So for most of my schools, my scores at the cutoff for the middle range. Like if it said 30-33 I’d have a 30. But, is this an end all be all? If the GPA is good should it be? Technically, it’s in the range… I read an article by some lady on Vanderbilt admissions that said you should aim for this range and the rest of your application will be strongly considered. (Idk if that’s what it said exactly).
But yeah is it really the end of the line if I have a score like that? I have safeties fwiw.
It’s not an end all be all, but you need to stand-out elsewhere in order to sort of “make up” for it. Test scores to matter quite a bit, but so does GPA and your ECs and Essays. If you can really shine through there, then you have a shot.
Test scores are the one way colleges can compare across the applicant pool. Often students around the 25% mark and lower who are accepted are hooked in some way. Be sure you have schools on your list where your scores fall above the 50% mark, too.
OP seems to have some mighty competitive colleges on the list. The general advice is to be near the 75th percentile.
It’s not that simple. Scores are one of many factors that are considered at selective, holistic colleges. Some students get accepted with lower than average scores compared to other matriculating students, just as some students get accepted with relatively poor essays or LORs compared to other matriculating students. You may have a good chance of admission or a poor chance of admission, depending on the rest of your application and the specific school. Schools also have wildly varying degrees of selectivity, yield, and how they treat scores in admission. The average admit rate for applicants with your scores will often dramatically vary between schools, even if the score is in the same percentile of matriculating students.
For example, you mentioned that you are interested in Middlebury. Middlebury is test flexible and allows you to submit SAT II subject tests instead of SAT/ACT. Obviously ACT scores would be less influential if you chose to not submit them. Schools that have such test optional/flexible policies often place less weight on test scores when they are submitted. Middlebury’s CDS suggests this may be the case with Middlebury. Their CDS marks 6 other criteria as more important than scores. Test scores are also considered in the context of your application. You mentioned that you would apply to Middlebury as either planned Art History or Geography. Your scores are not well balanced (34, 34, 29, 25), so admissions will likely consider which sub-scores had the 34s, which had the 25, and how those subject scores relates to your prospective Art History or Geography major. They’ll also consider whether the rest of application is consistent with those scores. If the scores are part of consistent pattern that suggests a prospective math major is weak in math, then that will likely be treated differently than a prospective English major applicant who had a lower math ACT, but got an 800 on his math II and is straight A student in math, including in AP calculus.
You also mentioned being interested in Cornell Art and Architecture. The different schools at Cornell often emphasize different admission criteria, which can lead to treating scores differently. Some also have notably different scores averages than the overall average listed in the CDS. Art & Architecture requires submitting a portfolio, which can be a key factor in admissions. A student with a great portfolio and great rest of application likely has a good chance of admission with your scores. A student who has a weak portfolio and weak rest of application is likely going to be rejected, even if he has perfect scores. Some related quotes from Cornell’s website are below:
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Vanderbilt is known for placing a greater emphasis on scores than the vast majority of other selective, holistic colleges. There are also some less holistic colleges that almost entirely admit by stats. It’s not just a single admission system. However, you didn’t mention being interested in Vanderbilt or less holistic colleges, so this may not be relevant.
The thing with those ranges is that there will always be people who get in with lower scores. The question is what do they bring to the table that the colleges want? A special talent, they offer diversity (race, geographic,first generation etc) Maybe they got in, because they took challenging classes and did well. Maybe their teacher recs were amazing. Maybe their essays were loved by admissions or they could be full pay. The bottom line is that you need something. As long as you have safeties on the list then you should be fine. Go for it.
No of course not its 25th percentile. Nobody is excluded because their scores are within the IQR.
“Standardized test scores are only a small part of your application for admission. Let me say that again, standardized test scores are only a small part of your application for admission. SAT or ACT scores represent one Saturday in your high school career…”
Cornell can write whatever it wants on it’s website, but my kid’s HS Naviance tells me that if you fall below a certain ACT/SAT score, you don’t get into Cornell no matter what your GPA is. Maybe SAT/ACT plays a small part in determining who gets admitted to Cornell, but it does not play a small part in determining who gets rejected.
How do you know that the reason they were rejected was their SAT/ACT score and not that they had course rigor, ECs/awards, LORs, essays, and rest of app that are typical for that SAT/ACT score? That is how can you know the score was the cause of the rejection and it was not instead a combination of other portions of the application that are correlated with score, or the full application in a holistic sense as the Cornell quote implies?
