@greenbutton, anyone adopted from China (among other countries) entered the U.S. for the first time with a passport from the birth country. But it does sound pretty crazy, what she was told and not told. What a shame. Perhaps when you feel it’s appropriate, you could tell her that you’d be happy to help her find out whatever she wants to know.
I would think she should be able to obtain a Certificate of Foreign birth by using her passport and her COC.
A certificate of foreign birth is issued by a state, like a birth certificate, and it’s really quite useless as it doesn’t prove citizenship. I used it once or twice to register my daughter for something but it looked different than a state birth certificate (vertical, not horizontal, and had different information on it) so it was questioned. It was just easier to use the passport for everything. To get one without the original birth certificate from the foreign country might be difficult. I got my daughter’s after her ‘re-adoption’ in my state (some require this, others don’t), but to do the readoption I had to submit all the adoption papers.
On the C of C, it says it is illegal to copy it for purposes of proving citizenship. It is not illegal to make a copy and often places do after viewing the original (like college financial aid offices). Our adoption agency wanted a copy because they wanted to make sure we were all applying for citizenship (old days, when not automatic). The copy wasn’t to prove citizenship but to prove they saw the original.
It will definitely NOT void the adoption and the copy police will not come out to arrest you, it’s just that the copy is not valid for anything. When my daughter got her first passport, I had to send the original C of C to the passport agency. It wasn’t good enough for the guy at the post office to just look at the original and make a copy because we were trying to prove citizenship to get the passport. The adoption may have been finalized in the birth country under those laws and nothing the US government could do to void the adoption finalized in another country. The C of C doesn’t award the adoption, it is the proof of US citizenship.
I’m sure there was not only a birth certificate but adoption certificates and other paperwork for the C of C. The mother would have needed those to get a visa to get into the US. To get the C of C, you had to submit all the paperwork with the application for citizenship. Now, post 2001, that’s all obtained before the visa is issued to come into the US. If FDIL has the C of C, at some point some US officials saw the birth certificate and the adoption certificates.
She should be okay using the passport as an ID or even just her driver’s license. I really suggest she use ONE birth date and stick with it. SSN, passport, driver’s license, etc all with the same birth date, same spelling of her name, same info. And I’d use the one on the C of C because it is easier to change info with the SSA or state DL office, but almost impossible to change the C of C.
The US doesn’t require cancellation of the citizenship of the birth country but those other countries might cancel their citizenship by requesting the passport back or clipping the corner (invalidating) when requesting a visa to travel to that country. Some of the European or eastern Block countries require the child to maintain citizenship in their country until the 18 birthday, so if you travel to those counties the child has to use the original passport.
In order to get a US passport, the mom would have had to send in the adoption documents, actual raised seal originals and not copies. I know for us that scary sending off all those originals, but in both cases they were returned.
I didn’t have to send in the adoption documents for a passport. I sent the original C of C (which was scary and the post office guy put it in a special envelope so it wouldn’t be stapled or folded because he saw me practically passing out at the idea of giving him the document). After the Child Citizenship act became effective, you could get a passport with the “A” visa stamp in the original passport so then the issue became whether you wanted to submit the original passport or the C of C. I picked the C of C because it could be replaced if lost ($$$) but the original passport? Nope.
The mother may not have any adoption certificates or birth certificates if she submitted the originals when she applied for the C of C. You are NOT supposed to file the originals but some people do. When I went to the citizenship appointment at the INS (now USCIS) they had a copy of everything I submitted and made me turn in the original Green Card, but everything else was a copy.
I think the bride to be should start working on her mother, showing her the list of documents she’ll need to get married (or even get a driver’s license in the future). She should just say they need to work together to create a paper file.
I did work with a guy who was a US citizen but who had married a woman from some Island country (Marshall? Marianas?) and the issue was with her two children whom he had adopted but in an informal way. At some point someone had filed an I-600 or I-600A (or I- 400?) and they had either been denied or expired, and you cannot file a second one (a very strange part of the procedures). He was trying to retire and wanted his kids to get his SS benefits. We went round and round and finally I suggested he just try to get US passports for them under the Child Citizenship Act using the “A” stamp in their passports because they had entered the US legally when he transferred back to the states to work for the government. It worked. I do not think there are ‘good’ adoption papers for the transactions that took place but somehow he got them into the US, they returned to the Island, and they have US passports and get US benefits.
^ I guess maybe we had to send in the adoption documents as we didn’t have a CofC. We got a passport for my son ASAP in 2001 as we were planning to go to Canada in September (right after 9/11 ironically) so I could get laser surgery on my eyes.
^^And I’ve heard stories of different passport agents requiring different paperwork. I know we’ve been lucky as we’ve never had a problem getting a passport (I think she’s on her 4th) and always just used the old one to get the next one, no problems getting a DL, never asked for any proof for student loans, no mix up at the SSA, etc.
