International Students.

Colleges and Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
1

<p>I noticed that the chances for international students seemed to be significantly lower than those for national ones (as in applied:admitted ratio).</p>

<p>Can anyone make it clear why this is so? I'm an international applicant with pretty good stats - though comparatively to what I see here I'm not all that great, I probably still have the highest SAT scores in my country.</p>

<p>Are less international applicants admitted because, for example, their applications are generally poorer? After all, many international applicants are not nearly as conditioned by their schools or parents for entering universities as US students. Or is it something less comforting, such as falling on the wayside of the Affirmative Action scheme?</p>

2

<p>International applicants who apply to MIT are just as stellar as American students as these int'l students are usually the best and the brightest of their respective country.This is just my opinion but I think the acceptance rate is lower because of the international quota MIT has. The quota is set to have only 8% of an MIT class to be composed of international students. Since MIT is need-blind, they have to provide int'l students with a lot of financial aid. Since they can only provide for up to 8% of international students, that's the number for the int'l quota.</p>

3

<p>I disagree that the international applicants are necessarily the best and brightest in their respective countries. In most developed countries the top high schol students will generally not have as their first choice a US university. In the UK, they will generally go for Oxbridge, in France the top Grandes Ecoles, in Japan, Tokyo University etc. These dometic schools simply provide much greater access to top jobs upon graduation. You also cannot easily enter professional schools such as med or law schools in those countries after college in the US as the systems are so different. It is a very different story at the graduate level where many top students do see the US as the best destination. This does not mean that most of the international undergraduate applicants are not qualified and certainly some of them are top caliber. </p>

<p>But as explained above, MIT and other Ivies now provide need blind aid to all admitted students and with a limited budget for financial aid, they will allocate most of it to domestic applicants. Graduate students pay for themselves through research or get grants from their governments and are therefore not a financial burden on the school. Contrast the 8% undergrad international enrollment with the near 50% at the graduate level at MIT.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
I disagree that the international applicants are necessarily the best and brightest in their respective countries. In most developed countries the top high schol students will generally not have as their first choice a US university. In the UK, they will generally go for Oxbridge, in France the top Grandes Ecoles, in Japan, Tokyo University etc. These dometic schools simply provide much greater access to top jobs upon graduation.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would choose MIT over IIT any day.</p>

5

<p>I would also choose MIT over Tokyo University any day.</p>

6

<p>Yeah, as an international EC, I see lots of folks who for a variety of reasons, some excellent, some crappy, would rather do their undergraduate education abroad in the US.</p>

<p>Some just want to get away from parents, some are genuinely undecided about what they want to study (Oxbridge admits into specific departments), some are looking for a more liberal arts education that is available here. It is a gross generalisation to suggest that the best and brightest always want a local education. It is also wrong.</p>

7

<p>IIT sucks! I would choose Illinois Inst of Tech over Indian one any day! :D</p>

8

<p>I can't comment on India. My reference was to Western Europe and Japan. You generally won't find their top students as undergrads in the US, only as grad students.</p>

9

<p>Again, I cannot talk to Japan, or the rest of Europe, but as a UK-based EC, I regularly see top students who would rather go to MIT than Oxbridge. Now, of course, I am still only seeing a minute percentage of all top students, but I reject absolutely the idea that the best and the brightest don't want to leave home.</p>

10

<p>The issue is not whether they may "want" to. The fact is that they don't actually leave. Why would they? </p>

<p>-The US high school system is at least a full year behind, so they would essentially waste an entire year. In Europe, students have already completed their liberal arts education in high school. They go to university to specialize.<br>
-Second, their education in Europe is essentially free. Why would they want to spend $40K/year while getting even further behind?
-Third, there is actually no evidence the undergrad education is any better in the US even at the top level. MIT undergrads are no more advanced than the Cambridge students for instance. When MIT students go to Cambridge as part of the junior year exchange program, they generally take Tripos 1B classes which is part of the second year program at Cambridge.</p>

<p>As I said, grad school is another matter. Everybody recognizes the US has by far better opportunities and resources.</p>

11

<p>The US offers a liberal arts education, this can be very useful if the student does not know precisely what it is that they want to study. This is particularly true if your major is not something offered in High School (say Mechanical Engineering, or Archaeology).</p>

<p>If a student is accepted to read Archaeology at Cambridge, and decides after one year that Archaeology is not for them, then that year is essentially wasted and they can reapply at Cambridge or somewhere else to read something else the next year.</p>

