Is campus visit a MUST for U of Chicago and Northwestern?

Parents Forum
61

It’s certainly true that East Hyde Park has more new buildings and more high rises, and I have no reason to doubt that more people unaffiliated with the university live there simply because it’s somewhat less convenient to campus, so people who have no particular reason to be on campus on a daily basis will be more inclined to live there than people who do need to be on campus daily. Though there certainly are many university students, faculty, and staff living east of the tracks, too.

But if you’re implying that Hyde Park west of the tracks is a low-rent “student ghetto,” nothing could be further from the truth. Rents are fairly moderate by Chicago standards, certainly lower than downtown or in the more attractive North Side neighborhoods. But most of the Hyde Park area’s high end single-family housing—greystone rowhouses, townhouses, and detached single family homes–is in Hyde Park west of the tracks and in south Kenwood. And the rents don’t seem to be appreciably different east and west of the tracks, except that of course you’ll pay more in a high-rise with panoramic lake views. But that’s true everywhere in Chicago’s lakefront neighborhoods. While it’s certainly true that Hyde Park west of the tracks “appeals to students,” I don’t think it’s accurate to say that it “mostly” appeals to students. Very large numbers of U of C faculty and staff also live in the blocks within easy walking distance of the university–something the university itself has long encouraged. But there are also many doctors, lawyers, and other high-end professionals unaffiliated with the university who enjoy Hyde Park’s intellectual vibe, cultural offerings, bookstores, coffee shops, etc, along with its well maintained housing stock and distinguished architecture. Hyde Park is also a major center for theological study and education, with 4 seminaries–the Catholic Theological Union, the Chicago Theological Seminary (UCC/ecumenical), Lutheran School of Theology, and McCormick Theological Seminary (Presbyterian)—all located within a few blocks of each other, none of them officially affiliated with the university. Hyde Park and Kenwood have also long been a mecca for many of Chicago’s more affluent African-American families, among the few communities in the city or suburbs that are stably and comfortably integrated (as of the 2010 census Hyde Park was 46.7% white, 30.4% black, 12.4% Asian, 6.3% Hispanic, and 4.1% “other,” while Kenwood was 16.5% white and 71.9% black, though I imagine south Kenwood is somewhat whiter than the neighborhood average). That’s why people like the Obama’s chose to live there, affluent professional two-income households who could easily afford to live anywhere they wanted.

62

Midway to U of Chicago is DEFINITELY the easiest and fasted way to get there.

The airport is 7 miles directly west of the university.
Its a straight there on 59th street [not a scenic drive by any means, but it is the fastest route]

63

How about visiting in January - definitely demonstrates interest. And lets kids decide if they want to attend these schools in winter (which is 7 months of the year).

(i visited relatives in Feb in chicago in zero degrees, and glad not to be going back soon)

64

The apartment one then the other of my kids inhabited for four years – always with fellow-student roommates – was east of the tracks. While my daughter was proud that she lived “in a real building, with real people who have jobs, kids, and dogs,” she was far from the only undergraduate in her building, and the vast majority of the paychecks for the real people with jobs who lived there said “University of Chicago” on them. After the Ultimate Frisbee team/cult got kicked out of the apartment building it had effectively commandeered, the biggest group of the team moved into a building further up the block from her building. At the time, there were two undergraduate dorms east of the tracks – Broadview and Shoreland, which was the largest single dorm while it existed. And several of the lakeshore highrises market themselves to students who have a lot of cash (perhaps from their summers as investment banking interns). One of them could have been a Chicago Careers in Business theme dorm, and had its own campus shuttle for the many students who lived there.

65

I highly advise any student from a warm weather state to visit a cold weather school in the winter if at all possible.

66

“The public transportation subways can get to both MDW and ORD airports and both University of Chicago and Northwestern University.”

“Getting from MDW to U of Chicago is likely the easiest of the 4. Getting from MDW to Evanston is likely no picnic either.”

And also, it’s just a small thing, but there’s no subway from MDW to UChicago. It’s a bus.

67

Just to insert some hard numbers into the depopulation discussion:

According to the decennial census, Woodlawn’s population peaked in 1960 at 81,279, which translates to a density of 39,265 per square mile. Its current population (25,983) and population density (13,000/sq, mi.) are about 1/3 of the peak figures.

