<p>Read this whole thread, although much of it is accurate I would like to point out a few things. People seem to think that the posted salary surveys for doctors are gross income. This is not true, malpractice and overhead has already been taken out. You will not be buying private jets as a physician, however it is still a pretty lucrative career. A general family practitioner these days usually grosses around 300-400K. After malpractice and overhead it comes around to a 160-200K salary. Specialties on the other hand can make much more. A general surgeon gets paid 250-400K a year. MGMA is the only company that provides accurate information on doctor salaries, it’s what hospitals use to hire physicians. Many of the really low salaries you hear about from doctors is usually in academic medicine. These are doctors who split their time between practicing medicine, research, and teaching. Making money is not their primary concern since most academic physicians top out at around 150K.</p>
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<p>I don’t think anybody’s been making this mistake. Taxes have NOT been taken out, which is why we’re adjusting appropriately in making long-term calculations.</p>
<p>NYT:
<a href=“New Doctors Awash in Debt - The New York Times”>New Doctors Awash in Debt - The New York Times;
<p>CEO’s earn more than doctors when you look at bonuses etc. however, not every person who does business becomes a CEO. However, just about every doctor is a doctor.</p>
<p>High tuition costs aren’t specific to medicine. I know high school teachers that went to private school and racked up 6 figure debts. At least in medicine you are guaranteed a great salary. Even as a PCP, earning around 180K it shouldn’t be all that difficult to pay off a 200K debt. Loan forgiveness is becoming more and more common. Especially for PCPs who work in rural areas.</p>
<p>Yes… Even If it’s with animals if is a great experience. But, it’s not for everyone so you should probably follow a vet for a day or a doctor and see if any medicine is for you.</p>
<p>The arguments in this thread reminded me of a quote I read somewhere.</p>
<p>Medicine is as close to healing as prostitution is to love.</p>
<p>Ok, so I’m about to start med skool at what is prolly the MOST expensive skool, tuition is $50k/yr and I already have about $70k in undergrad debt, so, realistically, as I have no savings/family to contribute, I’m looking at $300-$400k in debt after 4 years of hell. Now, I’m very, very keen on living in the EU or Canada, I really want out of the US for (reasons I wont get into here-but I am a born and bred Californian)—so <em>I’ve been thinkin</em>, maybe I can re-locate to another country and practice medicine there and run out on my american debt. I doubt that my license can be pulled for failing to pay back loans, and I’m sure that the feds/private lenders wont bother chasing me down in Europe, so maybe that’s a way out. Any thoughts (and, please spare me the ethical criticisms of my idea–I have 5 friends from various countries in the EU and med/higher ed is FREE there in many countries- as it should be here, so skipping out on outrageous debt, in my mind, in not moral high treason)…could this work? How hard would it be for an American anesthesiologist to relocate to EU and would I have to finish my residency first or could I go right after skool?</p>
<p>Btw, talk about finding it hard to commit to going into medicine, right now working 24 hrs/week as an RN I’m pulling in $82k/year, no OT required–which if I did work it would pay >$120/hr–so, I’m REALLY finding it hard to get off that fence, I’ve gotta decide by June/July since I’m supposed to start in Aug 11. Only reason I dont wanna stay in nursing it it’s (IMO) intellectually boring and painfully hard on the back/body (and I pretty much hate it)…hope to hear from multiple perspectives</p>
<p>I’ve been reading this thread for a while now, and its made me even more confused than I already was. I’m currently a senior in high school and am not sure if i should go into nursing (to become a nurse practitioner) or a doctor. I’m extremely passionate about science but my parents aren’t extremely wealthy and if I do end up becoming a nursing major, for some reason I think I would feel like I’m selling myself short (I’m not saying that nursing isn’t a beautiful and challenging career). Does anybody have any insight?m</p>
<p>Well you can have the best of both world. If you want you can get a nursing degree and as long as you do the pre med requirements (Biology, Chemistry, Orgainc Chemistry, Calculus and Physics) you will have the option for medschool. I work with a lot of Nurse Practioners and god bless them! </p>
<p>In many ways NP’s are permanent interns. I have a mostly hospital based practice. the NP’s see the inpatients every day, write notes, discharge and make sure nothing falls through the cracks. While they do not progress up the ranks, they have the advantage of regular hours, regular pay a bit more security and limited responsibility. My NP friends think in a great trade off.</p>
<p>If you want to have the buck stop at you desk, then you can go on to Medschool and the time and rigors it intails. If you find you love nursing, no harm done.</p>
<p>This was essentially what I did, I already had a bach degree, wasn’t sure if I wanted NP, MD or PA, so I enrolled in a rapid Master’s level Nursing program, became a nurse in one year, then took the pre-reqs for MD school—took about 3 years as I had no science background–and started working on an ICU hosp floor while applying to med schools…NO I dont have NP experience b/c I didn’t finish the rest of my master’s program. However, I did take several of the upper div NP course, and I can honestly say that the rigour and depth of the NP course PALED in comparision to what I knew was taught to med students (bf was in her 2nd year and I’d check out her books all the time)…that being said, I think the choice is really a lot about lifestyle and passion for in-depth scientific understandings of illness/healing. Right now I work as a floor nurse, I may excellent money, work 24 hrs/week, do not take the job home w/me, and yes, the buck stops w/the doc…lifestyle and flexiability-wise nursing is king, I made >$85k in 2010 working 24 hrs/week. Now, on the other hand, I’m bored as **** in my job, the learning curve for new grads is sharp but short, eg you learn a lot in th first year and after that, it’s pretty much a job done in your sleep…now