Hello everyone, I am new to this board and this is my very first post. My apologies for such a long post, but I am feeling a little overwhelmed. I hope I can find a few compassionate parents to read my thoughts and respond.
My daugher will be a H.S. junior this upcoming school year. She is a “band geek” and has a GPA of 3.8. We are Hawai’i residents (she’s been exposed to the ocean her entire life). As such, she loves marine animals and intends to persue her undergrad in Marine Biology. Our local univeristy, the Univeristy of Hawai’i, is naturally a good choice!! However, her heart is set on the Univeristy of Queensland in Australia because of its access to the Great Barrier Reef (assuming she is accepted). The cost of this school- especially compared to our affordable in-state tuition- is astronomical (at least for us, that is expensive). In-state Hawai’i in-state tuition is about $10,872 USD per year for a 4 year program. On the other hand, The University of Queensland international student tuition rate is about $29,475 USD per year for a 3 year program. Not to mention, here in Hawai’i, she could continue to live at home and will save money on every aspect of college life. If she attends the University of Queensland, on top of the tuition price, we will have to pay so much money for her dorm, food, transporation, and everything that is associated with living on one’s own.
I am trying to determine if the cost of this international university is “worth it.” What I mean is that here in the U.S., we have our high-ranking schools, such as Harvard, Standford, Yale, Dartmouth, etc. If my daugher were to be admitted into that level of a univeristy, I would gladly do whatever it took to ensure that she could attend. I’d work two jobs, apply for every grant and scholarship I could find. However, I have been unable to find a Univeristy of Queensland equivalent comparison of the prestige and ranking to that of a U.S. university. From what I understand, we would be very limited to grants and scholarships for an international school, meaning we would pay for almost the entire tuition cost out of pocket.
My questions are: Does anyone have any advice on how I can determine if this international school is a presigious “enough” univeristy in which going into debt for is worth the cost? I would do whatever it took for her to attend if I knew that this shcool was the Australian equivalent to that of a top ranking U.S. school. Any advice from you all would be greatly appreciated!!
I wouldn’t borrow $200k for an undergrad degree. Lots of kids have dream schools. The life after college should be the dream, not the college, and a life of crippling debt isn’t a life I’d wish on my child.
Thank you for your response, and especially for looking up those links for me. Yes, I did look at these ranking lists online, but I was still confused to it’s “equivalent” U.S. level of prestige, if this makes any sense. For example, on that link, the University of Queensland is the third top rated university in Australia. Our top third is Stanford. Surely, this does not mean that UQ is really as prestigious as Stanford? In my mind, because Australia has far fewer universities than we in the U.S. do, the UQ, although high-ranking in Australia, does not mean it is necessarily the “Stanford of Australia.” I’m not sure that I’m explaining my question/scenario very accurately.
Thanks for your response! Actually, that crippling debt would be mine/my husbands’s. I don’t want her to start her adult life with debt, so I’d like to be the one to pay for her school. I’d definitely take on that debt if it meant an extremely top-ranking school. I just don’t want to take on that enormous debt if it is not a particularly prestigious school. I agree with what you said, the life after college should be the dream. Well said!! Thanks again.
Some of the answer is dependent on what you and your daughter want to get out of the college degree. If the main priority is the experience for 4 years, then that’s very subjective. If she’s looking at increased prestige as a way to translate that degree into increased earnings, my guess is that this is not likely in that field.
We have a world class marine research facility locally and I know several of the lead scientists there in various fields. There is no polite way to describe this, so I’ll be blunt - the pay stinks. Marine biology draws a much larger number of students and even volunteers than there are jobs available so supply vastly outpaces demand and there isn’t much money for funding and supporting the research. So you end up with scientists with PhDs working for peanuts.
If your daughter truly wants to be in this field, she should prepare for a life of simple living, which is fine if you know of that tradeoff in advance. There is no way in heck I’d take on college debt to get a degree in a field that is so competitive and pays so little, no matter how prestigious the degree was. YMMV.
Look more closely at the listings. The OVERALL top ranked ones show the Top university outside of the US coming in 5th. But that doesn’t really mean much for specific majors.
I can’t see any college being worth an additional $200K for a similar level of instruction.
Have you looked at the study abroad options through the local University in Hawaii? Is there the potential that she could study at the Australian school for a semester or year? Maybe if not that school, something comparable? That could be a good and far more affordable compromise.
I’m pretty sure lightning is going to strike me for saying this, but even if my kid was admitted to “Harvard, Standford [sic], Yale, Dartmouth” I wouldn’t pay $200k for a degree where even if her wildest dreams come true and she gets a plum job, she’ll barely be self-supporting. If my child was planning to go into a field where she’ll be fighting tooth and nail to get a job that pays approximately minimum wage for 3-5 years with hopes she’ll someday get a higher level position in the field paying as much as $40k - $50k a year, I’d be looking for the most cost effective degree possible and making sure she really understood the implications of the lifestyle s/he is choosing rather than looking to borrow to fund the dream.