Washington Park’s population peaked a bit earlier, in 1950, at 56,856, with a density of 38,416 per square mile. Its current population (11,717) and population density (7,900/sq. mi.) are only about 1/5 their historic peaks. So yes, Washington Park has declined more drastically than Woodlawn, but they’ve both declined a lot.

On the other hand, many of Chicago’s lakefront neighborhoods lost population in the 1950s and 1960s as many residents opted for less dense single-family residential neighborhoods and an automobile-oriented lifestyle in the city’s “bungalow belt” on the Northwest and Southwest Sides, or in the suburbs. Hyde Park, for example, had a peak population of 55,206 (33,458/sq. mi.) in 1950, more than double its current population (25,681) and density (16,000/sq. mi.). Kenwood’s population peaked at 41,533 in 1960 (38,000/sq. mi.), also more than double the current figures. On the North Side, Lincoln Park had a peak population of 102,396 in 1950, substantially more than today’s figure of 64,116. Lakeview’s population declined 25% from 124,824 in 1950 to 94,368 today.

The declines in Woodlawn and Washington Park are much more drastic, however, and indicate not just a spreading out of the population, but actual abandonment of these neighborhoods.

Interestingly, the University of Chicago seems to see this as an opportunity. The university has long had incentive/assistance programs to help its faculty and staff buy housing in the neighborhoods surrounding the university. Currently the biggest cash incentives are for purchases in Woodlawn. Probably the university is not keen to have its students be the forward line of gentrification in Woodlawn, but apparently it doesn’t mind putting its faculty and staff out there.

68

“How about visiting in January - definitely demonstrates interest. And lets kids decide if they want to attend these schools in winter (which is 7 months of the year).”

Oh please. It’s no different from Boston / the northeast, yet no one recoils in horror at the idea of Harvard being in cold weather.

My Chicago-based son had much better winter weather than his Boston-based sister all four years. It’s silly to act as though Chicago’s some horrendous winter not equalled elsewhere.

69

I’d do a cost-benefit analysis, based on chances of getting in. I know three soon-to-be first-year students, all of whom were wait-listed by the University of Chicago this spring. At least two of the three had 4.0 GPAs. All had very good ECs. The one possibly without a 4.0 GPA is a young black man, who graduated from high school in one of the most segregated urban areas in the United States. He was a finalist in a national performing arts competition. All three had visited the University of Chicago, some more than once.

70

7 miles in a taxi or Uber car that doesnt have to make 20+ stops will only take 20 min.
I would NEVER recommend taking that bus the first time anyone was visiting U Chicago!
[ DS did end up riding it a couple of times to the MW]

71

A visit might be in order if your son is truly interested in NU and UChgo. They are very different schools (D liked one even though she thought it was too close to home and felt “constrained” by the other). But I, too, would do a cost-benefit analysis to make sure that a trip to Chicago makes sense from your family’s point of view. It depends on the reason for the trip—to demonstrate interest (which may or may not be worth the effort given your son’s stats) or to see how he feels about the schools. If he’s iffy about the schools in the first place, I’d go ahead and apply and if he gets in (and that may be a big “if” for both schools) then schedule a visit.

72

I have to differ with Pizzagirl on this a little–but only a little. Due to the warming effect of the Gulf Stream, average daily high and low temperatures are about 4 to 5 degrees warmer in Boston than in Chicago in December, January, and February. That may not sound like much, but it’s a pretty significant difference. There’s a lot of overlap, with winter temperatures in a pretty similar range, but on average, Boston gets a few less very cold winter days and a few more mild winter days. A bigger difference is that Boston has a much wetter climate, especially in winter, so that Boston gets, on average, both more snowfall (44 inches Boston, 37 inches Chicago) and, with winter temperatures more often hovering around the freezing point, more freezing rain. Boston is also more humid, and humid cold feels colder than dry cold at the same temperature; it gives you a chill that’s hard to shake. Let’s not kid ourselves, Chicago winters are no picnic, but for my money, having lived for extended periods in both places, Boston winters are on average worse, with damp chill, freezing rain, and more snow, more than enough to offset slightly higher thermometer readings.

