Until you experience the actual differences between highly selective / expensive private and state U, it’s really hard to weigh in.From our vantage point, it is absolutely comparing apples and oranges. Sure a kid can do quite well or “just fine” at both but the experience (which includes academic immersion, intellectual opportunities, quality of top employer recruiting, fierce support from alumni, familial campus community, etc.) are polar opposites. Then there’s the kid. Is s/he a top student and motivated to benefit from all the private school has to offer or are they just your run of the mill kid who does OK?
For those who don’t get aid and can’t afford it, it’s a mute point. For those that do or can, it comes down to what you personally feel is valuable. You’ll never know if you’re right. There is no right and the path you choose is the path.
But for clarity purposes, at least understand there really is a big difference between the animals.
I was troubled by a wording above. There is no such thing as a “run of the mill kid.” Consider this quote: “If we design our instruction for the ‘average’ learner, we’re designing for no one.” (Todd Rose)
Every student matters, and every student has a unique profile and certain colleges that will be better “fits” or better choices, for a variety of reasons.
Yes, for some students, that will be an elite college. But one can be a strong proponent of the value of a college experience at a top private college, while still recognizing that many students will prefer and thrive at state universities. State universities are not, as the ‘run of the mill’ comment seems to imply, just for the people who “can’t” go elsewhere. They are a bona fide choice for many, including many high-performing students.
@1NJParent, completely agree that the tuition increases seen over the past five years are not sustainable. At average increases of 4% a year, $70,000 a year will be $75,000 soon and before too long $100,000 a year. Except the extremely wealthy, who in their right mind think close to half a million dollars for a four year undergrad degree could possibly be worthwhile in terms of a return on investment? Except for possibly some very specific fields of study, this is not going to work but for a very small percent of the population.
I am not referring to just ivies or top 20 schools. Many average to slightly above average midsize private universities are already asking over $60,000 a year. Agree with @PurpleTitan and @MassDaD68 and @milee30 that it is generally not a good investment to pay inflated costs for a bachelor’s degree. Like @Much2learn mentions, whether the $70,000 is “worth it” may also depend on whether graduate school costs may be needed in the future. Yet if one has the funds and has the means, I can not argue with @AltaSki64 and the premise that if you save and can afford to send your student where it may feel like the best fit, size of school, rigor, major or whatever reasons, so be it. Maybe there is no “right” answer that applies to everyone, although for many middle and upper middle class families, it will not be justified to pay $70,000 per year.
Also, we have seen an unusual bull market run in the stock market since say a few years after the 2008 crash. Many upper middle class families who might be able to consider $70,000 a year tuition because of vast growth in 529 college accounts may find when there is a correction (and there WILL be), that their other kids are going to find a big reduction in their accounts while $70,000 a year tuition may be $80,000 a year for the younger sibling(s). Universities may have to start adjusting their tuition downward unless they are happy matriculating only one group of extremely wealthy students for their student body.
Well, I’d say paying 70k a year isn’t worth it but going to one of those 70k schools can be… if that makes sense. If you have the money, if you qualify for enough merit and scholarship, there can be some definite perks over the local state school (depending one what school you live next to I guess.)
My kids are outliers here. Neither was a competitive applicant for a top 20 college of any kind.
That being said…we DID pay for them to attend private universities…which now ARE in that $70,000 a year price point…and except for some merit aid (one kid got $10,000 a year which in 2003 was a large award, and the other got $6000 a year which was not a large award) we paid the balance.
University of CT is our state flagship and it probably would have been fine for one of the kids, it not for the other.
We chose to pay for the more costly private universities for both.
Before matriculating, our kids didn’t even know about or look at rankings, and neither did we. As it happens, both of their colleges are well regarded, but not in the elite group by any measure or means (Boston University and Santa Clara University…in case anyone wonders).
We were fortunate to be able to pay the costs for them to attend. If that had not been the case, we would have done very different college searches.
I should add…neither of our kids chose the acceptance with the lowest net cost. But both chose great schools, in our opinion.
Plus…we would not have allowed applications to any place we couldn’t afford…but that was not an issue we had to grapple with.
My nephew is at NYU for film school. His parents are hardly rich, but he’s their only child and they have worked hard to save for his college education. Normally I would say $70,000/year isn’t worth it, but for something like film school where the connections you make a vital to your future success, I say if you have it, spend it. But taking out those kids of loan for undergrad anywhere for any type of degree would be foolish.
I personally do not think any college is worth $70k/year. That’s an obscene amount of money and I don’t see the experience at any college being worth that much, and I say that after attending 2 top 10 schools and getting a wonderful education. But my experiences have put things in perspective. I have no doubt my D will end up in exactly the same place regardless of the college she attends. She’s having a great experience and getting a great education where she is. So why pay more for it?
If you are upper middle class, i.e., you don’t qualify for financial aid, and your child does not get merit money, I don’t think colleges (maybe with just a few exceptions) are worth $70,000. I don’t even think they are worth $60K or $65K for the great majority of students. If you are full pay, even if you can “afford” these expensive private universities by paying for them without taking out loans or by using 529 savings, the money did come from somewhere- you, the parents.
