@neela1 You have very strong opinions/conviction on many of these topics. Curious, are you a high school admissions counselor?
2 Likes
I am a parent who has taken a strong interest in these issues as they pertain to my kids, and have observed admissions of other kids surrounding my kids in their year and surrounding years, and discussed these issues at length with my kids, and my friends who have kids that went through this process. Most of my understanding is limited to T30 though ⊠Not an admissions counsellor.
3 Likes
Why would someone major in something they arenât interested in AND âhas little commercial valueâ? That makes zero sense.
And, letâs be clear, all majors from a top 20 college have commercial value. One just has to be intent on using alumni networks and career centers to hunt down internships and jobs. A religion or sociology major can be marketable if the student uses all of their resources. It takes more work to get those jobs when one isnât undergrad business or CS, but it can be done.
As for lying about oneâs interests on applications, thatâs just doing the student a disservice and I donât think âworking the systemâ like that helped students in the class of 2026. Proceed with caution if you think presenting a profile thatâs not honest will increase oneâs odds. How about just finding schools that really fit the studentâs needs and wants honestly and going from there?
10 Likes
Because realistically, the last thing Stanford wants is another computer science applicant, but it does permit students to change to that major once enrolled?. It is the largest major at Stanford. Many of those kids applied indicating another major.
1 Like
Agree that packaging is important ( This is sad but a result of how crazy and broken the system is). I also believe that some kids falls into a category where there are many others like them and that makes things crazy ( Asian boys from CA who want to study CS).
Nonetheless, I donât think it makes ANY sense to portray yourself as a classics major if you are destined for physics. I also think that kids need to recognize that having too many overachievements can now be seen as contrived/privileged and might work against you. The AOâs are in the drivers seat.
3 Likes
Yes I understand that but does the studentâs application indicate that he/she is interested in CS but then applies as a psychology major? If class choices and extracurricular look like CS is intended major and they swerve to another major not supported in their app, that canât be good.
Lots of colleges allow you to apply undecided and you just show that you have âinterestâ in a certain subject on the app. I donât have any experience with colleges where you have to apply directly to a major. From what Iâve learned on CC, I would proceed with caution doing that for most colleges because it would be difficult to switch to a popular major and still graduate in four years.
You cannot lie in your application because you wonât have the profile to backup the alternate major you might be tempted to lie about.
But if you happen to have interests outside of your main major, it would work to your advantage to indicate those.
Let me give you an example. The CS major at Princeton has registered a little over 200 declarations last year. They have 50-60 faculty in the department. It is one of the more underserved departments at the university. In contrast, the classics department has some 10-12 faculty. They usually graduate 7-10 kids a year. So if you are a credible applicant to the classics department (and everybody knows you can change your mind and move around), and by credible I mean you are fluent in Latin and at least passable in Greek, and if you tip classics as a strong interest, the odds of getting into Princeton are higher than if you indicated CS. The bar is higher if you are CS, because there are so many strong kids indicating CS. You are not lying. You are showing your academic breadth. Many successful STEM applicants show interests in one STEM and one humanities major. Now Princeton is not going to fire these profs in the classics department if enrollment drops to 4 or 2 in a particular year, because the university has enough money. But imagine a SLAC that is operating on a much tighter budget. Suppose enrollment drops to low levels year after year for some departments, then those departments will be under stress. History as a subject has seen gradual declines over the past two decades as an example. If you are applying to a SLAC, imagine what the benefits are if you indicated an interest in an overcrowded CS department, but also credibly show interest in a department with declining enrollment. You have some advantage.
5 Likes
Shhh. That is my strategy for DD25. Loves classics, is in a tough classics program - excels in Latin and is interested in history.
Will 100% take Latin in college if applying as a classics major.
But has no intention (for now) of going into academia or becoming a Latin teacher (though of course we would support that).
Now, she also would like to major in math and possibly engineering (at a SLAC) or 5-year.
Now, my spouse thinks itâs unethical to do this, because wouldnât take those classics courses in college if it wasnât a âbackdoor.â
5 Likes
I sort of cringe at the âpackagingâ idea. Students should be true to themselves and do stuff in high school that they are interested in.
Our D likes to write and is interested in politics and dance. Those are the activities she chose outside of school. She applied as a psych or political science major and those majors did match up with her ECs.
S19 is a well rounded student - equally strong in humanities and STEM. He truly was undecided upon his major. His activities outside of school didnât point to any particular major (XC/track, art, community service) but he did think he âshouldâ do something quantitative in college to boost his chances in the work force. Wasnât ready to commit to engineering so chose math as intended major when asked. (His colleges didnât admit directly into majors.) That major fit him because he had an 800 on SAT math and finished MV by the end of high school. He indeed ended up as a math and physics double major with a minor in religious studies. Heâs still the kid who likes STEM and humanities.
My point is this. One doesnât set kids up as a package. Hopefully, students are who they are and you roll with that on the apps. Both of our kids has successful application seasons because they chose schools that matched who they are and didnât try to shove themselves into some package to appeal to an AO. I bet AOâs can sense a disingenuous app.
5 Likes
ok. Sure. In that case, I say apply as a classics major. How many students do we know who are fluent in Latin and Greek. LOL!!! This advice does not apply to 99.999% of high school students.
3 Likes
It is unfortunate. This is the way the admissions system in this country has gone haywire. My son told me that he got upset that he has to now package all these things that he did out of interest anyway. Left a bad taste in his mouth.
Your authenticity comes through when people write recommendations about you as to how engaged you are about the activity. It is not just listing the ten items on your common app.
