<p>"But when one looks at just what "going on to college" means nowadays and what it will mean a couple of years from now we might do well to restrain our applause."</p>
<p>If the student wants an above-minimum wage job, no.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with the idea that “everyone needs to be sent off to college”. America was always a nation of opportunity, and I support the goal of making a college education available to everyone. If a person truly wants to go, then they should be able to pursue that path. </p>
<p>On the other hand, there are many students who go due to peer pressure/parent influence/whatever, but have no need to. They’re not motivated to go to college, and many careers don’t require a degree. I don’t like the prevailing notion that college is essential to success in any field, because it’s not true. These kids are the ones who don’t graduate and are hurt in the long run because of it. </p>
<p>In the future, I think we’ll see the rise in prominence of technical schools. People go, do what they love, learn what they need to, and live good lives. If you don’t want a liberal arts education, you shouldn’t be forced or pressured into getting one. If you do want one, then the opportunity is there.</p>
<p>Read the article, please.</p>
<p>And yes, I think college is overrated for the vast majority of people who go there. College should be for future academics, scientists, engineers, technical majors, and so on. Not for average student with average generic major at an average school. There’s tech schools and other options for him.</p>
<p>I agree, and my dad says this all the time, college is a waste of time for most people who go.</p>
<p>This is a thought provoking article…thanks…one of several I have seen lately on the same idea.</p>
<p>Our country is currently suffering from “education inflation.” Since so many students (many who are not qualified) are pursuing a bachelor’s, the BA really does not mean what it used to. And many students could do better, in terms of jobs, doing vocational training of some sort. If our culture returned to the idea that college is “learning for learning’s sake,” and only for those whose intellectual qualifications, motivation and interest are sufficient for this, college would again mean something. At the same time, other paths should receive equal regard by educators and the newspapers alike.</p>
<p>De facto tracking people into college and non-college paths is viewed as elitist and un-American. We are the land of “opportunity,” and opportunity is increasingly defined as college education for all. European countries are different in this. The college preparation in some of those countries is extremely rigorous, as are the culminating examinations. Some expect to go to college, others don’t. Apparently, though, countries like France or Italy are more likely to move in the direction of equal opportunity, than the US is likely to return to exclusivity.</p>
<p>Our president touts college for everyone, and says that with hard work, everyone can succeed. Community colleges have posters on the wall saying “Failure is not an option.” (You don’t see those posters at Harvard). Kids, from a young age, hear that college is the only path to success. It amounts to brainwashing.</p>
<p>I am hoping the pendulum swings back a little.</p>
<p>But it is a dicey thing to make sure that a talented inner city kid, who has worked hard and has amazing academic potential, gets to the college he or she deserves, and at the same time try to steer less academically gifted kids to vocational programs. Some who would blossom after 18, will be missed.</p>
<p>Establishing who goes to college and who doesn’t shouldn’t depend on talent either. Some gifted kids would rather work with their hands, or do something practical, if only someone would show them the way.</p>
<p>Teachers, parents, guidance counselors, politicians, educators and the media could start giving equal respect to a variety of paths, starting at an early age for students. This would make a big difference.</p>
<p>Employers need to really think about whether a BA is needed for the jobs they are offering. Having a BA is now like having a high school diploma 20 years ago. Do you really need a BA for many of the jobs that list that degree as a requirement? (When the recession is truly over, this may change of necessity.)</p>
<p>If the current situation continues, degree inflation will mean that students and families will need to go broke paying for MA’s and PhD’s to get ahead, and adulthood will be delayed into the thirties!</p>
<p>I don’t believe this. I mean, our international financial system was ruined by people who benefited from the best education America can offer. They made mistakes. And now you people actually want to take a step BACK? True, a college education is not necessary for everyone (after all, the world needs blue collar workers), but that does not mean that
; nor does it mean that
.</p>
<p>What’s the problem with everyone getting a BA? There’s going to be demand for jobs anyway. Wouldn’t you prefer seeing people with degrees seeking these jobs, rather than high school grads? Let the people who can (and can afford) getting advanced degrees (MBA, Phd etc) get them; life will eventually balance it out and compensate.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>While college obviously isn’t the only path to success, your chances and opportunities to succeed increase dramatically with a college degree. College is the most surefire way to financial prosperity.</p>
