@eyemgh I don’t think it is the “wrong” masters. I will be taking courses geared towards machine learning in engineering, engineering optimization, etc.
I would like to work as a quant because I see it as still an “engineering” job. I do not want to be some IB banker who doesn’t utilize any technical skills. I’ve heard from educated sources that engineers, mathematicians, physicists, and people with computational finance degrees are literally the ONLY degrees sought after for quant jobs (no Finance, economics, accounting, etc allowed)
@boneh3ad: But as I’ve said, even the thesis ones are completely non-funded for masters students. I was told exactly word for word: “Our department no longer funds masters students because professors feel that by the time the students are ready to engage in worthwhile research, they are already graduating”
I realize things have changed (my father easily found funding in STEM back in the 70’s), but nowadays it seems the T20 schools absolutely refuse to give any funding (or TA or RA) for MS students. My only source of paying for a masters would be to get a job now and then wait 5-10 years and HOPEFULLY the company would pay for it.
With that in mind @boneh3ad, do you think I should work part-time and use the money gained to pay for tuition? My mom’s friend payed for an MS in materials science engineering at an elite university and he paid he paid it back almost immediately with a bonus he received (he works for Microsoft)
@eyemgh No I promise you I don’t! I’m just updating the information with what I know and looking for others to expand upon things I don’t know. I am curious why you think a masters in engineering is the ‘wrong masters’? I just want to know if you have any special insight on it. From everything I have heard, From what I understand, engineers and all STEM are now highly sought after on wallstreet because they view it as a “screening” tool for people who couldn’t do engineering and went into finance. I’ve even heard this about investment bankers and not specifically only quants. But I’m curious what your knowledge on the subject is? I’m always looking for professional input and I thank you all!
I got my PhD at a top 10 school not named Michigan in the field only a little over 2 years ago. In that department, I never once met a master’s student who wasn’t funded either through their work or through an assistantship. Not one. But hey, I am sure things have changed dramatically since then.
The bottom line is you seem to have gone into this process in the wrong frame of mind, possibly for the wrong reasons, and without doing any actual research about what you want and your options for obtaining it. I really don’t know how else to say what I am trying to say other than in the plain English I’ve been using.
You have a few options:
Go to Michigan and pay your way. You will rack up a ton of debt and it may or may not pay off, but either way you will be digging yourself out from under that debt for years.
Go to Clemson and walk out of there with what is effectively a free master's degree.
Hold off on graduate school and go get a job and have them pay for your schooling in another couple of years.
Don't go to either school and cast a wider net next year and try to land an actual funded position.
That’s really all the advice I can offer you, especially since you don’t seem to actually want to listen to any of us anyway.
@boneh3ad Would you mind telling me that school? I’ve contacted many schools and many different departments and I’ve heard the same story from each one- that the M.S. students aren’t funded because the professors feel that their expertise of research is only beginning to reach the desired levels until towards the end of the MS.
Now here are the departments I have contacted and personally been told there is no funding for MS (with thesis) students in any engineering:
Umich, CMU, Cornell (or any Ivy for that matter), Illinois, Stanford.
I have no idea about MIT, Caltech (if they even offer it), or Berkeley but I imagine they are the same as Stanford (which is a strict NO)
Did you go to Georgia Tech, UT Austin or Purdue? Those are ones I didn’t contact and they might have funding. I think I saw you say you were a GT alumnus somewhere, but I’m not sure.
Anyways, @boneh3ad, the problem would still persist that my undergrad is in an engineering specialty which no professors are working on at ANY of these schools. Can you pick up thesis advisers who are willing to give funding who know nothing about how well you can perform research in their area of expertise? The only reason I got it at Clemson is because one of the professors is working on something SLIGHTLY close to what my undergrad was in, but it’s not research which would benefit my career goals at all (even if I were to stay strictly in the engineering discipline).
I would be willing to make the trade-off of a slightly irrelevant research topic for a T10 school like Purdue or UMich only for the simple reason that it would keep me in the loop for quant jobs in finance.
@boneh3ad And what makes you think I’m not listening to any of you? I am just making sure I am weighing my options very carefully. I am definitely taking into consideration everything that is said. I just can’t say “You’re right. I’ll go to Clemson” just from a forum when I seem to be getting conflicting information from people I have physically spoken to.
