<p>Christ, Judaism isn't an ethnicity. I'm a very secular Jew, and while there definitely is a Jewish "culture" (we all live more or less in the same area, send kids to the same few schools, have our own golf clubs), much of this clannish behaviour has been ingrained through hundreds of years of mandated separation, beginning in the Middle Ages. But "Jewish" is certainly NOT an ethnicity.</p>
<p>I might read up on this sometime, but this thread seems to be an argument about whether being Jewish is only about religion, or if it also includes ethnicity, race or culture. A search of the web tells me that this is a common question. The people saying that it is only religion would seem to imply that if you don't follow the laws of Judaism, then you stop being a Jew. This naturally leads to the question in my mind of how closely do you have to follow Judaism in order to remain a Jew.</p>
<p>ashernm: You saying that someone that converts to Christianity or other religions remain being Jewish seems to be in contradiction to what others are saying.</p>
<p>At least in the dictionary, the common English usage of the word "jewish" includes elements outside of the religion. The dictionary meaning of the word "ethnicity" would seem to include "jewish". This whole thread is about the semantics of the word "jew". I was thinking that some participants are trying to restrict the usage of the word.</p>
<p>Well, semantics is definetly in question now. The definition of ethnicity is the main iseeu as to whether or not Jews are considered to be an ethnicity. And for those that do not know, in Judaism, there are different levels of observance, although any person Jewish because his mother was jewsih is regarded as being as Jewish as any ultra-observant Rabbi, for instance, although it is likely that the Rabbi practices Judaism much, much more.</p>
<p>"I'm asking that my accomplishments and my hard work are not equal to those of a "Jew" who attends a regular high school, gets home at three, Goes out on Saturday, and has Christmas."</p>
<p>From looking at this quote, it would seem that you would want your work and accomplishments, even if equivalent to another, non-Orthodox Jew or non-Jew, to be seen as better. Is this true?</p>
<p>gusgooz1 what kind of jew?/ howjewish?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Are you reserving the word "Jew" to mean someone that really deserves to be called jewish? Devotion to ones religious beliefs (or lack thereof) is a personal matter and not a criteria I would rank anyone on. If a person is a devout Jew or an atheist, I don't care.
[/quote]
I don't care if someone is Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist or Agnostic. I am extremely tolerant and I pride myself on that. What I do care about is when somebody tries to exploit a religion for their own personal benefits. But that brings to a front why Judaism is not an 'ethnicity' in life or in college admissions. Whether or not there is race scientifically, race exists in American culture today, and is largely based on skin color. Now, I am not in the least bit racist, but discrimination occured due to skin color, and reparation (i.e URM) occurs due to skin color.<br>
[quote]
an argument about whether being Jewish is only about religion, or if it also includes ethnicity, race or culture.
[/quote]
In my eyes, someone who is an adherent to the Jewish religion had also a Jewish culture, and I don't believe the two can be separated. Someone who is not an adherent to the Jewish religion (in any form, not necessarily mine) - I can't see what a Jewish 'culture' would entail, but maybe thats just me. </p>
<p>
[quote]
From looking at this quote, it would seem that you would want your work and accomplishments, even if equivalent to another, non-Orthodox Jew or non-Jew, to be seen as better. Is this true?
[/quote]
I'm not quite sure what you are saying, but I do not seek any preferential treatment because of my religion. If you haven't gotten that from me yet I don't know where I've gone wrong. All I'm saying, is that I've worked hard, maybe extra hard because I am an Orthodox Jew, and I want that to be seen, independent of my religion. I would in no way disclose my religion to colleges in order to look for preferential treatment, although it is probably not hard for them to figure out by examining my school and my schedule.
