I agree it makes sense to visit the University of Chicago to see what you think of the neighborhood. To my kids, whose entire K-12 career was spent at schools in much, much more challenging neighborhoods, it looked gorgeous and elegant, and seeing it (along with seeing what was available by way of fun elsewhere in Chicago) was a huge plus. Yet I recognize that there are kids from suburban or rural areas for whom Hyde Park could be disconcerting. Most of them get over that in a few weeks if they come to the university – 18-year-old human beings have really good adaptive abilities – but there are some who don’t. As I have written a number of times, I have a cousin who grew up entirely in exurban college towns, in New Jersey and (mainly) Minnesota, and he never felt comfortable in four years at Chicago. I wouldn’t blame anyone for wanting to avoid feeling like he felt – but very, very few students at Chicago feel that way for long, even the coddled suburbanites.
We live in a suburb of Chicago and our college counselor has an excellent relationship with NW Admissions. ( we send 25 or so students there per year). She said that when she talked about admissions for an out of state relative they said " if he’s full pay we know we know he can afford to visit so he better visit if he wants serious consideration"
Say what? Since when is the part between the train tracks and the lake – often referred to as “downtown Hyde Park,” and home to some of its fancier restaurants and apartment buildings, as well as the Museum of Science and Industry, the 57th St. Beach, and the Point – not Hyde Park? Of the 8 person-years my kids spent as Chicago undergraduates, 6 were spent living east of the train tracks (one of those in what was then the single largest Chicago dorm), and they never thought for a minute they weren’t living in Hyde Park.
That’s more than a little misleading, too. Just west of Hyde Park is Washington Park, which unlike Hyde Park is a real, honest-to-God big, green park. The Washington Park neighborhood is on the other side of that. The park creates real physical and psychological separation between the university and the lower-income neighborhood. It’s not that it’s especially hard for anyone to walk across the half-mile or so of park (although – deliberately, I suspect – there are no straight-shot roads), much less hop on one of the three bus lines that cross it. But generally, they don’t, not in either direction, except for students taking the bus to the airport or to one of the El lines.
Another thing that’s sort of important to understand is that Washington Park and Woodlawn, too, are both pretty depopulated. So while their population-scaled crime statistics are bad, the absolute amount of crime is not quite so awful, because there aren’t nearly as many people there as in Hyde Park or Kenwood. I’m not saying those aren’t challenged neighborhoods – they absolutely are, and college students do not stroll around them much – but you get a lot more crime in neighborhoods that are vibrant enough to have more people living in them.
DS did an 2 day overnite visit to U of Chicago in mid Oct of his Sr yr and it ended up being one of his top choices, [ until he was given $0 in FA- those were the bad old days when they were very stingy with FA.]
I dont see why a late Sept or even early Oct visit is too late??? What is her reasoning?? Classes dont even start there until mid Sept. He does need to go to classes to get a good feeling for the college and the type of students it attracts and accepts.
BTW , the weather then is fine- nice and crisp.
Because it does have such a intellectual and quirky vibe, I strongly suggest your DS visit if at all possible.
Southwest fly’s directly into Midway airport, which is just about 30 min south of the university, and it is super easy to take a cab or Uber there from the airport]
there are some nonstops and flights that make 1 stop in Denver.
@JHS - That is East Hyde Park. Like Kenwood, it is a separate neighborhood.
No, it’s not. The City of Chicago is divided into 77 officially recognized “community areas.” All of Hyde Park, including what you’re calling East Hyde Park, is in the Hyde Park community area. I’ve never heard anyone who lived in Hyde Park west of the tracks say they were going out of the neighborhood when they went to East Hyde Park, or vice versa. The train tracks form a bit of a physical barrier, but not much of one. And the Chicago Police Department’s crime statistics for Hyde Park are for the entire Hyde Park community area, including the area east of the tracks.