I do think some of it is my death stare at the clerks. “Here are the docs your application requests.” I always took the application and highlighted what it wanted and what document I was using to meet that requirement. I had the other documents with me, but was never asked for them and didn’t offer them up.
I am reading these past dozen comments very thankful that I listened to all those who posted horror stories and worst case scenarios when I brought home my daughter in 2002. Even though the law had changed and she was an automatic citizen as soon as the plane touched down, I was told the paperwork would take a few years to catch up, and sure enough we were still given a green card instead of citizenship card. I waited in a very long line in LA to get a citizenship interview for that certificate of citizenship the month after I returned and I also went through all the paperwork and court date with the judge to received a delayed registration of birth from the State of California to get a birth certificate, and then got a passport. I don’t think you can be too safe when it comes to citizenship. Even if no one questioned my daughter today, I still wouldn’t trust that there would be some new requirement that would question her documentation.
My son, adopted from overseas in 2001, does not have a CoC. A US passport proves citizenship. We’ve used it many times. I was under that impression that the poster upthread was trying to help her FDIL obtain some documents with birthdate, etc… The young lady already has a US passport so her citizenship will not be in question. Her mom definitely had to have had adoption documents, birth certificate, etc. to obtain the passport in the first place.
Contact your congress peraon, senator etc. They know how to deal with dificult agencies
When my D19 started applying to colleges last fall, she was notified that her citizenship status was not confirmed by the SS administration. We went to our local office with her passport and it was all cleared up… we thought.
She’s now been accepted to four colleges, three of whom were fine with her citizenship status. The fourth college wants to her sign an affidavit (and have it notarized!) that she is a citizen. Oh and they won’t have her financial aid package ready until next month.
Has anyone encountered this?
“I swear I am a citizen.” Oh, if only that is all that is required to prove citizenship!! That’s just busy work as that document will do no good. It doesn’t prove citizenship and doesn’t meet the federal regs for proof of citizenship before receiving FA.
When they get the FA package ready is up to them. They can’t release any federal money until they have proof she’s a citizen. Did you ultimately get a FSA ID to use with FAFSA? If so, you should be fine. The school may still require to see her passport, not a copy but the actual passport, before releasing because something might be stuck in her file that her citizenship was in question. They may take a copy for their records, but they have to physically see the passport. (or C of C).
Notarizing something doesn’t make it more official, it only means the signature is ‘self authenticating’ and your daughter couldn’t later deny that she signed it. Again, busy work.
@mom2twogirls it seems like we are going to have to prove citizenship at every single school. Some are good with an affidavit and an image of the passport but one school required a notarized form.
The federal regs (for getting federal aid) do not allow the schools to accept anything other than personally viewing the proof of citizenship, either a passport of C of C. An affidavit, notarized or not, doesn’t meet the requirement.
Of course, this is only if they suspect citizenship may be an issue. My daughter was never asked, but her FSA ID/SSN confirmed that she was a citizen.
My daughter (same year as @twoinanddone) was asked for proof of citizenship. We just brought her passport to orientation. Permanent residents (green card holders) are also eligible for federal aid; presumably they show their green cards.
It’s just kind of crappy to have to prove this over and over again. My kids have SSNs and US passports.
When I adopted my daughter I was told there are good/better/best levels of citizenship proof. To be on the safe side, I got all and many said it was overkill. I made an appointment/interview and got her a certificate of citizenship (best), got the state delayed registration of birth/court blessing (better) and a passport (good). It cost money to do each, as I remember, hundreds of dollars and a lot of paperwork. I did that because each part of the government works differently and looks at documents differently. I did that even though in 2001 the laws had changed and she received automatic citizenship, the process still hadn’t caught up and everyone still received green cards upon entering the US. I have never been questioned about anything. I am sorry you have to go through this, but if you don’t want them to ever be questioned, you probably still could get those documents.
This does not prove citizenship. My daughter’s certificate of foreign birth says, right on it ‘Not valid for proof of citizenship’.
If you go to the passport site, it claims it is the BEST proof of citizenship, and I agree. Many people do no know what to make of the C of C and it has a picture of a 2 year old on it. They are used to seeing passports but not C of C. The few times I tried to use daughter’s Certificate of Foreign Birth, the clerks/secretaries/government workers didn’t know what it was so I just started using the passport for everything, even registering for sports leagues.
I got my daughter a Certificate of Citizenship and when I lost it in a move, I replaced it. She’s 23 and I am still here to help but I want her to have all the documentation I can provide for her. I think I owe her that.
It actually says on the USCIS that if your adopted child already has a US passport, they may be denied a CIC. I guess the process should have been obtain a CIC first then the passport. Everything was so confusing when they changed the law right at the time of our adoption, that we quickly applied for the passport. We were also going to Canada a few months later (best lasik!) so we wanted to be certain we could get back over the border. This even became more important as it was just a couple of weeks after 9/11.