Looking at my HS’s Naviance shows a different pattern. Being a public HS in upstate NY, it has a large sample of hundreds of Cornell applicants from a wide variety of stat ranges – far more applicants that all other Ivy League colleges combined. It shows the majority of Cornell applicants from my HS with a 96%+ UW GPA were admitted at all SAT score ranges. However, the sample size is not statistically significant for applicants with 96%+UW GPA and below 1200/1600, so that combination is not clear. While the majority were admitted for all scores in this 96%+ GPA group, the admit rate increased as SAT score increased for this top UW GPA group. There does appear to be a significant correlation between SAT score and acceptance in this GPA range and others, but the correlation between GPA and acceptance appears to be much stronger. Admit rate dropped dramatically for below 95% GPA at all SAT ranges, yet a few were admitted with as low as 90%. However, some applicants were also rejected with as high as 99% UW GPA + 1600 SAT. No stat range appears to guarantee acceptance at my HS. Different individual HSs will likely show different patterns.
@Data10: Did the information you reference break things down by what school at Cornell the student applied to? Because, AFAIK, the contract colleges at Cornell have higher admit rates (and so might accept a wider range of test scores).
@3artkid3: As the parent of two kids who’ve gone through the process, one unhooked with scores above the middle range and one hooked with scores near the lower end of the middle range…all I can say is that I would NOT look at the lower end of the range as some promise that “anything can happen”. I think if you were to unpack the applicants with stats at that end of the range, you’d find a number of recruited athletes or otherwise “hooked” applicants. Can it happen? Sure. Do I like your chances? No.
Sorry if I’m coming off as harsh, but I think that many posters on CC are overly encouraging and can set up disappointment. I’d rather you be pleasantly surprised than let down.
A score in the bottom 25% is not a “deal breaker”, but neither is it the place you want to be without a very strong hook or spike. One or two “Hail Mary” applications are fine, though, as long as you are showing time and love to your match schools and their applications.
Yes, the different schools at Cornell treat scores differently for admission purposes and have different score averages. For example, Cornell Engineering has a 75th percentile ACT composite of 36
(as listed on ASEE.org), while Cornell Hotel School has a far lower 75th percentile ACT of 33 (as listed on cornell.edu). Cornell Engineering’s 25th percentile math is higher than Cornell Hotel’s 75th percentile composite.
However, this does not mean a 33 ACT prospective engineer will have better chance of admission if they apply to the Hotel School where they are >75th percentile, then later transfer over to engineering. Instead 84% of students matriculating to the Hotel school have experience working in the hospitality industry. Cornell Hotel is looking for persons who truly want to go in to the hospitality industry and have related work experience, preferably with a glowing LOR from that experience. They are probably more forgiving of lower scores than Cornell Engineering, particularly lower scores in math/science. They aren’t looking high scoring prospective engineers (or other non-hospitality fields) who claim to be interested in hospitality, but show no evidence of that interest in their application. I’d expect the prospective engineering student would have better odds of admission at Cornell Engineering over Cornell Hotel, even though his score is a much lower percentile at the former.
Not specifying which school at Cornell the student applied to is one reason why the admission decisions do not strictly follow stats in Naviance, but it is far from the only one. For example, the Hotel school is also not the only one that thinks it is important to see evidence of the student excelling in out of classroom experience related to their desired field or the only school that places a good amount of consideration on LORs and numerous other non-stat factors.
I learned this from a different thread. Those ranges are for those who are admitted, not who enroll. So a school claiming mid 25-75% as 30-33, enrolled average more likely a 29-31. The higher the school is ‘rated’ the closer to the admit 25-75% the enrolled class is likely to be. CC is so top end weighted it is sometimes difficult to see the wood from the trees. A 36 ACT student may be admitted to 10 schools but they can only attend 1.
The federal standard reporting is for “first-time, first-year (freshman) students enrolled in Fall {year} who submitted national standardized (SAT/ACT) test scores.” Enrolled scores are used for the CDS, IPEDS, College Navigator and nearly any external website. However, some colleges instead list score ranges for admitted students on their website or both admitted and enrolled. As you noted, admitted scores are often higher than enrolled. Schools that have low yields are more likely to have noteworthy differences between admitted and enrolled.