<p>Well I actually don't really care about the money haha. But coming from a first generation immigrant family (from China) and being in an environment where everyone works at a University or hospital, visiting Wall STreet was simply one of the most incredible experiences of my life. I really like Economics and Mathematics, just figured Finance may be the perfect match. But I still have 4 years (3?) to figure it out.</p>
<p>Interesting though Denzera, Law sounds very nice (the lack of cut-throat competition). And I like debate and critical thinking so I think I'm "considering" (if I'm fortunate enough to do either) Law or Investment Banking-- maybe both!</p>
<p>If you think lawyers aren't "cut-throat competition", you're kidding yourself. The competition among associates to make partner is crazy. But the fact is, if the senior partners wanted to, they could create new partnerships for every associate who stands out in their minds. PepsiCo probably doesn't have too many Vice President positions, and they're not getting any bigger. My point is that while all companies are roughly a pyramid, some are stretchy at the top while others are very fixed.</p>
<p>Law school doesn't necessarily lead to brutal competition for jobs with Biglaw firms, but it certainly does for many...and that's a competition that extends from law school through beyond becoming partner (as partners squabble over clients, fees, and, therefore, influence).</p>
<p>What's that Google job that your friend landed? The jobs you've describe sound awesome, but is it even harder to into those kinda jobs than into ibanking? I can't believe that they would give you 90.000 as a fresh college grad and only expect you to work 60 hours. Are those mostly hedge fund type of jobs?</p>
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What's that Google job that your friend landed?
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Software Engineer.
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is it even harder to into those kinda jobs than into ibanking?
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probably roughly equivalent, all else being equal. but they require a little more foresight, creativity, and willingness to go off the beaten path. ibanking is certainly the beaten path for ambitious ivy league grads.
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Are those mostly hedge fund type of jobs?
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First of all, 60-hour weeks are "only" working 9am-9pm five days a week. that'll impact your dinner plans, trust me. Secondly, by way of example, the hedge fund / private equity group D.E. Shaw advertises heavily at columbia, including specifically advertising jobs like network engineer, systems administrator, etc as "Get $90,000 a year right out of college". Hedge funds are probably the most typical places to find jobs like this, but again, you have to be the best of the best. But targeting high-end finance-industry IT jobs by doing internships and related work while in college is a good leg up in the process, assuming you don't want to end up like Paul Owen.</p>
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law school doesn't necessarily lead to brutal competition for jobs with Biglaw firms, but it certainly does for many...and that's a competition that extends from law school through beyond becoming partner (as partners squabble over clients, fees, and, therefore, influence).
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</p>
<p>That's just the nature of the beast: it's a reflection of the type of people who go into the profession.</p>
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But the fact is, if the senior partners wanted to, they could create new partnerships for every associate who stands out in their minds. PepsiCo probably doesn't have too many Vice President positions, and they're not getting any bigger. My point is that while all companies are roughly a pyramid, some are stretchy at the top while others are very fixed.
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</p>
<p>Not sure I agree. A service business (law firm, consulting firm, investment bank) isn't getting any bigger unless the business can grow, just as Pepsi isn't getting any bigger unless the business can grow. The pyramid is pretty fixed at most large organizations (major law firm, blue clip company) because it's hard to expand substantially when you're already pretty big. For an associate to "stand out" in the minds of the partners, he'd have to be able to increase the pot and make the business grow. Otherwise, it would be a terrible business decision to create such new partnerships.</p>
<p>well of course, the only test of whether you deserve to become a partner or stay a partner in a client-services firm is whether you can bring in the business. You eat what you kill. But the point is, the same is not true for the VP of IT services at an insurance firm. There's only one of him, and if you want to be him, you have to be his successor and be the favorite of some big-name people.</p>
<p>But to the extent that regular (non-service) businesses grow, there creates more room for advancement for everyone. Sure, if you want to be the IT VP you have little control over whether the business grows. But if the business grows, there's likely to be an expansion of the IT department and new high-level positions created.</p>
<p>the PR stats are a bit general, typically when we talk about ibank jobs around here we meant by BB (bulge bracket: the best firms in the industry) or equivilent where starting is 60k and first year bonus is from 50-100% ofthat.</p>
<p>Hah, I don't know where you get your information from lynda.</p>
<p>I'd love to know how a first year analyst coming straight out of undergraduate can get a performance bonus of 50-100%. Analysts are a dime a dozen; no way a BB is going to fork over more than 25% for a first year bonus when they have thousands of other equally-worthy applicants to consider.</p>
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I'd love to know how a first year analyst coming straight out of undergraduate can get a performance bonus of 50-100%. Analysts are a dime a dozen; no way a BB is going to fork over more than 25% for a first year bonus when they have thousands of other equally-worthy applicants to consider.
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hi. i have a lot of friends on wall street. many of them got bonuses in that range, as analysts, when the markets did real well last year. I can introduce you to my good friend Lily, who worked in IBD at Morgan, and got bought out of her $40k bonus when she got laterally-hired to work at Goldman. She was dumbfounded and actually emailed me for suggestions on what to do with the money.</p>
<p>This stuff happens. You can deny it, but that's precisely WHY they have thousands of equally-worthy applicants to consider. It's the money, big guy.</p>
<p>I'm sort of curious as to what IB exactly entails. I'm very interested in CS(specifically machine learning). Is IB generating machine learning models for financial data? What do most first year people spend their time doing? Collecting data? Making models? Making comptuer programs to make the models?</p>
<p>I-bankers help companies buy each other, and set up debt transactions. basically facilitating debt and equity transactions. the short answer is, you're preparing presentations for executives on why and how they should acquire, divest, float bonds, etc. you provide the relationships between the people needing money and the people having money.</p>
<p>Denzera - Hi. I'm glad you have friends. If it was a lateral move to GS, I'm assuming she's a second year analyst, not a first year as I was discussing. And I have a few buds on the street as well. Yeah, I guess we could play that game where we name a friend of a friend's physician's brother's carpenter's step son who got a big time bonus. I mean, that's great. Really, it is. But the reality is you're giving these kids false hope when you say that BBs offer 60k base plus 50-100% performance bonus. Could it happen? Sure, if you're a Vayner or something. More likely than not, you're going to be looking at 60k with a 10k sign on on top. Now, if you're talking about HF, then yeah it's no surprise to see guys raking in 85k plus 100% bonus. But a first year analyst? Nope.</p>
<p>Plus, if you keep up with WSJ at all, you'll know that firms like MS, ML, and Citi are in a tremendous amount of trouble in light of the subprime mortgage fiasco. I know this guy named openingdoors who is getting paid $99999999 a week. But, of course, that's coming from a friend of a friend's physician's brother's carpenter's step son.</p>