<p>^ That’s kind of my point. Going to college SHOULD be about becoming employed, since that will be the next step in the student’s life, and it lasts for 30 years or so. Moreover, one does not need to attend college to acquire an educated mind. Many people in vocational trades have educated minds – and actual incomes!</p>
<p>And I would suggest that many kids don’t want vocational training because our culture doesn’t value that and fills them up with platitudes about the “college experience.” It’s great, if they graduate, but half of them don’t. High school students should be told this.</p>
<p>You can become educated without college. Plenty of great magazines and internet resources. Sure you might not learn enough to hold a discussion about black holes with a person who has a Ph.D in astrophysics, but the majority of people don’t have one anyway so it doesn’t really matter.</p>
<p>This is what’s happening now. Back in the early 1900’s, a high school diploma was needed for a well-paying job. In the late 1900’s, a college degree was needed for a well-paying job. We’re now starting to move into the phase where a post-graduate degree is needed for a well-paying job. The rising cost of higher education (particularly the cost of professional schools) along with the fact that only half of students graduate college within six years are going to create a problem in the future.</p>
<p>Okay people seem to be missing that not everyone is QUALIFIED or able to successfully draw everything out of college that you are basically claiming EVERY student gets. If a kid can barely make it through an inner-city high school want makes you expect that they’re going to survive in college, much the less thrive?</p>
<p>Besides becoming educated at college, the experience itself is a growth experience. Much is learned besides intellectual knowledge. For old timers on CC, you might recall a member named jamimom who once said that college is iike a half way house for teens/young adults. Actually, she may have called it a Disney half way house!</p>
<p>^^^ True. But with college, you are exposed to many possibilities. You also become educated. You grow personally. Having a degree generally opens more doors to careers than without a degree. </p>
<p>Yes, if you don’t go to college, you could become employed. If you don’t go to college, you can grow personally. If you don’t go to college, you won’t be exposed to a wealth of fields and possibilities as easily. But with college, all these things are a part of it and can’t be replicated in SUM without college.</p>
<p>See, the above argument would work, assuming that that was what the person is interested in (which implies that they need to be willing to invest something into their college experience and are consciously seeking this opportunity to be exposed to a world of new disciplines). Not everyone is looking for that enlightenment. And not everyone is able to go into debt up to $200k for a path that might not have aligning with their goals in the first place. Some people just want to be able to make a decent living so that they can support their families. College isn’t the only place where people should be able to get diversification in their education and exposure to different thoughts and ideas and you can’t possibly justify that it’s the right path for everyone. Or do we need college to make up for the 12 years that were wasted in elementary, middle and high school?</p>
<p>I never said college was the right path for everyone. It isn’t. One should only attend college if they want to and it fits their goals and aspirations. There are other paths in life. For some, those paths are a better fit.</p>
<p>How many times have we heard the line that a liberal arts education gives you the ability to think critically, therefore you are more flexible in the job market? Is it better to send kids off to a technical school to learn a specialized trade that may be obsolete in 10 years, or would you rather have that kid learn how to think, speak, write logically, learn math and science and a foreign language in a global job market? Where I live, many apprentice programs are taking on kids with degrees because they find the best workers are able to think on their feet. Maybe if we retooled the high school education so that it prepared the average person to be successful in the job market, then college would once again be for the intellectuals. I don’t see America going back to a manufactuing economy, so we need the next generation to be able to use their collective knowledge to come up with creative solutions.</p>
<p>If you are really smart you don’t need to go to college/grad school, more so now and in the future than in the past because of Google. Many didn’t go or dropped out in the past, e.g., Microsoft, Apple, Dell, Google, Facebook, etc.</p>
<p>For the rest of us not that smart, we go to learn a trade.</p>
<p>Certain fields and certain jobs are only open to those with college degrees. If you don’t have a college degree, you are limited to certain fields or jobs. If those fields or jobs are fine for you, then all is good. But particular fields or jobs will be closed off without a degree as is required to attain them.</p>
<p>The problem is not the US tertiary education system but the US primary and secondary education systems. US children spend at least 10 years in these two systems doing what exactly? Some seem to be learning while many just seem to move along a conveyor belt.</p>
<p>At the primary and secondary level is where children and adolescents should be taught the basics and fundamentals our society requires of people to function properly. Instead, it seems primary and secondary education are no more than “college admissions preparation.” The last 2 years of secondary education may be used to offer students a menu of options where they can explore possible paths towards professional and personal growth.</p>
<p>Professional careers, such as Law and Medicine, should be “detached” from academia (e.g. one should not have to go through 4 years of undergrad and debt to study Law). Vocational careers should receive more societal support (e.g. not categorized as “low class” professions). Finally, academia should be once again treated as what is supposed to be: a place where academicians and scholars can develop new ideas and theories without the risk of harming society (e.g. intellectuals in their ivory towers believing their untested ideas will uplift society).</p>
<p>Blah blah blah, college does not and never had a monopoly on learning. Enough of the “an education never goes to waste”. Tell that to the millions of kids who waste thousands of dollars on a never-finished education. </p>
<p>If these people had any knowledge whatsoever of economics or reality they’d understand that it’s not possible (or desirable) for everyone to pay through the nose for a college degree.</p>
<p>Nevermind the fact that the world needs practical people with real problem-solving skillsets, not another liberal arts lawyer.</p>
<p>The issue is that many college students aren’t learning any of that. Let’s face it: many of them aren’t really motivated to learn anything at all, and are attending college only because that’s what their parents and peers expected them to do, without ever knowing why. Heck, I remember at my college, there were plenty of students who barely ever bothered to go to class, but would instead spend all their time playing video games, watching movies, or drinking and hooking up. College then becomes a 4-year party and social club, subsidized by the parents (and in the case of state schools, the taxpayers). Many schools are far more famous for their partying atmosphere and college sports than for academics. </p>
<p>Be honest - how much critical thinking and skillbuilding is the typical college student at those schools really developing? Certainly I can agree that some students are indeed doing just that. But what about the rest? What exactly are they doing, and why should society subsidize it?</p>
<p>Depends on your value system. I value education for itself, even if the student never seeks employment. For example, many people are stay at home parents and do not work outside the home for pay. Their lives are enhanced by the education they have received. </p>
<p>By the way, practical skills can be learned at college too. Not all course work is liberal arts. Also problem solving is something learned in college too. </p>
<p>Everyone in my family…myself, my husband and my kids ages 21 and 23, all well educated, are working in the fields we studied in college.</p>