<p>I actually think think that many people on the board don't realize that they have decided that HYP are the center of the universe: there's the rub.</p>
<hr>
<p>Addressing Bay,</p>
<p>While I hardly think that anyone of any economic class has a 'right' to an Elite Private, and the funds for that, I do think that public colleges could be more accessible in terms of f.a. (for the middle class). You mentioned the price tag of even 2 yrs. at U.C. I.m.o., one of the aspects that could be adjusted is f.a. based on residency. I've been irritated for quite some time at the ridiculous, meaningless residency requirement for U.C. In my day it might have even been 6 yrs. Think about it: today, ONE YEAR makes you a "resident" of CA. What a joke! It invites drive-through education; invest & produce elsewhere (before & after). At the very least, f.a. could be progressive based both on a scale of need AND on a scale of residency. To get more creative, loan pay-back could be reduced progressively for those remaining in the state, spending, earning, producing after that education.</p>
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Fast forward to my children. We have enough saved for a UC education for each child. So they have risen with the tides, and get the best deal either of their parents got. They don't need to work through college like I did, but they can if they want.
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</p>
<p>For your kids sakes, I hope they get admitted to a UC then. Its not as easy as it was back in your day. Students with top stats are turned away by most campuses. There's a good likelihood they can get a spot at UC Merced if they apply soon. But what if they are not happy there (there is a reason there is space available), and will you feel okay about spending your savings on a UCM education for them? They can try to transfer after two years, but there is the uncertainty of admittance. I think you already decided that a private school is not an option for them. The Cal State system or community college would be their options then, I suppose.</p>
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What I see going on around me however is that parents that attained that expensive private education through work and loans now want their children to get that expensive private education through grants and scholarships.
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<p>Be careful, you are walking on thin ice with this comment. FA grants and scholarships are a sacred cow now. I got myself in a lot of trouble on another thread by suggesting that FA should consist of loans (Even though that, plus working, is how I put myself through school). Of course, loans would only work now if tuition was cheaper.</p>
<p>I hope they get admitted to a UC then. Its not as easy as it was back in your day. Students with top stats are turned away by most campuses. There's a good likelihood they can get a spot at UC Merced if they apply soon. But what if they are not happy there
wow who got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?</p>
<p>My daughter who has average scores ( not for CC) and stats was admitted to the schools she applied to , in wa & ca.
It's true admission is down, from 77% in the UC system to 75%. Still pretty good numbers.</p>
<p>2collegewego notes," Yes, they're blessed ( meaning the "few" poor who get aid to private schools)-- but they're being blessed by the generous endowments of those schools, not your tax $ or even your tuition "</p>
<p>Response: OH contrare for many, many schools. Yes, for the top 15 or 20 well endowed schools, you are correct;however, for schools that don't have endowments in the billions, the "richer" and middle class families subsidize these scholarships and grants with their tuition,which becomes higher than usual.</p>
<p>I saw this at Syracuse University pre- college program who had a whopping 25% of the kids on free scholarship while I paid a hefty fee. I saw this at University of Richmond about four years ago when they bluntly announced an almost $10,000 tuition hike in order to give more "need based tuition." For the VAST, VAST majority of schools it is NOT the endowment that pays for the scholarships,but it is the tuition of the full paying suckers......er.....middle class..... who are paying for these scholarships.</p>
<p>This is common throughout the country. University of Texas requires a high school graduate in the top 10% to get accepted.</p>
<p>It can not be said enough times. Colleges are a business. A big part of that business is demonstrating diversity. That diversity is in all things. Colleges believe that the students are just as important to the "Learning process" as the curriculum is. Thus, the main reason for diversity. It is one of the rare times where I believe such quotas and manipulation of applicants is actually a good thing.</p>
<p>As such; it can be so much easier for a student to apply to an out of state school. Disagree all you want, but a student with a 3.8gpa high school from a podunk state with almost no attendance to a particular school, has a better chance of getting accepted than a local student with a 4.0gpa if the school has a large population of that state's residents. Want to increase your odds of being accepted to a school? Find the demographics of schools where you are the minority. I.e. School that is 68% female, male has a great chance. 85% white, black has a great chance. Student body of 7000 and only 1 person from Wyoming and Montana, residents of those states have a great chance. </p>
<p>College educations should not be a right given to anyone. The funds to attend should also not be a right given. It should be a mirror of society. You don't always get the job you apply to. You don't always get the pay you want. You don't always get the promotion, recognition, etc...</p>
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My daughter who has average scores ( not for CC) and stats was admitted to the schools she applied to , in wa & ca.
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<p>Congratulations to your D! I believe you are a resident of Wa, yes? If your D attends her UC option, her tuition will be $40K - $45K per year. She is fortunate that her family has the ability to make this a choice for her.</p>
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[quote]
Congratulations to your D! I believe you are a resident of Wa, yes? If your D attends her UC option, her tuition will be $40K - $45K per year. She is fortunate that her family has the ability to make this a choice for her.
<p>"Why not make the person who was laible negligent? What a concept!"</p>
<p>Because that's the same as the victims having no recourse. Most of the individuals who cause accidents have nothing, and have no insurance, so there's nothing to take from them and give to the victims. If there's criminal negligence, the state can pay to keep the perpetrator in jail, but that won't cover the cost of the victim's wheelchair. You're imagining money coming out of thin air...in other words, no recourse.</p>
<p>*Congratulations to your D! I believe you are a resident of Wa, yes? If your D attends her UC option, her tuition will be $40K - $45K per year. She is fortunate that her family has the ability to make this a choice for her.