medicine, is, I think, a less steep learning curve that is much, much longer, you never stop learning w/medicine, but along w/that comes 4yrs of school, a min of 3yrs residency, A TON of debt, my bf just graduated w/$379k med skool debt, long hours, 36hr shift, being on call, etc, etc…of course, there are variations, you could be a dermatologist, but you better be in the top 5-10% of your class or you wont get a residency, that’s the other little piece of bs, you can work your butt off to get in, study your hardest while in med school, and still not match into a residency of you choice, yes, in the end, you could end up not being able to be an osteo surgeon or derm based on your med school performance…It’s a lot to think about, but a good approach is to start w/nursing, if you are lucky go to a 4 yr university that has a nursing degree, take all those pre-med classes while there, earn some money at a nursing job and shadow lots of docs and see where your at…I’m already accepted into several md programs and I"m still on the fence about going, not b/c i love nursing, bc i actually kinda hate nursing, but b/c i’m still wary of the loss of self/free time/ etc that goes w/medicine…my 2 cents</p>
<p>hey just bumping my question earlier about leaving the US to practice med in EU and thereby bailing out on my loans which will be >$400k by the time i’m done…any idea of it’s possible to evade the fed/private lenders by just packing up and moving on…again spare me any ethical critiques</p>
<p>Student loans are going to be the next bubble. The only reason banks are willing to lend 18 to 26 year olds ten to hundreds of thousands of dollars is that the debts are not bankruptable. If your parents cosign they don’t even go away at death and your cosigner can lose everything. There is no guarantee that the degree - any degree - will lead to a job that will allow one to pay off the debt and prosper. As far as leaving the country, when and if you come back the debts will be waiting and will have increased over time. Also practicing in other countries is as restrictive as FMG’s practicing here. More practical ways of limiting debt are to sell yourself into indentured servitude – e.g. the military for a number of years of loan forgiveness programs with HHS in underserved areas or the Indian Health Service.</p>
<p>I gonna be a doctor. My mommy say I can do it. I are very smart they say.</p>
<p>I’m a high school junior, and I’m stuck right now. Obviously, I have time to decide on a career. I’m really interested in medicine, and I want to make a difference in people’s lives. I only need a salary which will help me raise a stable family. But I’m hesitant about becoming a doctor because I’m afraid I’ll have to sacrifice most of my personal life to make it. I would love to become a doctor, but not if it takes away my life outside of school. I don’t want to sound naive, as I can see why anyone needs to work hard
in order to become a doctor. Is a career as an MD okay for me, or are there any other possibilities I should look at? Thanks for any advice.</p>
<p>pharmacist!</p>
<p>I know too many unemployed pharmacists. Think about that area carefully.</p>
<p>Pharmacy is getting dicey because insurance companies are encouraging/forcing people to use mail-order pharmacies. </p>
<p>Running student, you might want to consider becoming a physician assistant or a nurse practioner. 5 years out of high school you can be on the job, doing much the same work as a doctor, with less hassle and less debt. Malpractice insurance is a lot less for a PA because ultimately responsibility lies with the supervising MD. The training is rigorous and fast-paced, and licensing requirements means continuing education (but that’s part of being responsible to your patients, anyway).</p>
<p>Obamacare includes grants for encouraging PA’s to work in primary care. My kid just received $44000 from the fed government to do what she wanted to do anyway. She’d thought of med school (wanted to serve in doctors without borders) but the only way she could have afforded it was through joining the military. Then she decided she didn’t want to put off having children until after 7 years of med school and residency, and another 7 while serving Uncle Sam. Now Uncle Sam is paying her bills, with no obligations.</p>
<p>Only go into medicine if 1) your family can pay most of your tuition ( otherwise you are screwed with 150,00-200,00 debt that IS NEVER FORGIVEN 2) if your family doesn’t have $200,000 sitting around for you and you are willing to do 1) Navy or 2)Airforce for residency- they will pay off your debt but you have to work 5 years for them. Airforce you are safe; navy- you can get attached to a marine combat brigade and off to Afghanistan you go. I hear Marines are fond of their docs so they will probably work hard to keep you alive. If you trot out of med school with 100-200K debt, you will spend the next 10+ years paying that off. Unless you go into surgery or do anti-aging medicine quackery, you are in deep financial doo-doo. Eventually you will resort to becoming a big pharmacy shill or engage in some form of quackery to make ends meet (ie selling dubious supplements -SAM-e ( oh, too bad it can’t cross the blood brain barrier!) . You will quickly get tired of patients bringing in printouts from wikipedia or other quack sites. There is no purpose in arguing with them. Just nod and say, well, if you want to try (homeopathic/colonic cleansing/acupuncture with dirty needles/chiropractic (hope don’t get a cervical artery dissection!) magnets, drinking urine , consuming contaminated products from India or china (hmmm, arsenic…coumadin…etc) GO FOR IT! If my patient is not mentally ■■■■■■■■ or demented, they decide what they want. I have given up on trying to dissuade health consumers from their chosen poisons. There is no point. Of course, they always want a little Xanax and adderall, so there you have it. If this sounds great, vy all means, go to medical school, just know your debt will hang over you for 1-2 decades.</p>
<p>All residents pop out their babies by 32-33. No one wants Trisomy 21 issues (ie- to abort or not) Some Downs kids with mild MR are great-cute,sweet kids for ever. But if your daughter wants kids, and isn’t 100% on board with raising a Trisomy 21 child, oh you can bet she will get pregnant as soon as she can. ADA and FMLA protect pregnant residents now She is screwed if she wants non-OB surgery. In that case, wait and find a good reproductive OB to help create a kid</p>