<p>Brown experienced a 4% increase in yield. Penn's yield rose 1%. Chicago is predicting an increase of 5%, and Princeton had a 3% increase in its yield rate. The only schools that experienced marginal declines were Dartmouth (1%) and Yale (3%). Stanford's yield doesn't look like its going to be falling any time soon, Harvard actually experienced a 2% increase, and Cornell has yet to reveal its data.
These rises have to be coming at the expense of some schools. Is one of those schools going to be Duke? Because, if that is so, it is a very disconcerting thought (specially with the increase in the number of students admitted ED). Of course, I'm probably jumping the gun. However, if I'm right, I believe that an administrative reshuffling is in order. Duke's admissions office can't afford to become complacent (specially since it does not have the ivy brand name to fall back on). Serious questions need to be raised if the school does not experience a respectable increase in the yield rate. That's just my opinion as someone who is a prospective applicant (and multiple legacy) with a deep and abiding affinity for the university.</p>
<p>Could be. Duke is in that mix. I know three kids that turned down Duke and accepted Brown and UPenn and I believe Cornell.</p>
<p>It will be interesting to see other comments but I think you’re jumping the gun. As someone who just went through the process of supporting a son who applied to a bunch of highly selective schools, whose classmates also applied to many of the same schools, Duke has a reputation right now which is among the very best, just a notch behind the HYPS crowd. I’m not qualified to say how big that notch is, but it’s really not that big I’d guess. Duke is a very attractive school on a number of levels: outstanding graduate and professional schools while still focusing on undergraduates, beautiful campus and facilities, great placement, great school school spirit, and an advantageous location (in many important ways). Good luck to you in your application process.</p>
<p>kaukauna, I know that! Which is why I’m so surprised (and slightly dismayed) by the lower than expected yield. I know having one of the best public schools in the country in the vicinity plays a big role, but I’d still like to see Duke hitting 50-55% on a regular basis (specially in light of the fact that it appears to be so highly regarded).
All I’m trying to say is that if the yield is indeed lower than expected (for the second year in a row), there need to be drastic administrative and policy changes to ensure that the university does not lose the competitive edge it has built up over the years. I hope I’m jumping the gun (and I very well could be), but I feel that this is a conversation that needs to be had in order for the issues that Duke is being plagued with (if indeed there are any) to be rectified.</p>
<p>Curvyteen: You’re a HS junior?</p>
<p>Yeah, but I have deep family ties to Duke (my mum went there, as did both my brothers).</p>
<p>A casualty because of their yield numbers? Oh, pleeeeeeze!</p>
<p>My concern is obviously premature at the moment (I already acknowledged that), however, if Duke’s numbers do remain stagnant, the students would be doing their university a grave disservice by not asking the appropriate questions (IMHO).</p>
<p>Curveyteen: I understand your point. I’m an old guy and I’m amazed that you are worried about this. Your feelings are indeed intense. Good luck to you. I admire your passion. If I were Duke, I’d make you and EED (Early-Early Decision) admit based on interest alone!</p>
<p>kaukauna, I grew up being regaled by stories of how Duke was the best place in the world. I really want to make sure that it stays that way! If I’m admitted, I’m definitely going to make my voice heard by writing for the chronicle and attempting to get elected to student government. I’ve always heard that Duke is not a place that rests on its laurels, and I don’t want that mindset to ever change :)</p>
<p>curvyteen stated, “…but I feel that this is a conversation that needs to be had in order for the issues that Duke is being plagued with (if indeed there are any) to be rectified.”</p>
<p>I think you need to cut down on the pretentious prose and eliminate the “talk radio syndrome” of pretending a crisis exists.</p>
<p>Duke is plagued with issues that may or may not exist. And I am plagued with air that I may or may not breathe. </p>
<p>I would encourage you to join a DukEngage service project and spend less time navel-gazing.</p>
<p>I’ll just say that as a Duke grad, I have never mentioned that I went to Duke and gotten the response “Oh, well that’s not exactly Brown/Penn/Cornell is it?” Duke is held in high esteem by virtually everyone I’ve met.</p>
<p>I would argue that Duke is actually held in higher esteem than some of those schools (I’m looking at you Cornell). That is why I find it surprising that the statistics are telling a different story. Anyway, I think we may be beating a dead horse at this point. Let’s wait for the numbers to come out before we vilify Dean Guttentag.</p>
<p>I really don’t like seeing such threads – to me they smell of insecurity, and that is not at all something I’d like to see associated with Duke. As others have said, Duke has a fine reputation, and that is unlikely to change. </p>