<p>Great post, by the way. It was more thought provoking than the news article! :)</p>
<p>I think education inflation is actually quite a big problem. I mean if everyone does have a bachelor’s degree, then the people who have master’s degrees will get the better paying jobs, and then if everyone has a master’s, the PhD will get the jobs. In the 50s if you had a college degree you were set for life, you could always find a job, now a college degree is like a high school diploma, it is pretty much expected.</p>
<p>I work in the trades and know tons of young people who went into the trades shortly after high school. Most of them make good money pretty quickly and have good future career prospects. However, from what I’ve seen, many of these young people feel they’ve missed out on something and resent their college bound peers. They’re not really ready to work 5 days a week, or more, and don’t have much long term motivation. Often they have some other sideline dream or talent they’d rather pursue. A post high school experience, be it college or travel or volunteering would have been helpful to many of these kids. I think most young people between say 18 and 23 are not really ready for a career and I’d rather see them explore the possibilities rather than short change themselves. Rather than not go to college, it would be better if colleges changed and began to offer more diverse opportunities other than paper writing and boring labs. There’s a huge market out there for innovative programs and colleges that tap into that market may do very well.</p>
<p>Education is what you make of it. It’s about nature and nurture. And you can develop in all of the following areas:</p>
<p>Word Smart
Linguistic (ability to express oneself in words on paper and aloud and to conceptualize ideas and thoughts verbally). Major form of intelligence used in school, on IQ test; essence of what people normally think of as smart.</p>
<p>Picture Smart
Spatial (art, architecture, engineering, graphic design, photography, etc.)</p>
<p>Music Smart
Musical (composing, playing musical instruments, singing, retaining melodies, pitch, etc.)</p>
<p>Body Smart
Kinesthetic (athletic ability, physical strength, endurance, coordination)</p>
<p>Logic Smart
Logic/Mathematics (reasoning, math, science, computers, technology)</p>
<p>People Smart
Interpersonal (people skills; dealing with others/relationships; working in teams, etc.)</p>
<p>Self Smart
Intrapersonal (self-knowledge – search for enlightenment, inner peace, meditation, spirituality, personal growth, etc.)</p>
<p>to answer the OP’s question, I’d say very much so</p>
<p>I’ve got two coworkers who both are college graduates. One of them graduated with honors in Sociology I believe. And yet now he works at a friggin’ supermarket as a cashier.</p>
<p>Now I can expect the typical response to this will be “oh well he should have majored in something useful”… to which my response is “but I thought college is supposed to make you employable?”. I mean yeah, I can understand not being able to get a job if you did really poorly in school, but if you graduate with honors from a four-year school you should be able to find SOMETHING. If college is supposed to be a place to expand your knowledge, then less jobs should require degrees. If it’s essentially an expensive job training center, then they shouldn’t offer things that aren’t sure to land you a job.</p>
<p>My coworker would have been much better off going to trade school or joining the military. But I’m sure his family would have had none of that… that’s for the peons…</p>
<p>For many students, college is a waste of time and a waste of money. According to what I believe is Census data, 30% of college and university students drop out after the first year, and half never graduate. These students typically run up enormous debt in one, two or three years of college, and never have anything to show for it. </p>
<p>[Dropouts</a> Loom Large for Schools - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/dropouts-loom-large-for-schools.html]Dropouts”>http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-colleges/2009/08/19/dropouts-loom-large-for-schools.html)</p>
<p>Whenever I hear a leader like President Obama blather on about “college for all,” I just cringe because I know it means a few hundred thousand more people borrowing money for a year or two before dropping out. I worked for a time at a Tier 3 state university, and was regularly appalled by the number of unprepared students who came through, amassed huge debt, and failed all or nearly all of their courses before dropping out. It was apparent from the day they stepped on campus that they would never, ever successfully matriculate. </p>