1 Like
This is an example. Incidentally, seemingly, a decent number of kids are fluent in Latin :-). If it is not Latin, it is something else. Maybe civil war history. Or Tokugawa history â my son met someone with this passion at a 7th grade summer camp. Anything that you are genuinely interested, and can talk for 3 hours. Imagine your GC writing a recc saying this kid can talk about insects for 3 hours non stop !!
My point is that âpackagingâ does happen but should come after reviewing oneâs high school experience. Look back and see who you are and what you are interested in. Then, yes, the apps should roll up to present a student who has a story.
But donât start the packaging at the beginning of high school!
1 Like
I sat down with my son in the summer between Junior and Senior year. Because I was expected to write a brag sheet about him to the schoolâs counselling department, to help them write about him. I had only a very fuzzy idea on what he did for 4 years. I debriefed him for 15 minutes. And then I wrote up a 6 page document. The counsellor was very happy for me doing her work. I told my son that all this material has to get on to his app in some shape or form. Kids are notoriously lazy. Think many of these things are unimportant. Left to them, their application will look like a minimalist painting :-). None of the school awards made it into the application because he said they were unimportant and the college doesnât care. We left them out.
1 Like
getting back to the topic of the thread - let me say this. This year was hard, yes. Last year was pretty bad too and the year before same. I think parents and students looking for some excuse that their kids didnât get into x school because the system is broken is just wasted energy. One has to do a lot of work these days to come up with a list that really makes sense. It is true that some schools that were safe for certain students no longer are. It takes time to get that right when making the list.
Also, Iâve pontificated about this on lots of threads but know your high school. What colleges are kids getting into and why. Do the Ivies only take athletes and/or legacies from your high school? Thatâs the case here. Know it up front. Does Vandy only take the high stat kids in ED and everyone in RD is WL? Thatâs what happens here. As much as AOs tend to say there arenât quotas, there is history to see and, especially with apps increasing, AOs likely donât have the bandwidth to change their âplanâ for the high schools they know.
I hear a lot of parents this year saying that Naviance predictions didnât âworkâ this time. I wonder how much those parents really dug into those cases to really understand the numbers. If more kids applied and AOs are only looking to take x number of kids from the high school, then yes there are going to be more red Xs on the graph this year. Kids on the bubble for a âsafetyâ on those graphs should be assuming that school is no longer a gimme and they should make sure to find others where their student is going to get in.
And all of the comments on these college-specific threads about how parents âdonât understand these decisions - in at Northwestern but not BC? how could that be?â Stats and ECs arenât everything. Geographical diversity is. So is an app that REALLY shows fit. NU and BC and not the same. Parents and kids maybe need to work harder these days to find schools/programs that really fit and they might see better outcomes.
15 Likes
I donât think LACs have run into this problem of departmental resource allocation (with a few possible exceptions like HMC or Swarthmore). Many LAC applicants are genuinely undecided and theyâre more likely to lean naturally toward liberal arts majors when they have to declare their majors. On the other hand, many private research universities, if they freely allow students to declare any major, do have this issue, as CS and engineering become increasingly popular. They will try to infer applicantsâ intentions, not necessarily based on what is the stated on the applications.
The popularity of CS major is currently the biggest issue by far. With collegesâ universal inability to hire more faculty in CS, some of them are contemplating barriers of entry to declare CS majors, as theyâve never done before.
5 Likes
Is this thread trending to stray away from the stated topic, perhaps?
Upon further reflection, I am not sure whether this is an âoutlierâ year per se but it has also shown some of the more extreme and rather unexpected outcomes that further deviate from the recent experiences at T50 and more so at T20 (with Ivy Day yet to come). It is rough. Clearly, a lot more applications and more random outcomes. Not clear how the next year applicants will react to these facts but I assume that they will based on the theory of rational expectations. And, who knows how any applicant is impacted as a result of what has transpired? I know many do not appreciate (the well-intended statement): âeverything will work out in the endâ ⊠even though it probably will, at least as we all hope so for them.
5 Likes
Well, I think some students freak out when they see these difficult application seasons and blanket apply to a couple of dozen top-ranked schools - many of which are very different from each other. Itâs been said before but applying to all Ivies is silly. They each offer something different. Last I checked, Dartmouth was really different from Princeton which is really different than Cornell. And applying to a lot of schools requires a lot of writing which gets worse and worse as one has to write 50 essays senior year while juggling high school classwork.
And opening a whole bunch of portals on one day with denials is a bit much for an 18 year oldâs psyche.
I get it that students work hard and think they âdeserveâ to go to a certain type of school but the odds are stacked against all students at this point and I still think the best strategy is to really hone in on the reaches and matches that fit the student and then find true safeties. And then try super hard to find things about those safeties to get excited about.
6 Likes
Agree that itâs rough out there for CS. I guess that means those students need to start researching so they can find schools that are likely to take them as CS majors. From around here, Iâm betting kids can get into Iowa State for CS. Or Loyola. One doesnât have to go to Stanford.
5 Likes
Agreed. I have honestly thought about what I would say if we had one more kid who was about to apply. Not sure what the right guidance is anymore.
Here is what I think, though: if the next yearâs applicant is 1000% sure of the fit and has the presumed requisite profile for a said school, then I would absolutely recommend to make use of ED (and/or ED2) and forget about the optionality EA/RD rounds provide ⊠but only if the kid is 1000% sure and we all know how that they think they are until they are not. LOL â and there is the HUGE issue of FA, of course.
I am also not sure however, what would happen if most applied that way. Colleges would have to be more selective in ED/ED2 and then we are back to square one, arenât we?
3 Likes