<p>The debt issue I cannot speak to, but this particular school has a fantastic track record of its students landing choice APA accredited internships.</p>
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<p>As a former neural & cog sci major, I assure you that physics is useful and relevant in both neuroscience and psychology.</p>
<p>It has a GOOD but not FANTASTIC record of students getting APA-accredited internships (~50%). Many funded programs (a few unfunded ones) have match rates of 90-100%. Of course, those programs are almost impossible to get into, so…</p>
<p>Please explain to this novice the term “funded” (vs. unfunded). What is funded? Funded by whom?</p>
<p>Unfunded means the student is paying for the tuition and living expenses themselves.<br>
Funded means you are receiving tuition remission and/or RA/TA wages to pay living expenses</p>
<p>Thanks. I went to law school which I know is different from other grad school experiences.</p>
<p>In a few grad school forums, my son told me he read the APA accredited internships weren’t really necessary, but nice. Many students get internships at other institutions and go onto great careers. That said, this was on the APA site:
Will I have trouble getting a job or becoming licensed if I don’t go to an accredited program?</p>
<p>This depends on your own career objectives and the law in the state(s) in which you wish to practice. If you wish to pursue licensure, it is important to know that some states require that students have a degree from an APA-accredited program. You should check with the licensing body in the state(s) in which you intend to practice (visit the ASPPB website at <a href=“http://www.asppb.org%5B/url%5D”>www.asppb.org</a>).</p>
<p>In addition, some agencies of the federal government only hire graduates of APA-accredited programs. If you wish to work for such an agency, please contact them directly for further information on hiring requirements.</p>
<p>Some schools offer a BS/BA? in Ed. Psych. Would this degree be a leg up for Grad school as opposed to a BA/BS in Psych?
For those of you considering a career as a School Psych., be aware that in many situations, there is not much going on beyond testing and report writing. Many school districts are short staffed in this area and the case load an be over-whelming.</p>
<p>APA accredited programs and APA accredited internships are not the same thing. Internship can be thought of as vaguely equivalent to a one year residency–it’s a national matching process, and the competition is getting incredibly fierce, with 25% of applicants a year not matching (and that’s including non APA-accredited APPIC member internship sites); many, but not all, of those are from professional school (though SOME professional schools do have good match rates, many have really, really low match rates). While it’s true that APA accredited internships are not required for licensure in most states (there are a handful that require them–Georgia and Florida are two that I know of off the top of my head), they can open up doors that would be closed by a non-accredited internship (working for the VA, for example). Internship and dissertation are the final steps towards a PhD/PsyD in Clinical, Counseling, or School Psych, and at non-VA sites, internship can be brutal (a former friend recently completed an internship at an APA-accredited university counseling center where she frequently worked 10 hour days and 70 hour weeks for $20,000 over the year, which is pretty standard at non-VA and non-military internships).</p>
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<p>The nice thing about a PhD/PsyD in School Psych is that you can also get licensed to work outside of school system in most states (WY is a exception; I think there may be a few others)… Ideally, I’d like a split in-school and out-of-school practice and would love the possibility to do research on the side, though I know I don’t want to research exclusively as a professional. School Psych programs tend to house most of professors who would be research matches for me, so that tends to be a big factor in my applying. Additionally, I need a stable job with insurance and doing full time private practice isn’t an option for me, so school psych seems like a good fit for me. I’m also planning on applying to couple of Clinical/Counseling research matches, but given my interests and career goals, school psych is an excellent fit. Now, I just need to get admitted… ;)</p>
<p>Truthfully, though, I would say that if you don’t really enjoy doing research and could live without doing assessment, getting a MA/MS in Counseling or an MSW would probably be better. I just really, really like research and want to do assessment (plus, the advanced clinical training is a positive, of course!) so I’m aiming for a PhD/PsyD.</p>
<p>Mississippi and Oklahoma are the only states that require an APA internship. But otherwise, the advice about the high debt load for professional schools in psychology is a good caution. A degree in social work is the most versatile/affordable route to a range of clinical practice opportunities. Ph.D. programs offer the most opportunities for funded graduate training. Undergraduate research experience and good mentoring are critical to successful grad school applications and the admission to graduate programs is absurdly competitive at present. There is an Insider’s Guide to Graduate Training in Psychology that is useful; then look very carefully at costs of graduate student loans relative to income expectations for psychologists.</p>
<p>Unfortunately PsyD programs would be the best fit for me, but I have to investigate more funding options. Unless I find (and get in) one of the few that fund, I can’t afford to pay out of pocket, which includes huge loans. I understand though without being an RA and working longer hours, there isn’t an incentive to do so.
I like the “Insiders Guide” and the APA grad study book. If you read the latter, over and over you will see, under internships, 0 placed in APA accredited or half the class. It is very competitive.
There are MA scholarships out there if you look and the cost is less overall. I think an MA is fine, the pay is not much less that PhD in a school setting (I read about 2,000)and sometimes a school would rather have the MA because of money. If you might want to do more administrative work later or work in a hospital or teach, the PhD is more flexible. The NASP site has a lot of info on school psych and potential outcome.</p>
<p>OP,
There is a masters program in counseling, called Master of Science in Counseling, Specialization in College Counseling and Student Services. This degree prepares one to work with students in colleges, sometimes as counselor, sometimes with Admissions, and can lead to becoming a Dean (more courses needed for that).</p>
<p>I recommended such a program for a client who wanted job security, but didn’t want to just do testing in a school setting. She also liked the idea of working with this age population. In terms of funding, she began with a job at the U, and then was able to take courses for free.</p>
<p>Missy Pie.</p>
<p>All this new for me. My son is considering changing his major from IR to Psych or Education. One school he’s considering has a a BS in Ed. Psych but I know he would have to go on for some graduate work— on get a teaching certificate
What could you do with a MS/MA in Ed. Psych?