<p>It’s sad – tragic even – that we have culturally abandoned technical and vocational education in our public schools in favor of the ubiquitous “college prep” curriculum, typically with a lower “track” for underperformers. They graduate high school with no academic preparation – and no vocational preparation either. We have also, culturally, moved toward an implicit demeaning of vocational work – plumber, electrician, car mechanic, etc. – even though such trades provide good incomes and lifestyles. Few teachers tell their students to look at the local community college’s program in heating, ventilation, and air conditioning repair, but instead routinely encourage unprepared students to pursue bachelor degree-level study for which they are horribly unprepared. Two years down the road, they are $25,000 in debt, have dropped out, and are working in a fast food restaurant, when they could have been completing a course of vocational study that would provide a lifetime of income and security. It’s good that the President’s plan calls for increased community college enrollments, but I hope it comes with a cultural shift in which we re-learn to give the respect to vocational workers that they deserve, so these fields will be attractive to students again.</p>
<p>So, yes, for many students, college is overrated. Part of high school should be inculcating students with the very certain fact that the rest of their lives will be filled with work – generating income – and paying bills, and that there are satisfying ways to do that that do not include a 4-year college degree, and that not all 4-year college degrees will guarantee a livable income.</p>
<p>
I’ll disregard the article’s main point that such degrees are completely unnecessary for many of the jobs that BA’s proceed to obtain post-college. Secondary: The problem associated with this is already mentioned in the article as well: a large percentage of them don’t make it to the finish line. Not only is it a (huge) waste of money & time, many don’t end up paying it off, either.</p>
<p>Did you read the entire article, Lobzz? Based on the information given it stated that more jobs in the future will require less BAs and more specialized training.</p>
<p>I think that our education system (pre-college) could do a better job of sorting people (think UK-ish system) – teaching them a blend of things that they should know (which is relative…) and what they need to know (allowing them to specializing BEFORE they get to college). Ideally the system would be a bit more flexible and forgiving, but after giving people a broad range of topics in their education they would be able to hone in on subjects of interest that translate into realistic professions for them. Ugh, the problem is our country is losing a huge amount of diversity in education… but that’s another argument all together… </p>
<p>What I’m basically saying here is that people need to realize that one path doesn’t work for everyone; but we can’t just look at that principle in terms of college, we should be seeing how we could apply it to people’s base education BEFORE they’re sitting there as a senior getting pressured into paying 50k a year for a piece of crap school. We should also be presenting people with more options (that won’t make them feel like failures – our society (blah uppermiddle class) makes technical schools and community colleges sound like pieces of crap when they’re not) so that they don’t think that college is their only choice.</p>
<p>[8</a> Reasons College Tuition Is the Next Bubble to Burst | Naked Law by Avvo.com](<a href=“http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/2010/06/8-reasons-college-tuition-is-the-next-bubble-to-burst/]8”>http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/2010/06/8-reasons-college-tuition-is-the-next-bubble-to-burst/)
I’ll bring this link back up from the grave since it’s relevant.</p>
<p>“our society (blah uppermiddle class) makes technical schools and community colleges sound like pieces of crap when they’re not”</p>
<p>very true</p>
<p>An electrician with his own business can make a hell of a lot more money than a lot of college grads.</p>
<p>Going to college is not only about becoming employable. An educated mind never goes to waste.</p>
<p>Reading this thread you’d think there were no learning opps out there for kids that don’t go to college. My local CC, also a college, offers tons of vocational ed training for a very low price. Colleges are offering diversified post high school training. BUT MOST KIDS DON’T WANT IT! Kids are interested in learning and also in career prep. They’re pretty smart. 30 years of cutting pipe might sound good to us old fogeys but kids know the score. It’s years of hard work and physical labor. Take from me, I’ve been doing it for 30 years. God bless em for following a dream, even if it doesn’t work out.</p>
<p>soozievt, I absolutely agree…an educated person who completes a college program learns so many things. As an employer (before coming to the education field), a college degree demonstrated excellent personal qualities (determination, focus) that I valued.
As a first generation college student - back in the 70’s, it was typical to hear…“…well, you probably should be a secretary” as postsecondary advice. I’d hate to go back to that time where only certain types of students were encouraged to go to college. I think President Obama understands this.</p>
<p>Also, many young people have no idea what they would like to do “when they grow up.” It would be terrible to take them off the “college track” before they even have a chance to mature and make this decision. College electives/courses can give them exposure to their options. I wish technical/career electives were still available in high school…but with all the budget cuts and citizens unwilling to pay for “technical” programs in schools…it’s tough to give students these opportunities. Even the ROP courses have been dramatically cut back!</p>