<p>The MIT education in any field is not better than the best in Europe, in many cases it is more limited. As a Physics major at Oxbridge, almost all of your courses will be in Physics. This means that you will almost certainly read more physics in your three years on campus than an MIT physics major does in their four years. You will get a more specialised, more focused, and often deeper education at a UK university at the deliberate cost of breadth. As you say, people go to a UK undergraduate university to specialise.</p>

<p>Many UK students who know for certain what they want to specialise in are better off at Oxbridge. Those who don't, or are not completely sure, are usually better off at a US university.</p>

<p>As to the fees. That is another issue.
Tuition at most UK universities is 3000 pounds sterling next year for an EU student, roughly 11000 pounds for an overseas student depending on major. Living expenses (room/board/books) vary depending on location. University College London for example recommends budgeting 9800 pounds per year. Plus there are other fees for example, you pay to attend your graduation ceremony, to recieve certain degrees and so on, which are included in the MIT cost. So the cost of the "free" education in the UK is around $25000 US dollars per year for a UK student, and USD $40000 for an overseas student.</p>

<p>This is substantially cheaper than the USD $46350 per year charged by MIT. However, over 90% of MIT undergraduates recieve financial aid (source: SFS website), whereas that number is much, much lower in the UK. Whereas Oxford Opportunity Bursaries and the like are available to low income applicants, the overwhelming majority of UK students do not receive financial assistance.</p>

<p>Now I am not suggesting for a moment that most of the brightest UK students do not go to UK universities. However, I am saying that it is not a foregone conclusion, and every year I interview some very bright UK students who have chosen to apply to MIT.</p>

12

<p>As a comparison point, Pembroke College at Oxford estimates room, board and other expenses at between 5,200 and 6,900 pounds per year or about twice that in dollars. With tuition at 3,000 pounds the total annual cost at a typical Oxford university is between $16,400 and $19,800 dollars. </p>

<p>Every student, indpendent of family income gets an automatic student loan for the entire $6,000 tuition to be repaid after they finish school and start making an income. They also get an automatic $6,600 annual student loan for room and board. Additional need based grants are also provided for incomes up to $75,000 in income. In the worst case, students will have about $38,000 in student loans after graduating in 3 years. The average is generally much less. </p>

<p>Unlike MIT, most Oxford Colleges also offer various forms of merit scholarships. At worst out-of-pocket cost is between $4,000 and $6,000 per year, often covered through work-study or summer jobs. </p>

<p>At MIT, 58% receive need based aid, averaging $23,000 per student. This leaves and EFC of about $25,000 on average, for students on financial aid to be financed between loans and parent contribution or a minimum of $100,000 over 4 years. Considering that 42% receive no need-based aid, the average cost is considerably more. </p>

<p>In conclusion, you are really talking about a 3 to 1 cost differential at a minimum between an education at MIT versus Oxford or Cambridge, international travel costs not included. It would be much worse at most other US universities as MIT is one of the only schools to be need blind for international applicants.</p>

13

<p>The admit rate for internationals is approx 5%... sucks to be us.</p>

14

<p>actually for clas of '10 it's 4%.
2500 people going for 100 spots.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
The admit rate for internationals is approx 5%... sucks to be us.

[/quote]

I would be glad if admit rate for my pool would be 5%; Currently it's 0.625%. 800 applicants for at most 5 places.</p>

<p>[For Non-Indians, admit rate this year would be greater than 5.8%{1700 applicants for 95 places}]</p>

16

<p>how do u know how many ppl from each country apply?
Does MIT distribute this data?</p>

17

<p>I've heard ppl from India ranting the 800-thing, but there's no definitve source coz MIT han't ever released country-wise distribution of applicants....</p>

18

<p>It was unofficially mentioned in an admissions blog entry.</p>

<p>Of course, I doubt that it means there's really going to be a situation like 'sorry, we can't take you, we've got five already; hard luck, old thing'. If they want six, they'll probably take six. Worry about your qualifications, not statistics.</p>

<p>(Keep in mind that I'm just another applicant and don't know anything about admissions beyond intelligent guessing, though, so I could be totally wrong.)</p>

19

<p>No, Noldo, you're completely right. There is no country-by-country quota; the only quota that exists is for international students overall.</p>

20

<p>That's very good to know, Mollie; thank you for clearing that one up!</p>