Apart from the winter months, average daily high and low temperatures are almost identical in Boston and Chicago in the spring, summer, and fall, so whoever said winters last 7 months in Chicago had better be prepared to say the same about Boston (though of course it’s not true of either place).

If you go into the interior of the Northeast, away from the influence of the Gulf Stream, winter temperatures are significantly colder than Chicago. In Ithaca (Cornell), Williamstown (Williams) and Amherst (Amherst, Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Hampshire, UMass Amherst), wintertime daily highs are pretty similar to Chicago, but the average daily lows are 3-5 degrees colder than Chicago. And if you go a little north, to Middlebury, VT (Middlebury) or Hanover, NH (Dartmouth), both the highs and the lows are significantly colder than Chicago, with the average winter lows in both Middlebury and Hanover about 8-11 degrees colder than Chicago. Now that’s cold!

73

Meanwhile, let’s see - in the past 4 years when I had a kid in each location, it was my daughter in Boston who had school closed because there were several feet of snow on the ground. I was in New York when it closed down in Feb 2014 forcing me to take the one remaining Amtrak train back to Chicago because all the airports and highways were closed and remained so for a few days. I was in Philadelphia when it closed down due to a blizzard that left me stranded at the airport Marriott for 4 days straight waiting for the airport to re-open because I-95, Amtrak, etc. were all shut down. I think midwesterners sometimes like to pump up this mythology that Chicago weather is sooooo much worse than the northeast, and I think it’s nonsense.

74

Evanston weather though is pretty awful. That “Chicago” weather stat is from Ohare where it’s often warmer than at Northwesterns lake front location. And the wind whipping off the lake is brutal anytime the temp drops below 45.

75

It’s all relative. D has grown up in the Chicago area and the fact that the school she’s going to gets three times more snow than what she’s used to is no big deal to her. Her friend from Georgia is going to Northwestern; his parents are sure he’s going to freeze to death in Evanston.

76

There’s no bad weather, only bad clothes.

77

Of course. In part this just follows the expected pattern–Boston gets more snow than Chicago, on average. And in part it’s normal variability. Naturally there will be some years when Boston has much colder and/or snowier winters than Chicago, and vice versa. All I’m saying is that over the long run of recorded weather, Chicago winters on average have been a few degrees colder than Boston, but Boston winters on average have been about 20% snowier than Chicago–but also with a lot more cold and/or freezing rain in Boston, since total winter precipitation in Boston is on average 50% to 100% higher than Chicago, depending on the month.

The concern in New England would be that the last several severe winters represent the “new normal.” One theory is that warmer air and water temperatures in the Arctic due to global climate change are releasing energy in the form of winds that push the Jet Stream further south, dragging cold Arctic air masses behind it—and the Northeast gets clobbered. But of course a few years of colder- and snowier-than-average New England winters don’t give anyone enough data to say that’s definitively what’s happening. But stay tuned.

78

This quote is right on point. I grew up/lived in Chicago area for 30+ years. Winter weather (temp/snow) varied from year to year, even within any given year. I can recall winter temps with highs in 60/70s and lows at minus 80 with wind chill. I saw years of a lot of snow, some years with minimal, some years with at times both. I can only recall one year (1967) where school was actually shut down for one day. So I’d say hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst. If you get caught outside in extreme cold, you can be in trouble quickly.

79

Either your memory is especially impressionistic, or you ought to consider an appointment with a gerontologist. I couldn’t find hard data, but I am reasonably certain that the Chicago Public Schools average at least 1 snow day per year, not 1/30th. Even the University of Chicago – which prides itself on never having snow days, because so much of the faculty and administration (and of course students) lives within walking distance – has had to cancel classes at least a couple of times in the past decade.

80

There were numerous cold weather school closing days last year in Chicago.

"How Much Snow Does It Take To Close Schools?
January 30, 2014 10:45 AM
"The Chicago Public School system has only closed four times since 1999–two days that year after a post-New Year’s Day blizzard and two days after the blizzard of 2011. In those cases, there was more than 20 inches of snow on the ground.

CPS has closed four times this month for extreme cold weather, but not snow"

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/01/30/how-much-snow-does-it-take-to-close-schools/