Is a career in medicine really worth it?

Pre-Med & Medical School Careers in Medicine
441

<p>That is very true. Engineering has been a good field. However, you would need an advanced degree. When you compare a engineering Ph. D. vs. a medical doctor. The Ph. D. students also need to spend 5 years after undergraduate school. Some of them may not be able to pass the candidacy examine. The difference is that he/she is likely to be on a full scholarship; but, the job security may not be as high as you expected. Medical doctors probably still get higher pay.</p>

<p>Students should measure their own ability and wisely select the pre-med and medical schools. Try not to accumulate much debt for your own sake. Do not count on your parents to pay $300K college expense for you since parents may need the fund for nursing home care which may cost $250K/yr each some 20 years from now. I doubt many doctors, 20 years from now, would be willing or be able to return the favors to their parents.</p>

442

<p>it’s true that docs might not make as much… but whose expense is this at right now. I think this perspective is helpful in this context:</p>

<p>Heartbreak Health Care
[HopeandHealing.org</a> - Heartbreak Health Care](<a href=“Homepage - Hope and Healing International”>Homepage - Hope and Healing International)</p>

<p>And this is basically a classic, but worth re-reading:</p>

<p>[McAllen</a>, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker](<a href=“http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande]McAllen”>The Cost Conundrum | The New Yorker)</p>

<p>We need a fair system – not one that resembles 19th-century Europe (which caused the mass migration to the US). Specialist salaries might go down, but the primary care doctors could actually see an increase since there will be more paying customers. But we don’t know… maybe nothing will happen.</p>

443

<p>[FOXNews.com</a> - Why Doctors Are Abandoning Medicare](<a href=“http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/01/14/c-l-gray-medicare-doctors-deserting-obama/]FOXNews.com”>Why Doctors Are Abandoning Medicare | Fox News)</p>

<p>These auditing groups are allowed to keep their percentage of “found” money even when it is ruled that their findings were in error. Pretty good incentive for finding “fraud”.</p>

444

<p>Longhorns,</p>

<p>You are asking the same key questions I had asked my oldest son in HS. I tend to believe that the more talented you are, the more likely you may be dissatisfied with the long training process medical school students have to go through. There are some related statistics about the medical training/career. You should do some search yourself. </p>

<p>1) And 60 percent of 12,000 general practice physicians found they would not recommend medicine as a career - [Many</a> doctors plan to quit or cut back: survey | Reuters](<a href=“http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4AH1CE20081118]Many”>http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4AH1CE20081118)</p>

<p>2) Residents may work 80 hours per week with 36-hour shifts</p>

<p>[Medical</a> resident work hours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_resident_work_hours]Medical”>Medical resident work hours - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>3) Length of Residency – (4-6 years for specialty)
[Length</a> of Residencies](<a href=“http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/WV/3EDD4E91945F8A2B86256F850071AE49?OpenDocument]Length”>http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/WV/3EDD4E91945F8A2B86256F850071AE49?OpenDocument)</p>

<p>4) Reasons to drop out of Medical School - [Three</a> Reasons to Drop Out of Medical School | Medical School](<a href=“http://www.medicalschool.org/three-reasons.html]Three”>http://www.medicalschool.org/three-reasons.html) </p>

<p>5) Primary care disrespect starts early in medical school - ( I am shocked by this one. I though that medical school students would be passionate about helping people. Does that mean Primary doctors do not help people?)
[Primary</a> care disrespect starts early in medical school | KevinMD.com](<a href=“http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2009/11/primary-care-disrespect-starts-early-medical-school.html]Primary”>Primary care disrespect starts early in medical school) </p>

<p>6) 87.6% of medical school graduates carrying an average of $155,000 in debt3-
<a href=“http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/ld-student-debt.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/15/ld-student-debt.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>7) A special case shows additional consideration for marriage - $500K of Student Loan - [the-555000-student-loan-burden:</a> Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/108846/the-555000-student-loan-burden?mod=edu-continuing_education]the-555000-student-loan-burden:”>http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/108846/the-555000-student-loan-burden?mod=edu-continuing_education)</p>

<p>If my oldest son has your (or his younger brother’s) aptitude, I would encourage him to pursue business or law. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