Does she plan to work in the US or Australia after graduation? If the US, why would she want to study the marine life of Australia? She would be much better off to study the marine life of the area where she wants to work.
The USNWR Global ranking is predominantly based on research output ranking and “reputation” pretty much based on that. It’s not like the USNWR’s Undergraduate ranking of the U.S. colleges. Still, you can gauge what you call “prestige” from the global ranking, I suppose.
Having said that, the University of Queensland in Australia is no Stanford, not by reputation over there and especially not over here. In my opinion, having your daughter attend the UQ in Australia would give her priceless experience and personal fulfillment and enrichment, and sending her there should be based more on those factors and her academic interests and not on “prestige.” Then, ask yourself whether being in $200,000 debt is worth it or not.
I really like the study abroad option. Most schools have an arrangement where you pay your normal fees to the home university and maybe a study abroad fee. So if she does a year in Australia in that system you’d pay your Hawai’i tuition to U Hawai’i and maybe a grand for study abroad, and attend the University in Australia without paying 40k. Do the research ahead of time by searching if that is an option at Hawai’i to study abroad at Queensland.
While philosophically, I believe everyone is entitled to their opinions, they don’t need to make you feel bad for seeing things differently. I applaud your stance to help your child reach their dream at your expense. If you spend much time on CC, you’ll see plenty of people telling you that an undergrad isn’t worth paying that price… But in the end, only you can determine if the value you get by helping your kid reach their dream is worth the price your are paying. (be prepared for the onslaught of negative replies to my post for stating this)
My understanding is that marine biology is an area where you need a graduate degree. You have a very good program at your local university which is very affordable.
I also really like the option of taking a semester or a year abroad. One of my daughters did this in high school, loved it and did well, and doing something similar in university seems just as good if not in many ways better.
If your daughter wanted to go on to a very highly ranked graduate school as a graduate from the University of Hawaii, then she would need to be one of the top undergraduate students at the U of H, with strong grades and strong references. However, this sounds entirely possible, and even highly likely to happen.
As such this looks easy at least to me: IMHO she should attend U of H, work hard and get very good grades. She should very seriously consider taking a semester or a year abroad (whether in Australia or elsewhere). Then she should look for a higher ranked university with a strong program in her major for graduate school.
One thing that I wonder about: Here in the “connected 48” states, and in particular living in New England where there are a huge number of universities nearby, it is normal for high school seniors to apply to 6 or 8 or 10 universities. One friend of a daughter applied to 25. Do high school students in Hawaii normally apply to a very small number of universities, simply because there aren’t very many that are nearby?
Is there some reason to think she should be looking at top schools? You have no test scores? Her GPA is 3.8 as a sophomore, what sort of classes is she taking?
I would look at UQ as a nice state school, with great party potential. Not a top state school at all either. The international target market for UQ is (was) Asia and many of these students get a residency status after graduation, that in itself makes international rates a bargain. Not a real hook for a US citizen.
I have an undergrad degree in oceanography (earth & ocean sciences), finished my PhD last year, and now teach as a lecturer. I came here to make both of the above points. The career prospects in marine biology are abysmal for those with PhDs and even more so for those with only undergrad degrees. Minimize debt as much as possible. Run, don’t walk, toward an affordable option for undergrad. If U Hawaii is not to her liking, consider one of the other excellent options among the WICHE/WUE schools, like Western Washington, Humboldt State, or one of the other CSUs.
If she’s interested in Australian marine fauna, there are many excellent study abroad options in Australia. James Cook in particular is a superb option for marine science.
Regardless of the college she attends, she should take advantage of the many REU programs in oceanography. It was the REU program I did after my sophomore year that really prepared me for graduate school, I think.
I always recommend that any student interested in marine biology get as broad an education in the sciences as possible. You don’t need a marine biology as an undergrad or even to study at a college on the coast; there are hundreds of colleges that provide perfectly good preparation for PhD programs in marine science.
If she attends an American school, picking up a minor or second major in something like CS or GIS/geography would benefit her career prospects enormously. As a rising high school junior, she still has plenty of time to settle on majors, though.
Outside of a few well known universities/colleges, few international universities have much “prestige” in the US. I wouldn’t worry about prestige. Focus on the quality of the education (will it prepare her for the next step) and cost.
By the way, other than Study abroad programs, you can also look into student exchange programs (Mānoa International Exchange). These are a bit different, as you pay UoH tuition, while enrolled at the foreign Universities. The credits earned are transfer credits and don’t impact your UoH cumulative GPA.
Not worth it. She will be turning down a well ranked program, spending a ton of money, and making it hard to come home. Plus, the truth is, it isn’t like a tropical island there – you can’t just put on your mask and flippers and go. It takes some time in a boat to get to the reef. I don’t think it is the experience she imagines.
Or, she can just go on exchange, even if it costs you some money.
Also the reef in Australia as one might imagine it might soon enough be a thing of the past. And if money is ever an issue the COL in Australia is off the charts. You need 18K in your hand to get into the country. UQ is in Brisbane, Australia is one big country. It is over 1100 Ks to the reef from Brisbane. Does she have a grasp on the actual geography?