On a side note, I apologize for my last post, I said some things in anger that may be offensive to some people, and I am sorry. I wish to in no way belittle anyones religous beliefs or actions and I apologize if I came off that way.</p>
<p>wow...everyone got WAY off track on the simple question of whether one's nationality is useful or not...</p>
<p>Dufus, the status of being a jew is either inherited or gained from conversion. Every rabbi I have had has said that once a jew always a jew, and that you can never become a nonjew. It does not have to do with ethnicity, just a different understanding of religion.</p>
<p>cool2bars simply said that somethings, specifically ECs, are more difficult because he has less time, ie no saturdays and gets out late every day of the week except friday.</p>
<p>No, I think you pretty much have it right, though I'm no expert myself. Jewish CAN be a race, if we can still talk of race. White non-hispanic refers to people of European origin, right? Black refers to people of African origin (for the most part), Hispanic to people of Latin-american origin (not including people of European origin who settled in Latin America and didn't mix, because there are quite a few), etc. etc. etc. Why shouldn't Jewish be a race, if you technically descend from the Hebrew peoples of Palestine? I don't know, it's all very confusing. But in any case I don't think it's a plus on a college app unless you're involved in the Jewish community, but that applies to every religion, I think.</p>
<p>ashernm said:
"the status of being a jew is either inherited or gained from conversion. Every rabbi I have had has said that once a jew always a jew, and that you can never become a nonjew. It does not have to do with ethnicity, just a different understanding of religion."</p>
<p>I really don't understand. You seem to be saying that a jew can not stop being a jew. Then you say that being a jew is based on religion and not ethnicity. What happens if a jew becomes an atheist? If being jewish is only a matter of religion, then I would think that they are no longer jewish. Not true if being jewish is an ethnicity. I have found this interesting but real confusing. I particularly don't understand why some Jews do not want being jewish to be a ethnicity in any way. From a logical view, I would say that a person converting to Judaism from Christianity would be a religious Jew but not an ethnic Jew, and a Jew who became an atheist would no longer be a religious Jew but would remain an ethnic Jew (provided they were before). I have no idea if this "logical" view is anti-semitic or not. I'm that confused.</p>
<p>the WAS is WASP is an ethnicity - white, anglo, saxon. how is that not an ethnicity?</p>
<p>lilybbloom, jews also have different backgrounds, and their homeland of israel is too far back, as they have been widely dispersed in the world since.</p>
<p>dufus, if a jew by birth or conversion (assuming it was a proper one) became an atheist, he is still considered a jew by judaism. He is still subject to the same punishments and commandments.
There is no specific ethnicity to jews. There are iranian, ethiopian, mexican, german, eastern european, portuguese, and asian jews. It's just handed down by birth.</p>
<p>in reference to antisemitism, the notion of jews as an ethnicity is not repulsive really. I just meant that antisemitic rhetoric usually revolves around the notion jews as an ethnicity, thus propagating this idea.</p>
<p>Lawrence Hinman, who wrote an ethics book and is a famous ethicist professor teaching at the University of San Diego, says the following in a powerpoint lecture:</p>
<p>Some Initial Distinctionsn</p>
<p>Race usually biological Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid and sometimes Australoid </p>
<p>Ethnicity refers primarily to social and cultural forms of identification and self-identification</p>
<p><a href="http://ethics.acusd.edu/Applied/race/%5B/url%5D">http://ethics.acusd.edu/Applied/race/</a></p>
<p>If you want a more ellaborate explanation, go to the link or search for it. I agree with him, I think, and thus, how is the designation "Jewish," while in most situations religious, not possibly part of culture or ethnicity?</p>
<p>There is no one jewish culture or country of origin. I'm tired of arguing.</p>
<p>Jewish can mean bagels and lox. It can mean hummus and babaganoush. It can mean latkes and kishka. It can also mean Basboosah and Bamieh. (Yes, we always define ourselves by our food) This is because *there is NO one culture or one ethnicity related to the Jewish people. * Judaism is dispersed around the world and even people who cannot identify with any of these groups can still become Jewish. Are they any less Jewish then? No! The one thing that unites these people and makes them Jewish is their religion, and their religion alone.</p>
<p>I'm an African-American Jewish student, and that isn't too common in this day and age. </p>
<p>I am thinking about writing my essays about how I learned more about myself and being a member of two cultures while being in Foster Care.</p>
<p>aviva_dawn, have you seen a recent French/Israeli movie called 'Va, vis et deviens' ?? I would recommend it if you get the chance.</p>
<p>I haven't seen that particular movie yet. I will check it out. Thanks for the suggestion.</p>