<p>Once again, Impact's views are spot-on.</p>
<p>Impact you took the words outta my mouth. Great job.</p>
<p>"The average physician's salary is about $155,000 now"</p>
<p>That's more than CEOs of companies, on average.</p>
<p>^ According to what source? I looked up CEO salaries at <a href="http://www.salary.com%5B/url%5D">www.salary.com</a>, and according to that site, the national average is $617,461 base and $949,333 including bonuses.</p>
<p>That may be true. But CEO's get bonuses. CEO's don't have to study for 8 years, emerge from school roughly $100,000 (on average) in debt, and then toil through residency. CEO's don't pay for malpractice insurance from their after-tax salaries.</p>
<p>All in all, you won't starve as a physician. I'm sure the money that doctors make should give them a fairly comfortable (and in many cases, even a luxurious) lifestyle. But like everyone else said earlier, if you are in it for the big money, you will be sorely disappointed. (And besides, money is no comfort when you're on call at 3 in the morning)</p>
<p>pros:</p>
<p>1) if having the highest income in the world really matters, then take your chances with becoming a corporate paper-pusher. a career as a doctor is still fruitful.
2) 250k is an exaggeration. especially if you're talking per year. depending upon your field of medicine, your malpractice insurance rates will vary. the highest i've heard of is around 70k or so. and even that is unheard of to many.
3) depends. you yourself (impact) agreed that doctors can move their hours around. it also depends on what field you are in. also, doctors have an advantage over many other careers in that a doctor can usually make room for vacations at pretty much any time he/she wants.
4) true. you really dont have to worry about losing your job. unless, of course, you mess up somewhere. but that works for any job, i would assume.
5) yep (see above)
6) im not sure what this was originally referring to. yes, you do see your patients. thats part of the job. but its really not like you have a boss.
7) true, but i personally dont see anything wrong with that. presentations and projects can take you on many paid vacations.
8) this depends on what you do. if you simply run a practice that sees outpatients, then you're pretty much stress-free. as a surgeon, you will face pressure. everything inbetween, it just depends. it's your choice.</p>
<p>cons:
1) dont worry about the debt. it will be paid off in time. but if you really dont want to face it, then go for scholarships. plus there are plenty of forms of financial aid out there. you would be surprised at how many people really are eligible for financial aid, regardless of their backgrounds.</p>
<hr>
<p>it really just depends on where your interests are. do what you will be interested in. its your career, your life.</p>
<p>Hey, poster above. Thanks for a SANE perspective.....at first I thought you were arguing with my post, but it sounds like a rebuttal to others...
For the guy thats $250k in debt (impactangel)...how did you manage that? The total cost for medschool for 1 year is about 40k (including room+board+food), and that's assuming you don't work even 10 minutes a week. The only way to rack up that much debt is to</p>
<p>1) have zero scholarship, plus
2) not work at ALL, plus
3) Go to med school for 4 years, plus
4) Buy a BMW 540 with full cash!!!</p>
<p>We all know that the last 3 years in residency pays at the poverty line, so you don't make any money but you don't lose either.</p>
<p>And, if you're feeling so bad about the debt, why did you do medicine to begin with? It seems hypocritical to complain about a debt but go for a MD anyways. </p>
<p>Also, if you're paying 250k in malpractice insurance, how much are you making!! You must be rolling in dough if you can afford to pay 250k every year, and yet not bail out of your specialty and go into family practice (where you still net 140k after medmal)!!!!</p>
<p>My school (TJU) cost me roughly $60000 a year. 4 years of that and you get $240000.</p>
<p>My case is a bit extreme as the average medical student emerges with only $100000 of debt. But still, it just goes to illustrate that a medical education is long and expensive.</p>
<p>If you are doing it because it seems cool or because you expect a quick payday, it's gonna be a disappointing ride.</p>
<p>As for my own medical malpractice, $250000 isn't what I pay. I was just using that as an example (someone previously quoted that some surgeons may pay that much). However, I still wouldn't characterize medmal rates as low and insignificant. I only see them rising from this point forward!! (and it is certainly something prospective doctors should keep in mind or pay attention to in the news)</p>
<p>"But still, it just goes to illustrate that a medical education is long and expensive"</p>
<p>It's exactly as expensive as a grad (phd) program without scholarhships, so it's nothing unique to just doctors. Anybody doing grad school without a stipend/scholarship will also be 150k in debt.</p>
<p>Another BIG plus for becoming a doctor....</p>
<ul>
<li>There is no....repeat NO...age discrimination! An older doctor is perceived as a better doctor.</li>
</ul>
<p>In most other professions (engineering, Investment banking), you're a dinosaur if you're over 35. You better become a manager (note, you won't be engineering or IBing anymore, you'll be doing paper pushing and pork-barreling/politics) or else you're gonna feel odd competing against 25 year olds.</p>
<p>Do a google search on "age discrimination" for doctors, and you won't find 2 decent links in the entire 500k+ hits. Do the same thing for engineers, and every single link for 100 pages is filled with engineers complaining about age discrimination.</p>
<p>I believe that it would be rather silly to choose a job based upon its salary.</p>
<p>I'm considering a medical field because I truly like anatomy and physiology. Before, I was an aspiring engineer, but I really have to rethink that one after taking AP Calc BC this year...</p>
<p>However, I still feel that engineers may have the best package: 4-5 yrs of school with good scholarships for women, good salary, and good job opportunities.</p>
<p>golubb - You said about something about people working in med school. Do you know people who are in med school and suceeding while having a job. Personally I don't know any med student who works, or worked when they were a med student, you don't exactly have a lot of time to work and study. </p>
<p>"We all know that the last 3 years in residency pays at the poverty line, so you don't make any money but you don't lose either. "</p>
