<p>IvyLol, I provided MIT and CalTech data too.</p>
<p>it says: “popular”. so, naturally, they will measure only what the shcools produced. no-brainer. and the fact remains that columbia grads aren’t earning as much as HYPSM grads are.</p>
<p>Something to notice.</p>
<p>Dartmouth: Individuals Reporting: 598</p>
<p>Columbia: Individuals Reporting: 3,176</p>
<p>Not only is the data incomplete, but the proportions are distorted too. Thus throwing the entire “median/beginning/mid-career salaries” argument completely out the window.</p>
<p>RML, what was your original source of data for your conclusion that Columbia grads aren’t earning as much as HYPSM grads? I’d like to see your data and how complete (or incomplete) it is.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Show me RML. Prove to me, and have you finished doing the math yet? Or tell us about your Cambridge experience which I suspect is a lie.</p>
<p>how much stanford grads make in NY - New York $63,218 - $142,431 </p>
<p>how much columbia grads make in NY - New York $53,724 - $118,414 </p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>IvyLol, chill out. It doesn’t even matter whether his Cambridge experience is a lie or not. At this point, I just want to see the data that he is using to base his bold conclusions on.</p>
<p>RML, where is your data coming from? I want to see how complete it is. PayScale’s data relies entirely on self-reporting FYI so it’s inherently unreliable.</p>
<p>Stanford: Individuals Reporting: 2,180</p>
<p>If you haven’t noticed already, the numbers of people who have reported their stats are tiny in comparison to the actual numbers of people that have graduated over even a small 5 year interval.</p>
<p>And this is going to be my last post, because there is no more arguing with this RML whom I can’t even trust and who avoids topics he knows he can’t answer.</p>
<p>And we got all the datas from the universities themselves, so let people make up their minds.</p>
<p>IvyLol, the problem with the data from PayScale is that it relies entirely on self-reporting. Look at the “Individuals Reporting: xxxx” and notice how small it is compared to the actual numbers of people that have graduated over even a small 5 year interval.</p>
<p>I’ve asked you several times already RML. Please show me the dataset you used to come to these salary conclusions. I’d like to look at them myself.</p>
<p>
oh, so now we’ll just resort to ad hominem. hahaha… how about telling you this: your columbia experience is a lie. lol it doesn’t sound healthy in this debate, is it? that’s why let’s not talk about our personal lives. </p>
<p>Stanford is superior to Columbia. having been ranked above Stanford once in a ranking game that has been in existence for more than an era does not make it a better school. too tired typing now. let’s continue next time. so far, you haven’t proven that Columbia is superior to Stanford in terms of academic reputation and school prestige.</p>
<p>I’ve asked you several times already RML. Please show me the dataset you used to come to these salary conclusions. I’d like to look at them myself. I’m not saying that you’re wrong, only that I’d like to verify how complete the data is that you’re basing your conclusions on.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>never said payscale is accurate. but its all we’ve got. unless you can show data that say otherwise.</p>
<p>again,</p>
<p>how much stanford grads make in NY - New York $63,218 - $142,431 </p>
<p>how much columbia grads make in NY - New York $53,724 - $118,414 </p>
<p>huge difference!</p>
<p>^ Again. Because of the career differences. Do you understand what that is?</p>
<p>lol</p>
<p>so you’re suggesting that columbia grads in NY work as clerks or book keepers and the like whilst stanford grads work as investment bankers or management consultants or hedge fund managers or the like. if so, is that stanford’s misfortune that they ended up as bankers and finance analysts, etc, etc, whilst those columbia grads are just book keepers or waiters or taxi drivers, etc, etc…??</p>
<p>Stanford: 1778 undergrad degrees conferred in 2008-2009 (based on official Stanford statistical abstracts provided in my previous posts)</p>
<p>Columbia:1039+392+269 (1700) undergrad degrees conferred in 2008-2009 (based on official Columbia statistical abstracts provided in my previous posts)</p>
<p>According to payscale:
Stanford: Individuals Reporting: 2,180
Columbia: Individuals Reporting: 3,176</p>
<p>Assuming people stay in their careers for 20 years, we can just use a 20-year interval as a basis for comparison. We can estimate that Stanford has graduated at most 35560 undergrads in the last 20 years and Columbia has graduated at most 34000 undergrads.</p>
<p>That would mean that about 6% of previous Stanford undergrads and 9% of previous Columbia undergrads (from the last 20 years) have reported their stats.</p>
<p>I am not saying that the career choices of these students vary so greatly that it accounts for the salary variation (although a moderate amount of career choice variation might be expected). </p>
<p>RML, I’m not saying that your conclusion is necessarily wrong. My point is that the data you’re using is roughly 6-9% complete, and you’re using it to draw a conclusion that you’re treating as reliable and substantiated. We can’t rely on data that is 6-9% complete to draw such a bold conclusion.</p>