It’s unanimous here that I should just go to Clemson, but the engineers I’ve personally talked to (and ones in my dept) think I should go to UMich or are neutral about it. It’s just a really tough choice…
OP, you seem to have a reason (excuse?) for every argument here NOT to go to Clemson. You are obviously not going to take the advice of this forum. So, just go to UMich and be done with it.
@HPuck35 Only because I do not know who to trust more… I have very conflicting advise from this forum and from the people I have talked to. I am just trying to get all the information I can before I make my decision. Put yourself in my shoes! On one hand I have a group of professional engineers telling me I’ll be in a lot (too much) of debt, and another group telling me (also engineers and some family) it is worth it and that Clemson automatically eliminates any idea of working outside of the engineering industry.
Can you see why I must always play devil’s advocate here???
Definitely NOT worth it. What do you eant to do with Mech Eng degree?
Actually be a engineer or just make money?
Most manufacturing jobs (leadership) requires a Eng degree, but you never do any engineering and where the degree is from isnt as important as gpa and interview.
Ive worked for KC, P&G, Nestle they all pay 65k-90k within 3 years of starting depending on roll and YOUR ability to lead.
I work qwih a guy right now 24, BSME, 4 years exp never designed anything knows bda, dmaic, 6 sigma very well though makes 98k/yr in the south graduated from a no name college.
If you want to work on wall street, the Ivy League schools, especially Princeton, Cornell and Columbia are en vogue. MIT, Stanford, Berkeley and CMU are also. Michigan is a good engineering program, but it doesn’t have the snob appeal it often takes to open the doors of finance.
Now, to opportunity cost, and why EVERYONE here is saying no to Michigan. If you were to dedicate the $1300 loan payment instead to an investment that made 6% for 10 years, and then let it sit for 35 years at 6%, you’ll have $1,500,000. That how much Michigan will cost you over a funded position. You’ll have to make that much more in your career to break even.
" (also engineers and some family) it is worth it and that Clemson automatically eliminates any idea of working outside of the engineering industry." -
If you feel strongly about Michigan, try to strike a deal with your wise old Goldman Sachs uncle. Have him cosign your loans OR strike some kind of a deal where you pay him agreed amount (maybe 5% of your salary?) til the loan is paid off… .maybe he’ll even forgive the interest.
Please do NOT ask your parents to cosign if they think you should take the Clemson no-debt deal.
I think you are right. I was accepted to Cornell as well. I might consider it as well.
@colorado_mom: They were thinking that until they did more research and talked to someone whose son self financed a masters in Chemical engineering from UPenn (not even a good engineering school) and now makes a much better salary than with just his bachelor’s.
Our relative is balking at going to get any masters at all, since in his workplace at the fed govt, he’s not seeing it make ANY difference in salary over his BEE.
He would be willing to get a masters–either MBA or MEE or similar but so far has just gotten certified in project management. His employer would pay for the masters degree, but he currently doesn’t see the point, even tho school has always been very easy for him.
The National Council of Examiners for Engineers and Surveying (NCEES) is located in Clemson across the lake from the university. This is the organization that prepares the FE and PE exams that engineers have to pass to obtain their professional license.
The NCEES would not have located in Clemson if the Clemson engineering program was not a great program. Many of the professors help write the exams, and review course for the FE exam are offered to senior students. Clemson has one of the highest pass rates on the FE exam.
Clemson has one of the largest undergrad engineering colleges in the country. It was the 21st largest one in 2015. I don’t understand how Michigan could have more prestige. It has professors who graduated from 'prestigious" colleges all over the country. Here is info on a civil engineering professor with PhD from Michigan. http://www.clemson.edu/cecas/departments/me/people/faculty/vahidi.html
The location of NCEES is completely irrelevant to the quality of nearby programs. There is absolutely no correlation there.
So… your argument is that Clemson is more prestigious than Michigan because it has professors that graduated from prestigious schools like Michigan? That makes no sense.
Basically, Michigan is unquestionably the more prestigious school and it’s not even close. The question is whether that actually matters and whether it is worth $110,000. In almost any situation the answer is no.
Thanks @boneh3ad. It would actually only about 70,000 because I thought it would take two years when in fact it only takes around 1.5 years.
People say “You shouldn’t go in more debt than your first year salary”, and considering I have near no debt (<10k) from undergrad due to scholarship, don’t you think it might be worth it? Post graduation MS stats indicate I should expect around 80k which is really good!
