Is a degree worth it?

I was so sure I wanted a double degree in music and computer science and I finally got the chance to pursue the two of them at Columbia University. It would be a BS and BA 3-2 program.

But after looking at the alumni and where they’ve ended up - an alarming number of them are Starbucks baristas. :confused: And I think of the 60 I looked up from the last three years - most of them are working in finance or retail or management and I think maybe 5-6 are working in music (but mainly indirectly as like a manager at the met or music editor etc).

I was really excited to get a degree and that was my main reason for choosing Columbia - that flexibility, but now I feel sort of disillusioned. Is it worth it?

What do you want the BA degree in music for? What purpose will it serve? Are you intending to go to grad school for an MM? There’s no reason you can’t take music classes as electives, participate in ensembles, and take lessons - all without getting a degree. You want to learn to compose. You want to sing. There’s no reason you have to get a BA in music to take classes and sing in a chorus.

@SpiritManager I was hoping to possibly sing in professional choirs or operas or productions and compose professionally too maybe for films etc. I also want to be surrounded by a musical environment and great instruction etc.

So you are doing a BA in music, which is an academic liberal arts degree. Are you performing? Are you composing and having pieces played? Do you have a composition teacher, or a voice teacher, or both?

Composers generally go on to grad school. Many of the top film scoring programs like you to get a foundational degree in composition first (like USC). You can certainly continue that way.

Vocal performers also benefit from grad work. Have you had any good roles while at school?

Then again, computer science will on doubt afford you a way to make a living, and you can continue with music both as an extracurricular and as an amateur eventually.

Remember that it is a gift to do what you love during undergrad years, regardless of career outcome!

A double degree is perfect, and exactly what I would recommend to someone with serious interest in music. It keeps musical options open for the future (including grad school) while ensuring that you can have a lucrative career outside music if you want/need to.

Because yes, making a living in music is very hard. Making a living in computer science is much easier. You will thank yourself for having options in both.

You haven’t even started yet, and you are already ‘disillusioned’. In some of your other threads you were struggling with deciding between CMU & Columbia. By any chance, are you second-guessing your choice?

Know that looking up the outcomes of 60 alums is…extreme. And, as an aside, you don’t know what any of them came in looking for- which leads to the main point:

You have to run your own race. Somebody on another of your threads told the story of a race s/he dropped out of b/c they let other people get in their heads. Other people have to run their own races: you run yours. It’s the only one you can win.

There are ways in which Columbia will surprise and delight you- and ways in which it will disappoint you, for that is the nature of things. You will learn to navigate Columbia’s systems and pathways and (to borrow the motto of one of the schools my collegekids went to), you will ‘find a way or make one’ to get what you want from your university experience.

ps, I saw your thread about ‘did they only take me because…’. I have heard the same anxiety from so many students from so many backgrounds (seriously: 'because of… race, ethnicity, place of origin, cultural group, novel back story, physical handicap, etc), from students at multiple selective universities, in 3 countries. In almost every case the student has fretted about it and had moments of ‘imposter syndrome’ well into their second year of university. But, usually around then, most of them come to realize and genuinely accept that they actually do belong, that they are cleverer than some of their classmates, and not as clever as others, but they are definitely peers. Please do everything you can to believe that in your heart as soon as possible- the biggest regret those students have had about their university experience is all the time and emotion they wasted on worrying about that aspect of it. Hand on heart, no matter what ‘minority’ group, the university will have had multiple options to ‘tick that box’ (IF that’s what they were looking to do- a very big IF, especially for a relatively big ‘minority’ group,), and they chose you. I promise, they turned down many, many black applicants with good stats. They chose you, and they are confident that you can not only do the work, but that you will add to the community now and in the future. <3

pss, on the doing the work part- my usual advice on that is to get ahead of the game- find out the who/what/where of all the academic supports that are available- there are lots- and use them shamelessly from day 1, especially in the first 2 terms. The biggest way that first year college students- of any background- get in trouble academically is letting small issues go, thinking they can sort it out themselves and being embarrassed to ask for help. College moves fast and there are fewer assessments. 100% the new student orientation will outline a lot of the places to get help- because LOTS of students need support in making the leap from HS to college- it won’t be just you!- so, find them and use them. Use TA/Prof office hours. Do the reading for class before class, and plan your long term assignments out in advance (the due dates all cluster, and you will have nothing due for weeks and suddenly 2 term papers and 3 mid-term exams- planning is crucial). If you haven’t done much essay writing, make best friends with the folks in the writing center. You may have some study skills to catch up, some essay writing muscles to develop, but it is absolutely do-able-, no matter how bad your old school was- because you are smart and determined!

@deadgirl - the employment “data” for music degrees is no secret to most students … in a general sense.

Having a survival job is VERY common for performers when they leave school (however staying in such a job for years is not common). Also you don’t know what else these baristas are doing with their time. They may be doing a low key job to stay available for performances and auditions…again fairly common. Also it is not uncommon, in any field, to change your focus from one area to another (i.e., performance to arts management). So…yea that’s all true. It’s either a match for your personality or not.

I would suggest some career counseling. Maybe when you get to your university and do your first class schedule, you could speak openly with your advisor about a career path that matches your interests and personality. Be sure to express your concerns about music…the advisor will know how difficult a music career can be. Then he/she and you can develop a plan to move forward in your studies with more confidence.