445

<p>Ace,
Residents no longer have 36 hour work days.
An 80-hour weekly limit, averaged over four weeks. Review Committees for various specialties may set more restrictive standards. Moonlighting done in the sponsoring institution counts toward the weekly limit. In addition, program directors must ensure that external and internal moonlighting does not interfere with the resident’s achievement of the program’s educational goals and objectives.
Adequate rest between duty periods.
A 24-hour limit on continuous duty time, with an additional period up to six hours permitted for continuity of care and educational activities.
One day in seven free from all patient care and educational obligations, averaged over four weeks.
In-house call no more than once every three nights, averaged over four weeks.
([ACGME</a> | Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education](<a href=“http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/newsRoom/newsRm_dutyHours.asp]ACGME”>http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/newsRoom/newsRm_dutyHours.asp))</p>

<p>The debt is large, but the income more than makes up for it to live a comfortable lifestyle. (perhaps not as much as a corporate lawyer, but their hours are worse).</p>

<p>Saving a life is cool</p>

<p>Why are docs leaving:
most cyte malpractice and government controls as the number one cause.
the days of the private practice doc are probably over.</p>

446

<p>Princess’Dad,</p>

<p>Thanks for the new info. I was a little bit too pessimistic. After glancing through the law school and business school posts, I believe that medicine still provides a very rewarding career path as long as the medical resident can endure the loneliness if single or can have a supportive spouse if married. Parents have the responsibility to inform their HS boys/girls of the challenges ahead and to support them during those very difficult years of their life.</p>

447

<p>Ace
I don’t think that even a traditional surgical residency (which don’t exist anymore after the 80 hr work week) can compete with the corporate lawyer lifestyle. My friends whom joined big NY firms worked easily 20 hours a day for the first 5 - 10 years of their lifes until they made partner - but only a small % do make partner. Yes, they are paid about 10 times what a doc is, but…</p>

<p>Very few of the male surgical residents or docs that I know, or knew, were lonely – there was plenty of companionship available. The same does not hold true of female residents.
Most surgical residents are very happy, in fact all ‘polls’ have shown this. But, they get to do an appi or a gall bladder which medical residents don’t. Most radiology and pathology residents have a very normal lifestyle.
There are quite a few suicides during residency - my old program had one about every third year – but that was not more than any other intense program.</p>

<p>I think HS kids need to decide what they want to do with their lives. If making money is their goal, then medicine is definately not the choice now. If healing the sick and saving lives is, then the goal is worth the climb.</p>

448

<p>Princess’Dad,</p>

<p>Thanks for providing the details. I will ask my son to read your post. </p>

<p>Only a very small elite group of the law students can have a chance to reach that level. If the goal is a T-14 law school, it is probably more competitive than the tier 2-3 medical schools. I would conclude that medicine is still an excellent career path for capable students who also have the virtue of patience and compassion.</p>

449

<p>Dr. Karl Watts of Genesis World Mission in Boise, Idaho.</p>

<p>Here is an interview with him on the moral course for health care:</p>

<p>[HopeandHealing.org</a> - Christian Sacrifice and Health Care Reform: Q&A with Karl Watts](<a href=“Home - Hope and Healing International”>Home - Hope and Healing International)</p>

<p>he’s done great work.</p>

450

<p>So everyone was talking about how money should not be the motivating factor behind choosing to be a doctor and I’ve heard the line, “There are better ways to make money than going in medicine,” about 20 times. I’ve also heard, “only people who can’t see themselves doing anything else go into medicine” (by the director of Doctor Diaries documentary on NOVA, check it out). It’s kind of obvious by now that medicine is a field where you got to make a ton of sacrifices and it’s something that you really need to feel motivated about or else you’ll never be able to endure. It’s nice to sprout ideals and all, like “I want to save lives,” but honestly, doctors are not that omnipotent and it’s kind of arrogant to say something like that. That being said, I think that everyone needs to have their own reason for being a doctor, and no one should be able to say, oh you can’t be a doctor with a reason like that. If that reason is good enough that the person will walk through magma to be a doctor, it should be enough for all those med school interviewers and society in general.
I don’t really get why people get incensed when the words money and salary and doctor are mentioned in the same sentence. The field of medicine is getting to be increasingly more business and technology oriented, just look at all the new programs that have doctors taking courses in business know how (Upenn, duke etc). It’s the 21st century, and money will always be in the back of people’s minds. Doctors deserve a high salary and that’s why they get it most of the time. It’s not bad to be concerned about money when you’re a doctor. It’s because people don’t want to be concerned about money and the lack of it that they are concerned over it. Maybe I’m just a realist, but people who never think of money when they work To some people, a doctor is kind of a dream of a stable future. </p>