<p>Could you please explain this because this has me confused. Because the last 3 years of residency for something like Gen Surg pays more then the first two year, and it pays above the povery line. Some residencies are only 3 years, so its not exactly the last 3 years, unless you consider residency part of medical school which is something new to me.</p>
<p>"Could you please explain this because this has me confused"</p>
<p>I was talking about the 3 years of a residency in Internal Medicine or Psychiatry....you do get paid, so you won't be taking any debts out on this amount of time.</p>
<p>"However, I still feel that engineers may have the best package: 4-5 yrs of school with good scholarships for women, good salary, and good job opportunities"</p>
<p>Hmmm, you're only looking at the positive sides, which aren't that positive. To decompose it even further...</p>
<p>1)Since you're a female in engineering, you may find it quite stressful. You may be shown less respect by your peers. Your promotions will be much slower than male counterparts.</p>
<p>2)There is a feeling of isolation anytime there's a 1:10 ratio against you. You may find yourself making friends with the secretaries and other workers while on the job...clicking with the male groups may be much more difficult than you expect.....you better have top notch social skills PLUS top notch engineering skills.</p>
<p>3) You may feel on the verge of losing your jobs at many times...lack of projects, supervision, invites to discussions/meetings.....if you're not doing something all the time, you may be let go..</p>
<p>4) You may be job hopping every 3-5 years....each time it will get harder and harder to get a job. There's no job in engineering that's stable....except if you work for the government. You WILL job hop.</p>
<p>5) You may not be interested in Salary, but guess what....why do people work to begin with?? That's right, to make money. Nobody likes to have a job except if you're into charities or something. But in general, you better care about your salary!!!! After you're older, and your peers in other fields are making much more than you are, you may start caring a whole lot.</p>
<p>6) If you think engineering is a good package....guess what, so do a milliion other people, including people in India and China. And it's a MUCH better package for them than for you, and they can get into the game in NOO time. So, imagine coming into office from 9-5 while your counterparts come in from 8pm-7pm.....pretty soon you'll be working 8pm-7pm a day as well, for no additional income. That's 55 hours a week, plus 5 hours for lunch, so you're putting in 60 hours for low pay.</p>
<p>well if you need more help deciding, you could consider volunteering or internships in the medical field or in engineering. you may want to see if you can interview people with those careers. once you understand both careers from a first-person point of view, it may be easier to choose. sure, money is a great thing, but make sure your career choice is something you wont regret.</p>
<p>golubb_u: what are you exactly in? (undergrad, med, or practicing or something else)</p>
<p>it's disgusting how everyone wants to be a doctor these days for money. that's it. how many of those nerdy science guys actually want to help people? anyway, perhaps some of you "pre-med" types might consider alternative medicine such as acupuncture or chiropractic medicine. you will still have to go thru a fair amount of schooling, but it is not as cutthroat as MD. and you can make almost as much money, if not just as much, as MD.</p>
<p>No way is chiropractic ever going to pay as much as MD.....stick to MD, and the AMA will give you a job for life ;-) You'll have time for your spouse, vacation, money for the million dollar house and BMW and pension when you retire. Doctors have it made.....</p>
<p>"it's disgusting how everyone wants to be a doctor these days for money."</p>
<p>Yup.....90% of them are in it for the money and they're having a great time making all the dough. BUT, they also help people along the way since it's part of their job. Even seen those ads for Laser eye surgery?...ever think why they advertise?...to get business perhaps?</p>
<p>Ninety percent of the MDs I know are certainly not "in it for the money". That's so bizarre that I cannot say any more just now except shame on you for thinking such a thing!</p>
<p>"stick to MD, and the AMA will give you a job for life ;-) You'll have time for your spouse, vacation, money for the million dollar house and BMW and pension when you retire. Doctors have it made..... "</p>
<p>If only that was true, but it isn't. Nowadays not every doc is a multimillionaire. Some aren't even millionaires. Most docs stay on in medicine even after they retire whether it be consulting or inspecting hospitals (Joint Commission, etc). They keep learning medicine even after they retire also, it really is a lifelong commitment. I'm sure some stop completely, but if they have spent that much of their life in it, they probably can't just leave it one day. Now for impact to chime in. He will also tell you something similar.</p>
<p>hahaha...i gotta agree with all of the above from psedrish and bigndude</p>
<p>It will take the average doctor (I'm using the number you gave us: $155000/year) around 13 years to accumulate 1 million dollars in post-tax money.</p>
<p>And that's assuming this doctor doesn't repay tuition debt (on average $100000), doesn't pay for medical malpractice insurance (increasing every year), and doesn't pay for those other things in life (housing, food, cars, spouse, children, vacations, retirement accounts, etc... etc...)</p>
<p>As such, I think it's really unfair (and untrue) to state that doctors are in their chosen profession for the money.</p>
<p>So again, is it good money? Sure!
Will it provide for a comfortable style of life? Absolutely!
Is it popstar/athlete/multi multi millionaire money? Certainly not.</p>
<p>To dispel a few other myths:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>never get laid off: A radiologist I know went to report to his for profit hospital job and found it locked up for good. I've seen some other abandoned "insurance clinics' in my area. Fortunately, the job market is good enough and I'm sure the docs found new jobs quickly.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't report to anyone: There seems to be a trend towards group practices, HMOs, etc. MDs can report to MBAs, medical directors, etc.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>As impact said, you will most likely be comfortable-not necessarily rich. With the malpractice/insurance issues, it is not the same profession it once was. Many of the MDs I know are advising their children to pursue other careers.</p>