<p>Like I said…the “destructive” added to the competitive is more likely a result of one or two incidents being used to generalize about the whole program. I bet the rep at Duke came from one or two sabotage incidents which then were used to generalize to the whole premed experience…</p>
<p>interestingly, there are these same discussions about competitive environments amongst fine art and performing art programs…not just engineering and sciences. My son definitely did not like the vibe at RISD or at SAIC because when he visited the students spoke either with arrogance or put down classmates’ work or they said how terrible the crits were for them(very negative) while CMU has had the reputation of tough crits (reviews by classmates and profs) but never destructive. Time spent in the school studios during his visits was a great way to sense the general tone but, again, it was a momentary snapshot and definitely leads to generalizing based on a brief experience. However, his observations were generally strengthened by talking to grads or current students visiting back home. RISD and SAIC are similar in that students do take some liberal arts but “success” depends almost entirely on the first semester or two of foundation art classes. At RISD you apply with a major in mind, your ability to continue and get into the specialization you want is determined by your performance the first semester alone…you can imagine that students see crits as a way of winnowing out the competition…and that is precisely what happens. SAIC is pass/fail but you have to convince professors to want you for your second year SAIC has only a 70% retention rate to second year and less than 50% to graduation. If you drop out…one year and 45,000 down the tubes. </p>
<p>My S is a very kind, gentle soul so he would be uncomfortable in an environment that encourages strongly negative commentary on a classmates’ work. He is stimulated competitively at CMU…the competition to do outstanding work is there–profs give few A’s, select few pieces for display or shows, crits, etc. but the tone at CMU CFA fits his personality better. I know people fabulously happy at both RISD and SAIC and they would probably hate CMU. Different kind of competition elicits very different responses in the students. What is nirvana for one, is hell for another and yet both are “competitive”, both are hellishly hard work, both produce good artists. I think we waste time with the generalizations but should recognize that certain students may not do well emotionally in one or the other environments and that certain programs may have characteristics that lead to a different style of competition.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the info. I am really starting to have second thoughts about CMU. I am being recruited for sports, have a 30 ACT, 2040 SAT. My parents want me to get into the best school possible, and this one is it, other than Tulane so far. I wouldn’t be able to play my varsity sport there. I am going to get a business degree.
I feel I can handle the work, but I am not a very intense person, like to have fun and socialize, do not really thrive on extra work. I also am not a big fan of cold and crappy weather. It seems like people either love or hate CMU. I want to have a balanced, good college experience.
CMU is my best sports option so far, but the school just doesn’t excite me like a good match, other than getting a strong degree and having good placement chances. However, the placements seem to be in the NE, which I do not strive to reside in.
Do kids end up thriving were they are planted, even if initially they do not think it is a good fit? I need to figure this out quickly.</p>
<p>The business school at CMU is considered work-heavy by business school standards. You’ll still have plenty more free time and thirsty Thursdays than your engineering and fine arts counterparts at most schools, though.</p>
<p>You should visit both schools, perhaps more than once if you are thinking about sports since the coach and team environment would be as important as anything else. Still, Tepper vs Tulane… as a parent I would say go where you will be happy but…Tepper vs Tulane…oh my!..if you can get into Tepper why would you look elsewhere ?(this from an Econ PhD). I know it isn’t just about rankings/placements but Tepper is very special as a business school. I am very anti business degree in general because the programs at the undergrad level tend to be full of silly requirements and mediocre courses taught by business people and not by professors. Being successful at business doesn’t immediately qualify you to teach " business" whatever that is. Too often students leave without a good fundamental education and also without the specialized skills for business management. It’s like a “communications” major–what exactly are you prepared to do with that degree? Tepper and wharton are the rare exceptions and Tepper in mho produces more consistently well rounded and excellent graduates. They are my favorite interns…intelligent, curious, great programmers, analysts, and can extract magic from the Bloomberg terminal. Honestly, try CMU again and buy a sun lamp before you head to New Orleans…don’t let one bad visit turn you off…</p>
<p>Kicker</p>
<p>Keep in mind, there’s a real chance you will not being playing sports for ever or even 4 years. That takes a great deal of time regardless of whether you attend CMU or Tulane. Being a student athlete is exhausing!</p>
<p>As fineartsmom said- it’s really hard to imagine how you could turn down one of the top 5 undergrad business schools and to attend a school so much further down the rankings. If you end up not enjoying business, you have many highly ranked programs here as well.</p>
<p>Regarding post grad placement-- check out the list of companies recruiting here- and post grad placement results–these are everywhere and a huge number on the west coast. Not sure where you got the impression it’s NE.</p>
<p>If CMU seems too much work/stress - it’s good that you can feel honest with yourself about what you want out of college and you should consider other mid range schools in business. What about schools in sunny warm Florida if weather is on your mind?</p>
<p>Your parents have good points-- but I’m sure they understand this has to be your decision and a good fit.</p>
<p>If you are able to make a second visit, you should spend more time with Business majors who may also play the same sport you do.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you.</p>
<p>If you are worried about being able to manage being an athlete and a Tepper student, I have two or three people I could put you in touch with - all are sophomore athlete/Tepper students and all seem to be extremely satisfied with their situation.</p>
<p>What sport do you play? If it’s Tennis, even better.</p>
<p>OP, If you got an acceptance ED from Tulane with $20k/year,
</p>
<p>You should take their offer. Opportunity cost is in favor of Tulane.</p>
<p>I will say that our S had a good time at CMU, a lot of academic and career building stuff. Now that’s he’s working, he’s making up for lost time in the athletics and developing interesting hobbies.</p>
<p>Thanks again.