The COA of most public universities in-state is roughly about 25 to 30,000 per year and out-of-state 40 to 45K per year or 100K to 180K for four years. So, if you are upper middle class, and by definition with finite financial resources, it means that giving these overpriced universities $280,000 of your hard-earned money is $280,000 minus about $100K to 180K, or somewhere between $100,000 to $200,000 less you have on hand after they graduate college to help your children pay for graduate school or help them buy a home or whatever. It’s actually more when you consider growth of this money for the four years you get to keep it invested while your child is in college. That money would be mighty handy for most UMC families.
For the great majority of UMC full-pay families I think it is difficult, IMHO, to justify spending an extra $100K to 200K+ in savings that could have served their children (or their parents) well after college. And justifying the added expense of private college is made even more difficult because it can’t be assumed at all that private college is a better education or leads to a better or higher paying job after graduation.
NPK- here’s a deal- I won’t tell you how to spend your money and you won’t tell me how to spend mine.
I’ve never been to Disney (nor have my kids), didn’t buy them cars for HS graduation, live in my starter house, my kids never did pricey EC’s or camps- and yet I have a very good life. I begrudge my friends and colleagues who spend on all sorts of consumer product nothing- they should enjoy their high end vehicles like I enjoy my Honda.
But pay for a full price college education and EVERYONE has an opinion about who’s the sucker, what’s wrong with east overshoe state, do I know how many condos or fancy weddings I could buy my kids if only I hadn’t spent it all on college, etc.
I justified the spending to myself and my spouse- the only two people involved in the decisions we made that got us where we were financially and professionally. I don’t need to justify it to anyone else, including my friends who live high on the hog but then can’t figure out how to come up with tuition for the local, non-flagship state college. I never assumed that my kids would get a higher paying job after graduation (although they are all financially independent and out-earning me at this point- quite early in their careers but that was their choice, not a parental dictate on what to study or what to pursue professionally).
If you can’t justify it than don’t. I don’t need to justify it- I spent the money, and nothing I have ever saved for has given me more satisfaction.
@blossom No need to be defensive. Some will value an elite education beyond all else and that’s their right. Those same people think those who don’t skimp and save to be able to afford it are fools, and they can believe that if they choose. Others will think its not worth it and that those who spend the money are fools and that’s their right too. So long as each person is happy with their personal decision, it’s all good. CC would be a ghost town if people didn’t have different opinions.
I am not at all defensive. My money, my choice. But the tone that some posters take- which implies that full payers are morons who can’t run a NPV calculation is getting very old.
I fully respect that other families make other choices.
I’ve got a friend who is about to send her fourth (and final) kid to college and they-- quite literally- cannot understand how they are supposed to afford their EFC.
They own two vacation properties, they travel constantly (cruise AFTER the holidays to “recover” from the family vacation), and they believe themselves to be middle class. One would think that by the fourth kid they’d have figured out that cutting back on the “extras” might yield some extra cash- but no. And the resentment towards people who “somehow” can pay full freight (or qualify for need based aid) is very, very tiresome.
It ain’t rocket science. I don’t think my friends are fools for not scrimping and saving. But I do think they are fools that on their fourth go-round, with college costs escalating since number 1, they didn’t stop to connect the dots on their lifestyle and the need for a college fund for their kid. They wonder “how poor do we need to be to qualify for financial aid” and you just can’t contain the laughter. For one- sell the ski condo. That’s two years of full freight college right there.
@blossom Easy there! I didn’t mean to touch a nerve. Take a breath.
“But pay for a full price college education and EVERYONE has an opinion about who’s the sucker…” In case you didn’t notice this entire forum is all about each person’s opinion. We’ve all got one and that’s what each of us is posting here, you included. Not that I needed to but I even wrote “IMHO.” It’s implicit that it’s my opinion. So relax and don’t be so defensive. I didn’t ask you or anyone else to justify anything to me. I didn’t forbid you personally or anyone else reading this thread from paying full price for a private college and I didn’t say it was against the law. I was merely giving my calculus on the matter, being UMC and looking at it this way. Someone may find my opinion useful. Others may not and can immediately discard it from their mind. That’s fine. And that is the idea of this forum.
Our collective opinions are what makes this forum useful to so many people.
Here’s a deal- I won’t tell you what opinion you can give on this forum and you won’t tell me what opinion I can give.
And the $100,000 to $200,000 extra for private college (again, UMC earner so no FA, and assuming no merit aid given) that I indicated in my previous post is in after-tax dollars. You, or your graduate in his/her new job, would need to earn something like 180,000 to $400,000 in gross income ( depending on what state you live in, your earnings, and your gross marginal tax rate) to end up with the same after-tax money necessary to cover the difference between private and public college cost.
Again- I don’t need to breathe. But do you see how condescending it is to be lectured on basic finance, by another UMC person, who assumes that I am too dumb to know the difference between my gross and my net?