Kenwood is a separate (official) community area, even though many people who live in south Kenwood say they live in Hyde Park, and some people who live in Hyde Park or Kenwood say they live in Hyde Park-Kenwood. Much of south Kenwood is in the Hyde Park-Kenwood Historic District, so designated primarily for its distinguished architecture. Demographically and in terms of crime statistics, Hyde Park and south Kenwood are pretty much indistinguishable, and in fact, many people will tell you Hyde Park extends from 47th St (officially in south Kenwood) down to 60th St.
According to the City of Chicago, the Hyde Park community area comprises 1.65 sq. mi. and has a population of 25,681 (2010 census), with a population density of 16,000/sq.mi. Kenwood comprises1.09 sq.mi. with a population of 17,841 and a population density of 16,000/sq. mi.
More true of Washington Park than of Woodlawn, I think. According to the 2010 census and City of Chicago statistics:
Woodlawn: area 2.07 sq. mil., population 25,938. population density 13,000/sq. mi.
Washington Park: area 1.48 sq.mi., population 11,717, population density 7,900/sq/mi.
So the population density of Woodlawn is about 20% less than Hyde Park, but it may appear even less dense because at one time Woodlawn was probably even more dense than Hyde Park/Kenwood, with lots of large-ish apartment buildings. Many of those are now vacant lots, but there are still a lot of people there. Washington Park, on the other hand, has only half the population density of Hyde Park/Kenwood Keep in mind, though, that Washington Park (the actual park) is officially part of the Washington Park community area, so if you excluded park land, population density would be somewhat higher. But this is also true of Woodlawn, which includes Jackson Park, a large lakefront park.
Also keep in mind that Washington Park (the actual park) might very well end up being the site of the Barack Obama presidential library, museum, and foundation. The University of Chicago was the winning bidder to host this development, which will be built either in Washington Park or in Jackson Park. My guess is U of C prefers the Washington Park site because a well-funded major tourist attraction there would further buffer the western end of Hyde Park from the Washington Park neighborhood—though these developments are still several years off. And they’re probably keeping their options open by proposing Jackson Park as an alternative site, in case community opposition to putting the development in Washington Park grows too great.
To go off-topic for a moment, I’m pretty sure the reason the UofC would rather place the library in Washington Park is that there’s a move to make the Washington Park neighborhood an extension of the campus/Hyde Park, what with the Arts Incubator, and (probably) the Obama library serving as the foothold.
Veering back onto the road, in @Zinhead’s defense, the city of Chicago does acknowledge East Hyde Park as separate from Hyde Park, though I feel the difference is rather irrelevant, especially to students at the UofC.
@bclintonk - Here is a link to an video and news report of a woman who was attacked while transiting from UChicago. The attack took place in July 2015 at 60th and MLK, which is a main vehicular transit route from UChicago to the Dan Ryan.
As for Hyde Park vs East Hyde Park, the City might lump them both in the same neighborhood, but the market sure does not. East Hyde Park tends to have many more high rises than Hyde Park, with newer buildings and higher rents. While Hyde Park mostly appeals to students, East Hyde Park has a much higher percentage of residents not affiliated with the university. Don’t take my word for it, but look at the following real estate related websites that list East Hyde Park as a separate submarket from Hyde Park.
https://www.walkscore.com/IL/Chicago/East_Hyde_Park
http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/East-Hyde-Park_Chicago_IL
http://www.zillow.com/east-hyde-park-chicago-il/apartments/
http://www.move.com/apartmentsforrent-search/neighborhood-east-hyde-park_chicago_il
http://chicago.everyblock.com/locations/neighborhoods/east-hyde-park/?start=08/10/2015
Some of the history and relations between the University of Chicago and nearby neighborhoods is described at:
http://uchicagogate.com/2014/06/02/a-wall-around-hyde-park/
A high level of segregation (both racial/ethnic and SES) may not be the desirable of environments to some students.
The public transportation subways can get to both MDW and ORD airports and both University of Chicago and Northwestern University.