<p>In the big picture, these are both phenomenal schools and I would be thrilled to attend either of them for medical school. Whether undergraduates from these schools make more or less than each other is irrelevant to me so long as I reach my passion of becoming a trauma surgeon (with further specialty).</p>
<p>^^ Well assuming Columbia grads are more diverse in there career choice?</p>
<p>nothingto… It’s not that I’m taking sides, but you can’t really make the assumption that Columbia grads are more diverse in their career choice anymore than RML can make the assumption that the PayScale data (which is 6-9% complete in this specific comparison) substantiates the claims that Stanford undergrads make more than Columbia undergrads on average.</p>
<p>My point is only that we have so little data to work with that any conclusions we draw are mostly full of hot air. The only conclusion I can draw is that the data we have to work with is not complete enough to draw any real conclusions.</p>
<p>Stanford:
Area and ethnic studies (CIP 5) 2.59
Biosciences (CIP 26) 6.81
Communications/journalism (CIP 9) 2.46
Computer and information sciences (CIP 11) 3.66
Engineering (CIP 14) 13.67
Engineering technologies (CIP 15) 2.87
English (CIP 23) 4.27
Foreign languages and literatures (CIP 16) 2.7
Iinterdisciplinary studies (CIP 30) 16.57
Liberal arts/general studies (CIP 24) 0.45
Mathematics (CIP 27) 4.11
Philosophy, religion, theology (CIP 38) 1.57
Physical sciences (CIP 40) 4.27
Psychology (CIP 42) 4.11
Public Administration (CIP 44) 1.12
Social sciences (CIP 45) 22.89
Visual and performing arts (CIP 50) 2.76
History (CIP 54) 3.32
Other
Total 100</p>
<p>Columbia:</p>
<p>Institute for Research in African American Studies <em>2
American Studies 14
Anthropology 27
Mathematics *1
Archaeology *3
Architecture (Barnard) 23
Art History & Archaeology 22
Art History & Archaeology-Visual Arts (School of The Arts *0
Asian American Studies *3
Astronomy *1
Astronomy-Physics *</em> <em>0
Biological Sciences-Chemistry *</em> <em>0
Biological Sciences 41
Biological Sciences-Physics *</em> <em>0
Chemistry-Physics *</em> <em>0
Chemistry *4
Classics *6
Center for the Study of Ethnicity and Race *4
Center for Comparative Literature and Society 13
Computer Science *6
Writing: Undergraduate (School Of The Arts) 15
Dance (Barnard) *0
Drama And Theatre Arts *2
Earth and Environmental Sciences *1
East Asian Languages & Cultures 21
Economics 108
Economics-Mathematics *</em> <em>0
Economics-Industrial Engineering & Operations Research *</em> <em>0
Economics-Philosophy *</em> <em>0
Economics-Political Science *</em> <em>0
Economics-Statistics *
Engineering Majors 381
- *0
English & Comparative Literature 87
Ecology, Evolution, and Environmental Biology *9
Chemistry *1
Earth and Environmental Sciences *8
Ecology, Evolution, and Environmental Biology *2
Film (School Of The Arts) 15
French & Romance Philology *8
French & Romance Philology *6
Germanic Languages *6
Spanish & Portuguese 22
Columbia College *1
Art History & Archaeology *0
History 117
Art History & Archaeology *3
Italian *0
Italian *2
Latino Studies *2
Columbia College *2
Mathematics 20
Mathematics-Statistics *</em> <em>0
Middle East and Asian Languages and Cultures 14
Music *8
Columbia College *1
Biological Sciences-Psychology *</em> *0
Philosophy 24
Physics *8
Political Science 115
Psychology 55
Associated Institutes *1
Religion *7
Slavic Languages *1
Slavic Languages *2
Slavic Languages *1
Sociology 17
Spanish & Portuguese *0
Statistics *4
Urban Studies 17
Visual Arts (School of The Arts) *9
Women’s and Gender Studies *2</p>
<p>I dunno, what this is.</p>
<p>nothingto, please stop spamming data that has already been shown in previous posts. In order to determine whether Stanford or Columbia has a more diverse student body (in terms of majors), we would have to all come to a mutual conclusion as to what defines “diversity” in our little mental experiment. For the record, I am reporting yours as a problem post (for the mods to remove) for the reason that it is a lot of data that I’ve already provided to everyone, and you’re spamming it. Please delete your most recent post.</p>
<p>^ The reason why i re-posted this, was because it was relevant to career path diversity. Relevant to also salaries.</p>
<p>Spamming and re-posting relevant information is different.</p>
<p>It is repetitive. IvyLol already posted it. Please delete your post.</p>
<p>Without a mutual agreement on metrics we can use to define greater diversity versus lesser diversity, we cannot come to any substantiated conclusions about whether Columbia students are more diverse in career choice or not. Likewise, with only 6-9% of the undergrads over the last 20 years reporting in, the only conclusion we can come to is that “Of the 6-9% of undergrads over the last 20 years that chose to report their data, Stanford grads make more than Columbia grads on average, across the very limited spectrum of careers that have been reported.”</p>
<p>It would be blatantly misleading to interpret or restate this as a definitive statement that “Stanford grads make more than Columbia grads”.</p>