.</p>

<p>well I know that i was the only Australian to make MIT and quite possibly Stanford as well. I made princeton and Wharton as well. Of all ivies, i think Upenn takes the most Australians, frankly because of a lot of aussies are attracted to its reputable Business program.
Now for ur evaluation. Honestly, even though u have the same SATII scores, u still seem better than me academically. I just couldnt be bothered studying for the APs but i did do Maths at melbourne uni, and received HDs (90%). I got a VCE score of 99.9 ... The fact that you did the APs shows that ur committed, which is crucial. SO academically u are fine. Trust me. Just make sure ur SATs are about the 2100 mark...thats enough. (i know internationals who made ivies wiht 2000)...
however, your ECs just dont seem to dislay anythin significant and rare. They are very good, but they arent good enough to impress. Rumour has it that IVYs really look into Leadership.
See, what these schools want is a student who can handle the courseload, and do numerous activities as well. Most applicants pass the first category, but its the latter thats used to shortlist applicants. U need to show them that u can do all the things u love as well as get good grades. The key is passion and the ability to manage time well enough that u can do everything u want.
Do tell me which school you're studying in. It helps to evaluate the student's circumstances and opportunities available. I mean if you are only able to do this at a school like Scotch, then its not half as impressive if you do this at a local government school with a lack of resources.</p>

<p>and the reason that the Singaporean dude seems more impressive than u is because Singapore is known for its cut-throat academic competition whereas Australia isnt. Therefore, his scores and percentiles (especially) are more impressive.
But don't underestimate simple ECs such as community service. This is where most other international applicants are different to applicants from south-asian countries. The fact that our education isn't as competitive, and that our schools and society places a far greater emphasis on ECs, makes it possible for us to experience the non-textbook form of education. The admissions panel will know all about this, so do not hesitate. Instead, just do the things that you are passionate about, and you should atleast make the universities i made.</p>

<p>Sorry to burst any bubbles, but reality shock: I think you're chances at the schools you listed are slim to nonexistent.</p>

<p>You are, no doubt, a wonderful student. But here's the truth: students with 2400's, perfect SAT II's, 4.0s, and a list of ECs get rejected from HYP all the time. And those are students in the US.</p>

<p>The other foreigner may have a similar academic record but by no means do you two share similar records. The other candidate, like you, has expressed himself acadmically but also shows remarkable uniqueness in his ECs. He's done nationally recognized work and unique, impressive ECs. While your list of ECs isn't horrible( if fact, it is very good), there is nothing noteworthy. Ask yourself this: why would HYP pick you over the thousands of VERY similar applicants in the US who boast the same stats and activities? If you doubt my words, look around CC, at the many posts and you'll notice remarkable similiarity between your stats and those of other US students. </p>

<p>So, if you carried those stats and were a student in the US, I would still say your chances are slim. But, now you have even more odds placed against you- as an international asian, you are an overrepresented minority. While you compete against the other Australians for a spot, think also of the many Koreans and other students who apply to the same schools- they have FLAWLESS academic stats, so despite working hard( because I know it requires so much hard work to maintain and achieve those grades), when applying, your academic record shouldn't factor in to you as a "get-in" or "good" factor because in the slew of applications, it will not stand out. And therein lies your problem- you do not stand out as applicant. You have done nothing, as you presented( rhetoric is key!), that seems noteworthy or significant. Another problem is the fact that you are a math/science concentrated student and that tightens the odds even further- there are so many math/science applicants with similar ECs and stats- you HAVE to distinguish yourself from them or you WILL be shot down. </p>

<p>I would suggest applying to more schools because even if you were a very impressive candidate, the odds placed against an Austrialian international are hefty and nearly impossible. While that student who you know by association may seem to lift your spirits and make you believe there is a good shot, look at this realistically. Apply to more realistic schools because everyone wants to go to HYPS because of the "great academics" or "wonderful instition" or "intellectually stimulating student body"--read PRESTIGE. Have you researched the schools? Do you know what programs you would want to study- what attracts you to the school? The climate or a notable annually held festival or a certain class? Do you know what the dorm room looks like? Have you talked to alumni in detail about not just the acadmics but social atmosphere( and no, this doesn't mean just clubs or bars if you're thinking you don't care about the social climate)- this means, you could be living here! I feel that most kids just want the schools because they have heard of it and they know of the prestige and such. You have written nothing in your stats to separate yourself from those students- and colleges will sniff that out.</p>