<p>Of course, no one who becomes a doctor ever become one simply because they want to earn a lot of money. There are always other factors, other reasons, other inspirations. Every day another reason will spring up in favor of being a doctor, and thanking God that you became one in the end. Despite all the troubles that come with it, there are boons, and it’s for this equilibrium of giving and receiving that makes medicine a stable and desirable field to be in.</p>

<p>P.S. This is not a response to anything in particular, simply my opinion on a certain point of view that’s been irking me for a long time. A long time ago when someone asked me why I wanted to be a doctor, I didn’t give a reply that “satisfied” (I mentioned the words stable and salary, but I was in sixth grade, cut me some slack), and I’ve been thinking about the reason ever since then. II meant to answer the question, Is a career in medicine really worth it, but looking back at my answer, I can’t remember what I was going to say. What I mean to say, is probably, since there are so many reasons not to be a doctor and so many reasons to be a doctor, you might as well stop thinking about it, since the end will be the same and just figure out what your true calling is, all reasoning aside.</p>

451

<p>you know there are other jobs in medicine other than becoming a doctor… if you love medicine you can become a PA or a NP, it requires fewer years, their pay isnt bad and they are respected careers… just my 2 cents</p>

452

<p>Are you replying to me personally or making a point to the general public? In my post, I was just making a point that it’s not against the commandments or morally wrong for a doctor to be thinking about money. Since a doctor is a career and thus classified as remunerative work by its definition, people expect to paid for the work they do for society. Doctors are not tantamount to Mother Theresa.</p>

453

<p>meshoe
Nothing wrong with “stable and decent salary”. </p>

<p>But definitely wrong with “for the money”</p>

<p>There is a big differance between the two.</p>

454

<p>I am seriously considering a career in the medical field, for these reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I enjoy working with organic and biological matter, as well as knowing that I am HELPING somebody out, rather than playing dark trade secrets in the business world. Looking specifically at oncology, since my family has a long history of cancer.</p></li>
<li><p>Stability. I come from a family with multiple layoffs in our history unfortunately. That has to change, and from what I hear and see, medicine is the most stable other than government</p></li>
<li><p>Last, money. Kinda ties into the stability thing. Not planning on buying 5 bughattis, but you know, a decent house and a decent car and a decent living and STABLE living environment where i can raise a family without having to worry about losing a job.</p></li>
</ol>

455

<p>i’m going to be a doctor. money isn’t an issue with me because i hate spending money and will never need much money. this thread is legendary. although healthcare may be bad now, it must improve. healthcare is america’s biggest industry, and america isn’t going to let this decline. </p>

<p>is it worth it to become a doctor? if you’re passionate enough about it, yes. </p>

<p>doctors have been around for thousands of years, and they will continue to be the highest respected members of society because of the time they sacrifice to become what they are.</p>

<p>and most importantly, being a doctor is fun.</p>

456

<p>Why does everyone assume money isnt a sufficient motivator.?Some of us can pass any exam on the planet as long as we know there is a decent paycheck at the end.which makes med school look so attractive…</p>

457

<p>Because medicine is NOT the most financially lucrative field if you just want the money. The long years of brutal work at quarter-pay put you into a financial hole relative to your peers in law and business that you’ll never climb out of.</p>

<p>Which is not to say that physicians will starve. It does say that if your main goal is money, medicine is the wrong field to choose.</p>

458

<p>If you are a very bright,very high achieving guy from a poor background at a state school,which is the most financially lucrative field to go in?In addition,one is very good in math(top 1%),but does not attend an investment banking target school</p>

459

<p>I mean, there’s a ton of things. The NYT recently reported that even plumbers do better than some physicians – because they can earn money starting earlier, pay lower taxes, and invest it better.</p>

<p>If you can do very well on the LSAT, high-paying law firm work is much more lucrative than any field of medicine.</p>

<p>If you can find a good job and spend 3-4 years before jumping to an MBA, that too will be much more lucrative.</p>

<p>If you’re not at a target but have an impressive resume otherwise, you can simply cold-call major banking and consulting firms. You will get rejected – a lot – but you might find somebody receptive.</p>

<p>If you join the navy as an aviator – or the air force as any kind of pilot – you can work for the military for a long time, have a good career, and then once your military pension kicks in you can also fly a commercial airliner on an excellent income in addition to military pension.</p>

<p>You can see that there’s a ton of options. When even plumbers are doing better than doctors, you can imagine that the rest of the list is pretty long.</p>

460

<p>I think the MBA route looks better.I have high verbal scores on most ability tests,but am not fluent,so law is out.I will also try investment banks.The military option is out.Thank you</p>