*
You apparently haven't met my daughter- her family hasn't made many decisions for her since she was on all fours. ;)</p>
<p>She may apply next year to Santa Barbara- as I see that tuition and fees at for example is $27,000 for out of state students ( she is taking a year off & Santa Barbara is soo pretty))UCSB</a> Catalog: Undergraduate Student Fee Chart for 2007-2008,
not including any merit or outside scholarships of course, but she applied this year to Humboldt ( and has their own research vessel for undergrads) which is a Cal state school that participates in the WUE program, and offers tuition that is actually lower than some of our instate schools.
Instate tuition is less than $4,000 and with the WUE program she only will be charged 150% of that.</p>
<p>"For your kids sakes, I hope they get admitted to a UC then. Its not as easy as it was back in your day. Students with top stats are turned away by most campuses. There's a good likelihood they can get a spot at UC Merced if they apply soon. But what if they are not happy there (there is a reason there is space available), and will you feel okay about spending your savings on a UCM education for them? They can try to transfer after two years, but there is the uncertainty of admittance. I think you already decided that a private school is not an option for them. The Cal State system or community college would be their options then, I suppose."</p>
<p>Well, there are a lot of things that are not an option for them. Their father at their graduation for instance. We are lucky in that before he died we did save enough money for UC educations. </p>
<p>No, I'm not big on entitlements. I'm don't believe that if they can't make it into a UC that I need to hock everything to pay for a private education. Nor do I believe if they aren't smart enough to make it into a UC the tax payers or rich alumni need to find a way to pay for them to attend an elite private school. If they don't make it into a UC the Cal State system, and yes the community college system with transfers into the UC or Cal State system are good possibilities. If they fall in love with a private university and go for merit scholarships they can do that. </p>
<p>And, I believe there are many definitions of success. Very few involve elite private educations. As someone pointed out there are many successful careers that don't pay well. And there are many graduates of the UCs and the Cal State system that are successful on many fronts, including some very financially successful company founders. The very successful hitech company my husband worked for was founded, and is still run, by a graduate of Hayward State. His trial onocolgy doctor who was doing cutting edge research at Stanford attended UC Davis and UCSD. </p>
<p>But as for making it into the UC system, my daughter is a freshman at UCLA.</p>
<p>*But as for making it into the UC system, my daughter is a freshman at UCLA.
*</p>
<p>One of my daughters buddies ( they rode on the train together back and forth to college) is starting at UCLA this fall at the Center for Chinese studies- she loves it :)</p>
<p>Just for the record there is a big article in the Chronicle of Higher Education that noted that poor folks are being represented in lower numbers at the top 40 private schools due to lack of money. The are suggesting that the government substantilly increase the Pell Grants. </p>
<p>Here we have it folks: The government, meaning you through your taxes, want to give more entitlements.</p>
<p>Who cares about the "top 40 privates"? I think Pell Grants should be increased so that low-income folks can attend state u's and community colleges. But I don't see any need to subsidize the "top 40". (In recent years, they've simply turned around and provided more aid to those in the top quintile in any case.)</p>
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While I hardly think that anyone of any economic class has a 'right' to an Elite Private, and the funds for that, I do think that public colleges could be more accessible in terms of f.a. (for the middle class)
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<p>A very generous idea, coming from someone whose D is getting a ride to an Ivy. Yes, let's reserve the elite schools for the rich and poor, and let the middle class go to publics. Most people here believe those public schools are good enough for the middle class anyway.</p>
<p>if the government just lived up to the entitlements they
have promised and we have paid for it would be a huge
step forward. Wealthy families have undermined the system,
haven't been willing to pay their fair share and now they're
whining! For all the rich whiners on this thread - I hope your
kid gets into a real expensive college and loves it and then
I hope the place raises the tuition by astronomical amounts
every year and you have to pay. I hope you have to remortage
your home and sell off the vacation place, give up the leased
bMW's, and run your retirement accounts dry to keep your
lousy kids happy. Serve you all right!</p>
<p>Bay,
I did NOT say that they privates ALSO should not be more accessible to the middle class. (Libelous retort on your part.) Accessibility does not equal entitlement. I specifically said that no one of any economic class, rich or poor, is justified in feeling entitled to a high-priced private education. And those FEW of us (mini will clue you in on how few lower-income folks there are at Ivies) who have received generous aid are those whose circumstances you do not know & will never know their manner of previous deprivation, not to mention future economic status and relative lack of opportunity compared to many wealthier, DUAL-parent, well-networked families who will continue to have better access economically post-graduation.</p>
<p>Specifically, Bay my post 96 was in response to your complaint about the supposedly high cost of even U.C., for the middle class. </p>
<p>Reform is justified & is possible. Those with ideas in that direction would be more constructive to offer those ideas to U.C. I'm not responsible for U.C.'s, or for Ivies', f.a. policies, but you sure are going to kill the messenger for the messenger's economic circumstances, aren't you?</p>
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you sure are going to kill the messenger for the messenger's economic circumstances, aren't you?
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<p>Absolutely not! I'd like to see students of every economic circumstance have equal choices. I don't begrudge others for their disappointment in not being able to make the finances work for the college of their choice.</p>