<p>That said, you do have a very good academic standing. If you expand your EC's and stand out, you, as any other, have a shot. Don't let this be too much of a downer- if you can do one thing, ONE THING, that is significant, remarkable, then you have really done what you can do for your application and the rest is up to the universities to work out the other factors( diversity quota, location, student body needs,etc.).</p>

<p>Thanks Sidfromaus and Scared4College, for the insightful comments. I do realise that to get in you need something special that sets you apart from other applicants. Whilst I do not have anything mindblowing I think that my music will boost my resume. I achieved my AmusA in violin last year with honours. I reached the semi-finals of the National Youth Concerto Comp. last year. So I'll be submitting a CD compilation of recordings.</p>

<p>As for leadership, if you look at my original post at least 3 of them are leadership positions. I may have neglected to mention that I am a prefect at my school. Or are such things insufficient? (ie. do you have to be valedictorian, school captain, etc.?)</p>

<p>wow...and i thought i was being harsh. Leadership doesnt neccesarily come with a position. WHat i mean is...being a prefect, school captain or in the SRC isnt all that you can do to impress them of your leadership qualities. It can be anything, starting compulsory community service as part of the curriculum or organising a fund raiser with Red Cross.
Look, MANY students with 2400s do get rejected. But thats because they don't have a distinguished passion that they are able to project. I do NOT agree with Scared4college at all. U have a chance...a slimmer chance than American students, but a definite chance.
I am just glad that Scared4college didnt evaluate me...:P
i know hes trying to help you, but hes just too cynical. Although, he does raise a good point. The universities you should consider most are the ones that suit your style of learning and provide the best opportunities. Do not fall for the ivy leagues just for prestige. That said, do apply to the Ivy leagues for the sake of it.
I applied to all the good ivy leagues and the other top schools, but in the end, went for the school i thought resembled my high school most - where i had the best times of my life.
If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. But do look for that certain passion in your life...even if it is somethin like dancing or AFL or a cultural group...just make sure u can portray your personality through your application and not what you think is an ideal student.</p>

<p>PS: After reading Scared4college's comments, i really really feel good about myself - being quite the average applicant and proving him wrong.</p>

<p>I'm so sorry! I realized, after reading it through, I was extremely harsh!!!!!</p>

<p>I shouldn't be that critical- I mean, who am I to judge, right? Your stats are like 234908230498230493824093 better than mine. LOL. I guess it's just that I do get tired of perfect GPA students who think because of their academic record, they can get into HYPS and top schools. I don't want to get you down- you are a very, very good applicant. I just wasn't sure if you were fully aware of the odds placed against you- I find that students are sometimes very shocked when they hear of rejections because they were valedictorians, 2400's, perfect GPA, volunteering, club leaders,etc. but don't realize that out of the thousands of schools in america, all have a valedictorian and top ten students. And those thousands of valedictorians aply to top ivies- obviously, they all can't get in!</p>

<p>What I was trying to stress is that while academics is certainly crucial and the primary focus, ivies use EC's as the determinant because they have so many overly qualified acadmically wonderfull students. I was trying to put things a bit more into perspective but I guess I came off to cynical and harsh. I'm really sorry- I know this is such a hard process and I guess I do deal with with extreme cynicism since I have convinced myself that I will have a very hard time getting into top schools. </p>

<p>Keep doing well and focus on your ECs!</p>

<p>Good luck!!!</p>

<p>There are probably about 100 (U.S. at least) students applying to schools with 4780-4800 on SAT and three II's. If they had great grades and great EC's, they would be accepted. Test scores don't guarantee admission, but there's this myth that loads of 2400s get rejected all the time. That's not true. According to College Board, only ~270 got 2400s. I doubt superscoring raises that number significantly. Getting perfect or near-perfect (2380+) is a hook, and if the rest of your resume is solid, I'd be hard-pressed to convince myself that Ivies would not grab those applicants, especially with perfect subject scores. Just a thought.</p>

<p>EC's are nothing to write home about, but you have great academics. Don't worry excessively about test scores - if they're not hooks, they just need to be in the range I think.</p>

<p>each school is restricted to a max of 8% international students. </p>

<p>this is not true.</p>

<p>I will be working on my ECs this year. What things do I need to do more? I know community service for one...</p>

<p>What do you need to do more? Things which you're actually passionate about.</p>