Thanks</p>
<p>My son has mild Asperger’s Syndrome, so testing/assessment seems like a better fit for him than counseling.</p>
<p>I have no knowledge in this field, but my D’s friends father (MD), strongly suggested his D to switch from Psych. major to teaching because of concern for not being able to find a job. She did. As I mentioned, I not a credible source in regard to this. My D. is very interested in Psych. Her school does not have a Psych. minor, so she is minoring in Neuroscience and she loves all her classes. She has no plans of using it, just an interest that she is pursuing. She is pre-med and has been taking tons of science classes.</p>
<p>I know I heard the “Get out of Psych” myself or “go all the way and be an MD” a lot but no one was willing to pay for the latter!
I know I love Psych, I’m great in math, but don’t want a career in it. My cousin did that, loved History/English/Writing, but went into Finance for the money. She hates it now, but is going to stick it out until she can do something she does love. 60+ hours a week doing work you just tolerate, isn’t much to look forward too.
Just a pscyh degree can get you into the door of entry level jobs, but you do have to have some type of advanced degree to do many things. I know a insurance agent who had a BA Pscyh degree, a store manager, things like that.
I wouldn’t like being a professor, but I know I want to work with children and in a school or clinic setting.
I don’t have Aspergers but I do have some of the “spectrum” traits that make asseessment and that field interesting. Keeping money in mind, you should try to do what you think you will be content with.</p>
<p>Returning to the APA approved issue, I would recommend, if at all possible, that one try to attend an APA approved program and internship. Yes, the competition is very steep, but it opens many doors. As others have said above, the competition for internships has goten very steep, and the number of applicants significantly exceeds the number of slots at APA approved programs, due to funding cuts at training sites, etc. Many qualified grad students have not been able to secure desired internships, and instead of being matched, they either go through the clearinghouse option (usually mostly non APA sites that have spots available) or wait another year and reapply. Then, after completion of their training, not only do some states require APA approved (or APA equivalent) internships for licensure (the student will have to submit additional documentation from the training site to the licensing board for approval), but some insurance companies, for providers that want to be on insurance or managed care panels, will have thir own requirements, which may also include APA approved (or equivalent) training. </p>
<p>Additionally, I am hearing from some colleagues that some grad school training programs are wanting students to have a few years of experience (perhaps workign as a mental health assistant at a local psych hospital), and are taking less straight from undergrad (sounds a bit like the business school model).</p>
<p>Until this year, I used to encourage students (half kidding, half serious) to pursue careers where a third party (ie insurance carriers) didnt control their income. But now, in today’s economic climate, I am singing a different tune. While the patient load, or waiting list for an evaluation may be shorter than it was, I am still plenty busy. Patients come in, and insurance pays their portion. Sadly, many are not following up on their doctor’s referrals simply because they cannot afford the copay. But I am employed, income is relatively stable, and I am not wondering if I will face a layoff (well, I am self employed, and I cant fire myself and collect unemployment 
)</p>
<p>Greetings!</p>
<p>I want to go back to OP’s original question: Is a BA is Psychology a useless or inferior degree? As I noted previously (and others confirmed), many colleges don’t even offer the BS; and I’m not convinced it makes much difference at all. What
matters is the types of experiences the student puts together for themselves.</p>
<p>A bachelor’s degree in psychology is no better or worse than a bachelor’s degree in just about any other liberal arts field you can name: english? history? art? modern languages? sociology? comm studies? philosophy? political science? In short, none of these majors will make anyone rich or even guarantee them a job in the short term. But none (thankfully) means a life of poverty either! Indeed, some folks in the corporate world prefer to hire people with a strong liberal arts background over someone who has majored in Business Admin; and the psychology student typically brings strong analytic skills based on taking Stat, Research Methods, lab courses, etc.</p>
<p>Students who say they want to go to “graduate school in psychology”, still have a lot of work to do. First, they have to think about their area of specialization. This includes far more possibilities than just clinical or school psychology. On the academic end, people can specialize in social, developmental, I/O (industrial/organizational), cognitive, neuroscience, aging, psychopathology, ed psych, psychology & law, psycholinguistics, etc. Most of these areas require the PhD (though I/O psychology can be practiced quite lucratively at the terminal masters level). </p>
<p>For those who are interested in clinical/counseling, there are many options as well. Decisions need to be made about area of specialization (clinical, counseling, school psych, social work, marriage & family counseling, etc), as well as level (MA, MS, MEd, PhD, PsyD, etc). Obviously, different specializations and/or different credentials mean different things in terms of what kind of work you can do and how much you get paid to do it.</p>
<p>For people who want to explore career opportunities in psychology, check out the web page of the American Psychological Association. There are lots of resources for students. That’s <a href=“http://www.apa.org%5B/url%5D”>www.apa.org</a>.</p>
<p>To psych_ , brj-ct, and others: Sounds like you’ve been doing your homework! Good luck!</p>
<p>Cadbury, thanks for the comprehensive summary of psych degree career options.
My D graduated last year with a BA in psych, minor in applied psych/education. She is now in a school psych master’s program-- two years for the degree, another year paid internship for the credential. In CA, even with the budget cuts, school districts are required to provide psych services, so job security is pretty good. They also do quite a bit of testing as well as counseling. With a bit more training, she can obtain a certificate and work in private practice as well. I’m a teacher and my husband is a PhD psych, so it is interesting to see the two blended together in her chosen field.
OP, if your son’s interest is in school psych, he should look for NASP-approved programs (Nat’l Assoc of School Pyschs), so that the degree will be transferable to any region of the country he chooses to settle in.</p>