Don’t know if anyone has posted this link, but here is a pretty comprehensive summary of the issue of safety for Hyde Park area: http://chicagowarrior.blogspot.com/2013/02/uchicago-safety-mythbusting-two-south.html Good info for me since we are moving my D there for grad school tomorrow. Her apartment is on 56th near intersection of S. Hyde Park Blvd…
To get back to the OP’s question on visits, if you can afford to go, go. Maybe see if there is another more “match” school of interest in the area at the same time. I don’t understand why September or early October would be too late, since even ED applications do not go in until December. Can he get an interview at either school (I have no idea if they do them or not). If you can’t visit, your high school may have a meeting with a local rep of each school which is a way to show interest. Also, going to a college fair or a local event and signing in could help.
As to Northeastern with a 3.5, not a shoe-in any more. My kid with a bit over a 3.5, a relatively rigorous schedule at a very competitive high school and very high SATs did not get in (he did get into BU and other good schools), Northeastern has been gaining popularity and naviance results from a couple of years ago may no longer reflect reality.
I am sure the OP’s kid will get into a good school. Good luck!
@bclintonk, you’re probably right about population density in Woodlawn. As for the eastern part of Washington Park, when you’re there it is obviously depopulated – boarded up or demolished buildings, few businesses, not that many people out and about.
I believe the University controls a good deal of the real estate in eastern Washington Park (the neighborhood) as well as northern Woodlawn. (Some years ago, I heard the then-Provost say, “Most universities are significantly constrained by land availability. We aren’t at all.”) If Chicago had won its bid to host the 2016 Olympics, Washington Park, the Midway, and Jackson Park were going to be completely revamped, with lots of development in the neighborhoods to the west and south of them. That would have been a tremendous windfall for the University in terms of attracting outside capital to improving its neighborhood. But it’s still clearly part of the long-term plan to induce more development on the edges of the campus, especially in Woodlawn.
The University used to have only a few significant buildings south of the Midway – the Law School and the Harris School, Chapin Hall, one undergraduate dorm, and some grad student housing – but in the last few years it has pretty much filled in (or committed to fill in) the block south of the Midway from the train tracks to Cottage Grove. That has meaningfully moved its center of gravity south and made its engagement with Woodlawn much more important.
Anyway, something that ought to be said because it’s directly relevant to this thread:
The University of Chicago offers ways to demonstrate interest besides visiting the campus. At least in the past, the Admissions Department has basically invited high school students to correspond with them via quirky postcards with interesting idea fragments. I am pretty certain that responding to some of those postcards constitutes “demonstrated interest” in Chicago. Visiting may be a good idea, but you don’t have to visit.
@ucbalumnus You can take public transportation from ORD or MDW to Northwestern but it will take a minimum of 90 minutes and even longer on weekends when the el runs less frequently.
When we visited the UofC there was no sign-in to acknowledge our attendance.
You don’t have to visit U of C. But you do Northwestern assuming your FA REQUESTS ( or lack of them) indicates you can afford to. And once you are in the area you might as well make the less than an hour ( unless traffic is terrible) trip to U of C.
The Obama Library will be built in Washington Park.
Yet the story you linked says, “Despite the announcement on Tuesday, officials from the Obama Foundation haven’t decided yet between the Washington Park site and the Jackson Park site to the east. During the next six months they said they’ll weigh the advantages and disadvantages of both.”
That is consistent with everything else I have read and heard: it will be either Washington Park or Jackson Park, but to my knowledge, that decision has not yet been made, or at any rate has not yet been publicly announced.
Oh maybe so. I thought it was Washington Park. My bad
“The public transportation subways can get to both MDW and ORD airports and both University of Chicago and Northwestern University.”
With all due respect, ucb, you’re just dutifully parroting websites with transportation maps without knowing what you are talking about.
Getting from ORD to either NU or U of Chicago is not easy. For NU, you’d actually have to take the el into the city and then back out again. It would be far better to take a taxi. I don’t know about the public transportation options to get to U of Chicago from ORD but have to believe they are quite lengthy - at least 1.5 hours.
Getting from MDW to U of Chicago is likely the easiest of the 4. Getting from MDW to Evanston is likely no picnic either.
You also say odd things about Chicago’s “segregation.” You’re not familiar with either Hyde Park / Kenwood or Evanston; leave that to the people on CC who ARE familiar with one or both.
Wow.
Oh, and FWIW, it’s shoo-in.