<p>I do think there are some things Duke could do better, however, and I think the accusation that admissions has become complacent is not without some merit. In particular:</p>
<p>[ul][li]Focus on boosting financial aid. Duke has extremely good financial aid, but it’s nevertheless being outpaced by some of its slightly wealthier and/or smaller peers.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Revamp the admissions office. Duke admissions seems to receive more complaints on these boards than admissions officers at pretty much any other university, and perceived arrogance is a popular complaint. That needs to be fixed ASAP. </p>[/li]
<p>[li]Do a better job of recruiting students. Duke seems to have one of the most apathetic mailing campaigns right now. From what you see at WUStL and now Chicago, bombarding students works. I don’t want to kill trees, but at the same time you simply can’t assume that everyone is already familiar with Duke. </p>[/li]
<p>[li]Do a better job of marketing. Colleges do well these days if they are able to capitalize on distinctive features. Brown emphasizes unlimited pass/fail grading and an open curriculum. Chicago all but implies it monopolizes the Life of the Mind market. Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, and the like will be perpetually popular if for no other reason that they are in large, interesting cities. For many, Duke is associated primarily with basketball – which, while a fun feature of campus life, is merely one of many things that Duke offers. Additionally, the gradual gentrification of Durham has gone largely unnoticed by prospectives. Duke has MANY excellent qualities (all freshmen on east campus, FOCUS and other freshman seminars and writing courses, strong emphasis on undergrad research, very high percentage studying abroad, unique resources like the Primate Center and Marine Lab, an extremely large and strong public policy institute, DukeEngage, a highly underrated dance/theatre/film scene, cross-enrollment with UNC, etc.), and I think very few of them are communicated effectively to prospective students. </p>[/li]
<p>[li]Continue to recruit top-notch faculty, especially in engineering. Faculty strength/research was and to an extent still continues to be something of a weak point relative to research powerhouses like Stanford or Columbia. Duke has recruited lots of very good scholars, and its much improved standing in the new NRC rankings reflects that. Additionally, faculty strength needs to be emphasized more – people know pre-med when they think Duke, but how many know that Duke has top 3 programs in fields like classics and religion? </p>[/li]
<p>[li]Reduce reliance on ED. 50% is entirely too large a percentage of the freshman class, and I would much rather the yield take a hit than be unfair to students who are forced by finances to apply RD. If Duke is worried about yield, perhaps instead it could do something like gradually shrink the size of the college, which might prove a win/win (i.e. smaller classes).[/ul]</p>[/li]
<p>That said, will I be at all bothered if Duke does none of the above and keeps trucking along? Nope!</p>
<p>I agree that Duke lacks a mailing campaign. My daughter will be attending Duke this fall and applied to many top schools. Every one of those sent her mailings prior to application time, but not a single one from Duke until after she submitted her application.</p>
<p>Leaving aside the obvious issues here, which is why Penn’s popularity would somehow injure a continuing to improve Duke (good for Penn!), I think the math here is all wrong. There are only a fixed number of openings at the top 15 or so schools. The fifteen or so schools also generate a finite number of acceptances. As the number of acceptances goes down, the yields must also go up. In close up terms, a student who might have previously picked between Yale, Harvard and Princeton who is rejected by Harvard, cannot “reduce” the yield of the school that rejected him or her. As a global matter, less acceptances are chasing the same number of spots. So, I think the entire premise of the post, that rising yields at Penn are at Duke’s expense is wrong. Perhaps a math genius will tell me I am wrong, but I think I am right. </p>
<p>More generally, I am a big fan of virtually all the top schools and so really, don’t worry about it.</p>
<p>Do we even know Duke’s numbers? It may just be that as these schools are getting more and more selective the number of cross-admits is decreasing and thus yields are going up across the board.</p>
<p>Duke admitted close to an extra 100 kids in ED (almost a 100% yield). So I don’t see it dropping compared to last year.</p>
<p>It would be interesting to see the number of cross admits that each school has with HYPSM. I have a theory that Duke has more cross admits with the super elites than some of its peers. Unfortunately, I don’t think such information is publicly available.</p>
<p>There are around 30,000 freshmen spots in the top 20 colleges and 17 million high school seniors. If you take the top 3% that is still over 500,000. That means only 6% of what is considered the elite high school students get into a top 20 school. I don’t care who selected Duke, I’m just glad Duke selected me.</p>