A few things- I have applied HSS as advised to help my chances of admission. This was before my latest improved test scores listed in my original post. I am concerned about being able to transfer into Tepper. As of now, I would do Econ in HSS. It appears that it is difficult to transfer between colleges at CMU also. So, that really leaves Econ, Tepper, MIS in HSS and maybe statistical decision making or something like that. If it would not be too difficult to get over to Tepper, that would help.</p>
<p>Re placement, I have the Post Graduate Survey reports for Tepper and HSS Econ grads. It does show the majority of positions in the NE. Is there a broader list for these graduates? And does the Carnegie Mellon degree carry a lot of weight nationwide?</p>
<p>My sport is soccer. My visit was an official visit, in which I got my perspective from team members. It was said by one that, if not for soccer, they would not recommend CMU.</p>
<p>Longprime, yes, that is another issue. I will get the $20k scholarship at Tulane. At CMU, I will get FA, but I am not confident in the final result, in that my dad has his own small business, and we are not sure what they will try to add back into income. His business is slow due to the economy, but could pick up again, leaving future years in question. If we ended up getting at least $20k in FA from CMU, that would still work financially. Money, while a factor, is not a deal breaker, as long as we are not on the hook for maore than about $30-35k. Our early estimator shows about $24k in grants for ED. But, the $20k guaranteed from Tulane is attractive.</p>
<p>I am not understanding this.</p>
<p>Are you admitted to Tulane on ED? or RD?
Are you applying to CMU on RD? or ED? or EA?</p>
<p>CMU is vg. It does a lot of weight nationwide because the students are well prepared. </p>
<p>As for soccer, the coach must be very good or that the student must not be good enough in soccer to get into another school but got in by academics. ?</p>
<p>Longprime, it is ED for CMU, Tulane it is early action non-binding. They are known for getting acceptances and merit-based awards out very early.</p>
<p>What does vg mean?</p>
<p>On the soccer comment, it was basically from a social, quality of life standpoint as far as soccer being the thing that makes CMU bearable with the comradery, etc.</p>
<p>CMU strives to match FA offers elsewhere so your Tulane offer helps you at CMU as well as Tulane. It doesn’t always work out, of course, and it takes forever to get an offer, but you have a pretty good chance.</p>
<p>“Do kids end up thriving were they are planted, even if initially they do not think it is a good fit? I need to figure this out quickly.” Is there another school that does feel like a good fit? If not, you will have to take a chance. There are no guarantees. </p>
<p>My daughter had some of the same reservations: “I am not a very intense person, like to have fun and socialize, do not really thrive on extra work. I also am not a big fan of cold and crappy weather. . . . the school just doesn’t excite me like a good match . . . .” She comes from the Bay Area, land of group hugs and crunchy granola, where a cold day is about 52 degrees, and competitiveness is generally considered a weakness. Would it help to know that she loves CMU? She says the people are interesting and she is rarely bored. She quickly made friends within her program, says competitiveness is almost nonexistent, and the parties are great. She doesn’t even mind the work much because she is interested in what she is doing.</p>
<p>As everyone else says, try visiting again, and spend the night.</p>
<p>Kicker-- if you have to describe CMU as “bearable”, you answered your own question, you probably aren’t a fit for CMU and would not enjoy your time here. </p>
<p>Good luck at Tulane.</p>
<p>mom2012, with the “bearable” comment I am just restating what I was told. I did see things that I liked at CMU, I am just conflicted by the mixed messages. </p>
<p>I sat in on a couple classes at CMU, and really enjoyed them. The professors were excellent, and I know the program is top notch. The campus and surrounding area were great and there was a good college atmosphere feel on Forbes Av. Pittsburgh looks like a great city.</p>
<p>I do have other potential options, including JHU and Emory, in case this doesn’t work out. I don’t want to pass up this great opportunity.</p>
<p>Thanks again to all for your input.</p>
<p>CMU’s financial aid for ED will be based on your need based on FAFSA. You will get probably unsubsidized Stafford, PLUS, and maybe a small grant. vs Tulane an outright merit grant, that is probably with a minimum GPA (you need to find out) and probably extendable to a 5th year masters. </p>
<p>Are you getting the same conflicting messages at Tulane?
You should be getting conflicting messages there too. If you’re not, there something wrong with either the question or the answerer. Nothing’s perfect.</p>
<p>Anecdotally, DS doubled majored. had a job with an award winning professor (soph-senior at 10hr/wk), did club work (10hrs/wk average), and had a good time. He now works at a ranked CS school. I asked him that it seems that he’s not spending so much time at his work/university than at CMU and grad schools-he says that the culture is a bit different and that the students aren’t asked to don’t work as hard. :/</p>
<p>Have you seen the Last Lecture?</p>
<p>My nephew went to Tulane, (Katrina year to MBA).</p>
<p>Since CMU is ED, CMU will make the decision for you. You made the choice at application. Be prepared to accept either consequence.</p>
<p>My early estimator showed a pretty sizeable grant about $24k. My sister goes to Tulane, so it is pretty much a known quality. I am aware of the minimum GPA required at Tulane, which wouldn’t be a problem.
I have not seen the Last Lecture.
You are right, CMU will decide for me. I have a pretty strong feeling that I will get accepted with coaches support, but you never know, so this is a timely matter for me to figure out before the decision.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t let one student’s opinion of a school influence how you feel about the place. I had a few friends at CMU that weren’t really happy, but that was generally due to them not wanting to have to do work most days of the week, and not being able to party every night. CMU is a fairly different school with a strong tech and self-motivated learner vibe, and, realistically, not everyone will fit in.</p>
<p>Current CMU '12 student (international relations & creative writing double major) here, just popping by to say it’s stressful, but we can have fun.</p>
<p>Check out this original webseries created and produced by students at Carnegie Mellon!
Zombie College Musical: http:/■■■■■■/zcmep1</p>