<p>I am interested to know if there is a significant difference in admission chances for international students at the more prestigious such as the Ivy Leagues, top 3-4 liberal arts schools, and Stanford/berkeley etc.. </p>
<p>Please post your stats, and admission decision (if you applied early or to a rolling program) or feel free to discuss this issue.</p>
<p>im not considering applying for fin. aid at princeton...applied for 20K-25K at Cornell, Duke, Dartmouth.</p>
<p>1) There is a considerable increase in your chances if you don't apply for aid at most need-aware or need-sensitive schools, which basically means anything other than HPYM and Williams. Especially for Stanford, you are virtually guaranteed admission if you have SAT above 1450 and other stats are good.</p>
<p>2) SP no matter how much I tell you, you still elect to be a fool and not apply for aid at Princeton, which happens to have the best finaid policy.</p>
<p>So, other words, you are saying... for a kid with an average SAT (1300s), not necessarily the best standardized test scores, but otherwise a good candidate he is pretty much guaranteed admission if he does not apply for aid at schools such as JHU, Upenn, Cornell, etc.?</p>
<p>merc exaggerates :p</p>
<p>Whoa there. Don't jump to such conclusions. For those schools that are NOT need blind to internationals, you do have a better chance of getting in if you do not apply for aid. It does not give you an automatic in. There are different things in the admissions process for internationals, such as quotas from single countries that also come into play. Just because you can pay, does not mean you are an auto admit. You still need to get through admissions just like all of the US students, and it has been my observation, that international kids are more highly qualified as a group at the selective schools. The schools tend to take the best of the applicants from each country. If you come from an underrepresented, unusual background that will help.</p>
<p>Also bear in mind when you do not aply for aid, that you need to show ability to pay to get your student visa. So if you need the money, you could get into the school, and not be allowed to come.</p>
<p>What astrix and jamimom said are right :)</p>
<p>I did exaggerate the comment on Stanford (sorry that the sarcasm didn't come thru). There are tons of applicants who apply without any need for aid, so you still must have strong stats to back you.</p>
<p>But one thing's for sure - if you do apply for aid at non-needblind schools, your chances are diminished a LOT at most places. And this is not an exaggeration.</p>
<p>i applied to HYPSMCP with no aid at any school...but a guaranteed admission at Stanford? i doubt it. sorry.</p>
<p>Obviously at such prestigious institutions there is no such thing as a guaranteed admission. However, is anyone aware of any percentages of internationals who are accepted who do not apply for aid? Those kinds of figures will allow us to make a more informed judgement on the issue.</p>
<p>Valb, the percentages are not as meaningful because of breakdowns by country. There are kids rejected from overrepresented countries with stats that would be snatched up had they come from an underrepresented "hot" country. The lone applicant from some unusual country that is accepted would represent a 100% accept rate, which is clearly not representative of international admits. The hordes that apply from Taiwan, China, India to MIT are very carefully examined, even though need is not an issue. I would suggest to internationals to look at some schools off the beaten track along with the usuals, if you really want to come to school in this country.</p>
<p>What about an underqualified applicant from a country like....New Zealand, where opportunities are plentiful but applicants to American universities are scarce. What do think such a situation would result in?</p>
<p>I am no expert in international applications and usually stay out of these "chances" discussions for that reason. I personally do not feel that New Zealand is on any "hot" list, but I cannot tell you where you can check this information. There are so many colleges in the US that I doubt if you are underqualified at a number of them, and those may well be ones that would be very excited about getting an international student. I doubt that HPY and other top schools will bend standards for someone from New Zealand unless there are some truly unusual things associated with the applicant that would catch their eye. Some of these schools that do not have many international kids are not need aware for anyone, but they usually are not so generous with anyone in aid either, but applying for need may not keep you out. You would have to call and ask each such college individually. There are so many colleges in the US, that unless a student is fixated with the top name school, there is a place somewhere for nearly anyone.</p>
