<p>I take that as a “no”.</p>
<p>Don’t talk about something that you do not know about. If you’re not an engineer or studying engineering than you don’t have a basis for deciding which programs are good or which are not.</p>
<p>…and if you guys are not engineers, then “wow…just wow.”</p>
<p>I was going to be an engineer. Judging from how well I did in the weed out CS class at Berkeley over the summer, I’m pretty sure I know enough to form an opinion. Btw, my LAC ranks about 15 place higher than yours.</p>
<p>“I was going to be an engineer. Judging from how well I did in the weed out CS class at Berkeley over the summer, I’m pretty sure I know enough to form an opinion. Btw, my LAC ranks about 15 place higher than yours.”</p>
<p>Oh wow. So you really don’t know anything about engineering then.</p>
<p>I’m going to drive this home and you are never going to talk outside your speciality again, okay?</p>
<p>How many hours, hell, days have you spent at a white board solving Laplace transforms or continuum mechanics problems? How many artificial intelligence algorithms have you created? How many finite element models, computational fluid dynamic models, or Matlab Lagrangian models have you implemented? What does Navier-Stokes or Maxwell Equations mean to you? Do you run to these when trying to solve flux problems or do you derive them yourself using continuity equations?</p>
<hr>
<p>Can you even tell me what engineers do? What relationship does engineering have with science? HELL- What makes a good engineer? </p>
<hr>
<p>You have NO basis to answer these questions. You know nothing about engineering by taking a computer science class at Berkeley. The only way you would ever know is to go through a full, rigorous program and even then many still do not understand what engineering is about.</p>
<p>So let me ask you: Why do you think (and your pathetic attempts at trying to quantify engineering rank) your points are more valid than my points? YOU HAVE NO F-ING CLUE WHAT DEGREE ENGINEERING IS EMBEDDED IN MY LIFE AND WORK SO DON’T EVEN TRY!</p>
<p>And BTW, if you actually knew anything about anything, you’d know that USWNR ranks mean very little. HMC is a “LAC”, sure.</p>
<p>And as a side note: I would just steam roll you and tell you what I work on and for whom I work but unfortunately that is classified and you’ll just have to imagine.</p>
<p>I like where this thread is going.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/album19/i_like_where_this_thread_is_going_again.jpg[/url]”>http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/album19/i_like_where_this_thread_is_going_again.jpg</a></p>
<p>rocketDA </p>
<p>No; I’m not an engineer. I have a CS degree from Cambridge and I’ve applied and was accepted to Duke, Penn, Columbia, Rice and Mudd - all for engineering. I don’t need to be one to be able to assess engineering schools in the same way that anyone doesn’t have to be an MBA to decide and assess which MBA program is better than the other. Your logic is laughable. lol</p>
<p>You can gloat all you want but at the end of the day, Berkeley is superior to Mudd for engineering. It doesn’t take a genius to know that to be true.</p>
<p>"rocketDA </p>
<p>No; I’m not an engineer. I have a CS degree from Cambridge and I’ve applied and was accepted to Duke, Penn, Columbia, Rice and Mudd - all for engineering. I don’t need to be one to be able to assess engineering schools in the same way that anyone doesn’t have to be an MBA to decide and assess which MBA program is better than the other. Your logic is laughable. lol</p>
<p>You can gloat all you want but at the end of the day, Berkeley is superior to Mudd for engineering. It doesn’t take a genius to know that to be true."</p>
<p>You are talking out of your specialty against someone in their specialty. I would trust a doctor knowing the best hospitals rather than some Joe Shmo off the street.</p>
<p>You logic isn’t even laughable. It is sad. Quite sad. Stop pushing your opinions regarding engineering programs before I start ruining your reputation on this forum (what’s left of it).</p>
<p>And just so you know- I don’t push my opinions regarding CS programs, since I know very little about them compared to someone in the specialty like yourself. </p>
<p>And yes: It takes an engineer to know a good engineer. The fact that you deny this is pathetic and shows your ignorance.</p>
<hr>
<p>SO FOLKS, THERE YOU HAVE IT- OF THE TWO PEOPLE CONFRONTED ON THIS FORUM REGARDING BERKELEY’S “SUPERIORITY” TO HARVEY MUDD OR CALTECH, NEITHER HAS AN ENGINEERING DEGREE OR IS EVEN ENROLLED AS AN ENGINEER… YET THEY CONTINUE TO ARGUE WITH SOMEONE WHO MAKES THEIR LIVING AS A YOUNG ENGINEER IN A SUPER HIGH-TECH FIRM. DOES A DOCTOR KNOW HOSPITALS BETTER THAN A BIOLOGIST? YOU BET!</p>
<hr>
<p>You two should just stop talking about engineering programs all together.</p>
<p>You guys seriously? There’s always going to be someone who has a different opinion than yours. Just forget about it. This is silly to argue about. Can we all be mature and just let this thread die please?</p>
<p>rocketDA, </p>
<p>You don’t need to be nasty and boorish. Most engineers that I know aren’t like that. Just accept the fact that when it comes to engineering, Berkeley is superior to Mudd. There is a general consensus amongst the intellectual elite that Berkeley’s engineering is only bettered by MIT. No other school can lay claim to be better for engineering, not even Stanford. Again, you don’t have to get my opinion about this. Just ask those engineers, faculty, deans, etc which school is better for engineering. I’m pretty sure Berkeley would smash Mudd to the ground. </p>
<p>Again, I personally think Mudd engineering is very good. I would not have applied there if I never believe that it is brilliant for engineering. But compared to Berkeley’s, it’s not even close. Peace out.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Who are you trying to impress? I’ve spent a few hours solving Laplace transforms/week last year. I rewrote fft butterfly for a class. What does it have to do with anything?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>When half of your family are engineers, you kind of pick a few things up. </p>
<p>