I’m sorry. I should have been more clear I haven’t committed yet and still have CMU SCS (no music) open.

I’m still confused. And due to time I need to be blunt: did you think you would be a computer scientist by day and an opera singer by night? Two full time professions? Or do you have a preference or you don’t know yet?

In general, with a dual degree, one degree ends up primary and the other secondary. Of course that can change for grad school where the secondary can be primary for a few years. Still college/life is not a candy store. You will have to make choices. How strongly you desire one or the other or both degrees could inform your decision.

There’s an old saying with performance degree: if you can imagine doing anything else, do it. If you can’t, then get a performance degree. In many cases music picks the student…they don’t pick music. Music students know the odds but still pursue a degree. If you truly hesitate about music (which is perfectly fine) maybe extracurricular music is a fine choice for you.

If money and time are not an issue, why not do a double degree? But if money and time matter, maybe extra curricular music is fine for you?

I would still encourage you to talk with a school guidance counselor, private music teacher and/or family and close friends. Maybe try to vocalize with them your career goals and the needed degrees. These people know you best and should be able to help you with an important decision.

I’m not sure yet! My voice teacher is amazing, but she works multiple day jobs and goes away sporadically for operas and stuff like that. My choir teacher is similar - she tours with a choir, but is a full time HS teacher. I was hoping to maybe do something along those lines. But I’m honestly not sure…

Well…then maybe you keep both doors open for now.

Still I think it’s a great discussion to have with your parents and teachers. Good luck.

This is exactly what seems to have spooked you in looking up the alum outcomes at the top of the thread. Your teachers have chosen a challenging path- and because you are inspired by them, I’m guessing it’s a choice that they are happy with: they work those multiple jobs because it lets them patch together the performance pieces, and share their love of music with the new ones (like you) coming up behind them.

Not sure why you still have a choice to make (unless you just came off a waitlist), but is the question really ‘is a degree worth it’? is it ‘should I go with CMU or Columbia’? or is it something else?

Oh - it’s sort of both! I’m deciding between the two schools and I could get a double degree at Columbia.

The music major at Columbia is an academic major, not a performance major. It includes theory, ear training, music history and other topics, and to some extent, there is credit for lessons and performance. I assume any opera performance would be extracurricular.
https://music.columbia.edu/undergraduate-study/music-at-columbia-college

You can do lessons and performance there without majoring in music, right?

Carnegie Mellon, on the other hand, offers a BFA and has an actual vocal performance program in the degree. And, of course, a BS in computer science. https://www.cmu.edu/cfa/music/programs/undergraduate-programs/index.html

If you go to Columbia, I would think you could start out in computer science, which is a pretty intense and sequential area of study, and participate in music in extracurriculars, and take some electives.

Have you committed to a double degree at Columbia in some way? I am confused about your status.

I really hope you can relax a little about career outcome. Clearly computer science affords a relatively reliable way to support yourself. Music majors do all kinds of things, and yes some continue in music, some don’t.

Is the “3” in the 3-2 computer science? This sounds like a stressful way to go. I would think about doing CS with music on the side unless you truly want to do vocal performance, and if you do, Columbia doesn’t really offer it formally.

Am I missing something?

For CS - you don’t commit to a double degree program between SEAS and CC until junior year. Up until then, I’d just be double majoring in CS and music in the college.

Look. At some point you will have to decide between the two. I read on your other posts that they are financially the same to attend for you. Go with your gut, and stop overanalyzing. Both schools are excellent. There is no wrong choice. From your own analysis it sounds like both schools have enough of what you want academically and musically, so comes down to where you can see yourself and find likeminded peers. Is being close to family important? Which would be easier to get home from for a long weekend if you felt the need to escape? Which social scene is more appealing? What student body feels more like “your people”? Which has better dorms? Make a list of all the things you love about each school and see what list is longer. Do it quickly, right off the top of you’re head. That will give you an indication of where you’re heart wants you to go and then commit!

Oh @deadgirl - yet another thread? This makes like 10 in the last month and a half. You have gotten so much advice…and you haven’t taken any of it. You keep asking questions and starting new threads. YOU have to make the decision. And guess what? It is not jail…you can change your major, change your school, etc. Now go commit and don’t look back! You got this!

I haven’t seen the other threads. I looked up computer science at Columbia. https://www.cs.columbia.edu/education/undergraduate/

You can continue with a BA in computer science and do music as a double major, minor or extracurricular.
Or you can continue in the college and then go to SEAS (Engineering) if you want a BS.

There are many ways to do computer science and keep music in your life, and the two fields intersect as well.

I don’t understand the problem.

You want NYC or Pittsburgh? Keep it simple.

As the parent of three young adults who are out of college and grad school reading your posts my first thought is “This student needs a gap year”.

I would seriously think of taking a gap year so you can try on a variety of hats without the pressure of picking a direction or the stress of competing. Maybe even do something completely different like travel or work on a farm to expose yourself to what is out there.

I think many students go to college reflexively because it is what they believe they are supposed to do and not what they necessarily want to do but because it is the easy next step to take after high school. But talk to any professor and they will tell you the best students are the ones who did a gap year and entered college knowing what they wanted to get out of the experience and having a better understanding of themselves.

In the words of Angela Merkel who gave Harvard’s Commencement speech this week, “Don’t just do what is easy or what is expected.”