<p>jamimom, I am of indian ethnicity, but was born and lived outside india all my life, in 2 different countries. I emphasised on my "internationalism" (proof: can speak 4 languages fluently) and the lack of binding to any one culture, but to a global community in my essays. Would colleges ie. Princeton, consider that, or would they club me with the other hundreds of applicants from india? I am quite a unique case added to this, transferring 3 schools in H.S across 2 countries, skipping 10th grade. Im just curious to know, as indian students (from india), never skip grades in the middle of H.S.</p>
<p>The guy who serves me coffee at Starbucks is a student that fits your description exactly. There are more like you than you think. He was an excellent student, speaks English (his 3rd language) without a trace of an accent. He applied to 40 schools over two years before getting into a local school here which is non competitive in admissions. He managed to get a work permit, and is now working part time. Did not get a dime for the school though he has to be 200 points over the average SAT there. It is not easy for internationals. </p>
<p>I am not saying you should not try for the top schools. Your app just might get you into Princeton or any number of schools. But as I recommend to US applicants, do apply to a large variety of schools with selectivity rates that are not so difficult. That is, if you want to study here. If all you want are the top schools, and have alternative if that does not work out, then that is a different story. Don't bother with the apps for schools you know you aren't going to consider. I can tell you that there are many schools in the US that would love to snap you up with your resume. But Princeton is a school that is going to be a lottery ticket for you, as it is for nearly everyone who applies there.</p>
<p>jamimom...thanks. now my future is set. I'l either be serving coffee at starbucks, or preferably flippin burgers at MCD for a dollar an hour... :( </p>
<p>well on a serious note, I applied to some of the top notch schools in england. I got accepted at the No. 3, 4, 5, and 10 in ranking over there, rejected at the no.6. I have a great GPA (cumulative 4.3/4.4) but bad SATs (1350, SATIIs in the high 600s). + some so called hooks (really different from what most applicants have in terms of ECs). Well...i just hope for the best :) I might take a year off and publish my book, do research, patent my new invention, and travel. And of course apply Pton ED :D Would u suggest this?</p>
<p>HYP practise a need blind admissions policy for international students. (Williams and MIT might as well, though I am not sure.)</p>
<p>For most other schools financial aid applicants end up in a special applicant pool, with admissions percentages that are 1/3rd or 1/4th of the normal acceptance rate for international students.</p>
<p>I also know a number of Indian students who skipped grades. Probably US citizen or green card Indians, as I do not ask for exact status, but my son's close friend has skipped, and a number of kids in that group, all outstanding students have skipped as well, so I don't know where you are getting that info. I will ask the mother of my son's friend if it is true about Indian kids not skipping grades, but given the empirical evidence in front of my eyes, I don't think that is such an unusual thing. There is a difference, however, in the treatment of US candidates from an Indian background, and internationals who are considered Indian. You are associated with the country of your citizenship, and I have seen some crazy things that way, but that is the way it is done. My close friend's husband is as Japanese as they come--name, background, language. But he is a Mexican citizen and went to school in Mexico. Not a drop of Mexican blood in him but he speaks Spanish as well as Japanese. He applies as a Mexican as that is what his citizenship and passport indicate. And, I do believe it was a boost getting him into a selective school. Not many Japanese speaking Mexicans, I am sure. But he had top stats as well--not as though he gave that part of his resume a short shrift.</p>
<p>Whoa there on the Starbucks scene. A lot of kids work at Starbucks and actually it is encouraging that an international student can get a work permit. Starbucks does not pay under the table. There was not intention of putting down that work. My son will be busboy and waiter this summer, and if last summer was any indication, just on a part time basis at this place, he should be bringing home some good money. And he is going to Yale. So I wouldn not look at it that way. The "bad" news which is really not news, but the same situation for anyone applying to super selective schools is really mitagated with the fact that there are opportunities for most international applicants who do not need the money to go to school. And though your background will not necessarily put you in a catergory of your own, it certainly is impressive and will be helpful when your app is being reviewed. And I would not discourage anyone from applying to Princeton or any school. Never know what would catch an adcoms eye and you certainly have some eyecatchers planned. I'll buy a copy of your book when it come out if you post it on the forum. And maybe take you for coffee at Starbucks!</p>
<p>hey SP, youll be paid atleast 5.50 if that makes you feel better :)</p>