I got into a top tier engineering school. You didn’t. I go to a top tier LAC, you didn’t. I win. You lose. USWNR ranks mean very little for people whose alma matter mean very little. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>desperate? check
massively status conscious? check
insecure? check </p>
<p>Thanks for a good laugh. ;-).</p>
<p>Seriously, how old are we all on this forum?</p>
<p>^agreed. this is so stupid.</p>
<p>I hope this thread discourages people from applying to either Berkeley or Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>It’s either MIT or Stanford, or bust. </p>
<p>None of this state school and LAC insecurity and small-mindedness.</p>
<p>Prestige.</p>
<p>^ although this thread unfortunately may discourage students from applying to either, that doesn’t mean people should just go with the school with the most prestige. That’s a bit silly in my opinion, but to each his own.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t normally take a side in such a clash, but really this is getting ridiculous. RocketDA’s right on in telling certain folks to stop asserting things about a field they don’t know inside out. Tautologically, UC Berkeley is a huge school and more ground-breaking research happens here than at an undergraduate school, but many of those making this research happen may be HMC students. </p>
<p>This particular thread reflects much more poorly on Berkeley students than it does on HMC students. I hope it closes, and I hope Rocket’s made his point in peace. </p>
<p>It takes only a dummy to figure out that Berkeley is bigger and there’s so-to-speak more there. Tautologies are great to repeat, but one must keep in mind what they are. But it does take someone highly technically qualified in engineering to make claims about what needs to be done to train a student in engineering. Now intuition tells me strongly that this “what needs to be done” thing can be achieved at several schools in the U.S., but I imagine as far as gauging what 100% of the students majoring in engineering at a school have to go through, and how exceptional this is, one really must defer to someone knowledgeable. And engineering is certainly not CS.</p>
<p>If you all really want to debate about what aspects of the programs work in training engineers, why not actually bring up what you or acquaintances of yours did? Why guess at each others’ backgrounds? And why state your resumes…</p>
<p>If someone really wants to make a case for how well a program trains students (and if he/she must, in comparison to another), I don’t see a much more valid way than actually getting into the details of the program. Talk engineering education philosophy. This is stuff I’d actually like to read as someone who definitely doesn’t know much about engineering. Every thread I’ve seen on this subject has just stated the same things over and over, and gotten nowhere, and I do think what’s lacking is some real, actual content in relation to the field being discussed. </p>
<p>As far as math programs, for instance, I’d personally say the math major is just some assembly of courses at Berkeley, and what needs to be done to train a math student depends vastly on the student’s goals. One would really need to throw around technical language. What kinds of math are we talking about? What kinds of careers are we aiming for, and what’re the different preparation levels?</p>
<p>Rather than let this thread die, perhaps something productive can be said. I rest my case here.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I am very curious to know when the elite spoke so carefully and with interest about training engineers. From what I know, they speak mainly of research, if they say anything at all about instruction, that is. How to train an engineer, mathematician or physicist is a topic that experts have hugely, hugely different opinions on, I imagine. At the very least I can speak for my own field, and I’m sure engineers will agree that there isn’t a general consensus for their own field. And research at the level of someone who’s been trained for several years is a different subject, possibly entirely, from that of how someone should spend 4 years to get trained in the first place.</p>
<p>"When half of your family are engineers, you kind of pick a few things up. "</p>
<p>Half of my family are physicians but you don’t see me projecting my opinions about which med schools are best. That is isn’t my place.</p>
<p>STOP TALKING ABOUT STUFF YOU KNOW LITTLE ABOUT!</p>
<p>"I got into a top tier engineering school. You didn’t. I go to a top tier LAC, you didn’t. I win. You lose. USWNR ranks mean very little for people whose alma matter mean very little. "</p>
<p>These statements are ludicrous. I applied ED to HMC and withdrew all my applications in the works: MIT, Caltech, Stanford, UCB, USC. There is no telling where I would have gotten into. I thought that I would get the best undergraduate education at Mudd so when I was accepted ED I went.</p>
<p>Nice comment about “top-tier LAC”. Nice way to compare apples to oranges.</p>
<p>To dispel your comment regarding rankings not meaning much to those at the bottom: HMC has been ranked #1 or #2 in USWNR for schools with undergrad only in engineering for the last several years. I have always been one to say that this means little. Yeah, that adds to the “woo-factor”, but that ranking doesn’t define the program.</p>
<p>…and I find it sad that very recently a real-life Berkeley student has apologized to me on behalf of your (middsmith/RML) behavior and blind hype of a program you know little about. When UC Berkeley students apologize for an outsider’s behavior you know something is messed up.</p>
<p>At this point, I’m not even really arguing whether UCB’s program is better than Mudd/Caltech’s programs. My root argument is that you have no position to make this assessment as all you do is reiterate USWNR rankings and spew your ignorance everywhere.</p>
<p>TO ALL APPLYING TO BERKELEY: BERKELEY HAS A GREAT ENGINEERING PROGRAM AND THESE GUYS (middsmith/rml) AREN’T REPRESENTATIVE OF THE SCHOOL.</p>
<p>There, are you happy?</p>
<p>Mathboy98, I would like to thank you for your common sense and classiness. We really appreciate it.</p>
<p>Yes, it appears that people should listen to Mathboy98 a bit more on this forum!</p>
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