<p>This is a little OT from the current debate, but did anyone catch Discover's lead story ("Testing Darwin: Scientists at Michigan State Prove Evolution Works") in February 2005 edition? The article revolves around this software program (Avida - I think) that has digital organism that breed (and therefore evolve (?)) faster than bacteria. </p>
<p>Supposedly you can download the software yourself at dllab.caltech.edu/avida . I wanted to know what you guys thought of this ... I found it interesting, but biology and evolution aren't my best subjects. I'm a little questionable about it b/c it is a computer program and has it's own rules that don't necessarily apply to life outside the technological world. (but like I said ... I know very little)</p>
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tsk tsk tsk... I still can't believe this debate is still happening.... didn't the Scopes trial take care of such things oh well. I think that there will always be people who think that the Earth was created in 7 says and the bible is meant to be taken literally. In which case ... hooray, now I can own slaves and whip women... </p>
<p>obviously the last point was sarcastis. I am still amazed at the backwardness of some people
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<p>I still can't believe there are 16-year-olds who think they're uniquely enlightened and have discovered what thousands of years of philisophical discourse could not.</p>
<p>I agree, and I'm glad to hear it if you're not one of them. From reading this thread and talking to people in the world at large, it seems to be that way too many kids consider themselves uniquely enlightened to the point of excluding other possibility. Many cannot even fathom any other point of view.</p>
<p>"In which case ... hooray, now I can own slaves and whip women..."</p>
<p>...Quick question.</p>
<p>Are you going to Brown?</p>
<p>If so, I think that it would be wise to not talk about the Christian religion there, as even 4th grade Sunday School students know the concept of the Old and New Covenants. The 10 Christian Ivy Leaguers will tear you apart.</p>
<p>"I just don't believe that bible can be taken literally"</p>
<p>What do you mean, "the Bible?" I'd think a book that includes history, inventory, law, short stories, fables, songs, poems, wise sayings, plays, prophecy, visions, parables, and letters would require more than a simple literal/figurative classification.</p>
<p>do you think that it's hard to be a Christian at brown?</p>
<p>i've been told in the world, yes, it's hard. and that's probably what i've expected. but nowadays, the norm seems to be: we tolerate everyone EXCEPT Christians because they do not tolerate some things (ex. gay marriage). </p>
<p>however, i am not adamant against evolution. it has its strengths... and weaknesses. just like creationism: it has its strengths and weaknesses. however, i choose creationism based on my faith. yes, i accept evolution as a valid theory. nevertheless, the idea of chance i must replace with the idea of a creator. no one ever said, however, that God did not create creatures and then let them change over time. the world is always changing. but i don't think that we came from apes (or whatever creature supposed). FIND TRUTH :)</p>
<p>On the topic of this thread: I think you can still be a Christian or religious person and believe in evolution; in fact, Pope John Paul II supports the theory. Christians believe that God created the earth and all of its inhabiting creatures, right? So, why can't it be possible that those organisms eventually became human beings? I mean, it still supports the Christian idea that God created us - since he is the creator of the original organisms.</p>
<p>Before I even realized it, this post's message had its message in smile05's 3 minute earlier post - dang.</p>
<p>Thank you, Mediterranean! I'm sorry you all picked out things in my previous post to attack! I thought I was admitting, and had bolded the fact that we just don't know what is going on. None of us can know anything for sure; all we are actually capable of is believing in what we feel is right for each of us individually. I guess I had to spell this out. And, I guess, also, I wasn't specific enough, in that whether God, or whatever higher power you believe in, directed the develoopment of this world, solar system, universe (not to mention evolution) or not, the fact remains that species change over time based on the random chance of the pairing of dominant and recessive alleles in concert with the environmental difficulties/conditions experienced by populations. (I wasn't trying to push my beliefs or opinions on anyone else~ I very much agree with John Stuart Mill's On Liberty.) We at least know, or think we know, that much. I did not say that I am a naturalist in any sense! I don't believe the world is spiritless and that we're all just machines existing solely to pass our DNA on to the next generation! Man...!</p>
<p>I believe the original question on this forum was "Is evolution true?" As far as we know, and it doesn't matter if it was created/directed by intelligent design or not, it is. We have actually seen it in microevolution! </p>
<p>But I actually like most of the Old Testament. Have you guys heard that some people (I don't remember who) were running the original Hebrew script (like the first four books of the Old Testament) through a computer program, converting the symbols to numbers and looking for codes? I'm still trying to find out if this is true, but supposedly they found Shakespeare, Hamlet, and MacBeth?, and something about web highway? I don't know, could be hoax... I really don't know the specs on it. Just curious if anyone else had heard anything like this... very interesting, tho, if it's true.</p>
<p>JeNeSaisQuoi: are you referring to the Bible code? I think it's very interesting too, although, I'm not very much into prophecy ... </p>
<p>In the Herbrew University in Isreal, they convert the hebrew letter/symbol into a number and when they have a word add those numbers up to get a number that represents something (this is where 666-the beast comes from) Spaces and punctuation marks are omitted. Then a computer looks for matches to selected names or words by stopping to every xth letter. One can go forward or backward, up or down, or even through pages.</p>
<p>This isn't really that new though, Jewish rabbis and kabbalists (not exactly those people who run around with red strings) have been translating the Torah through numbers and symbols for quite some time (without the help the computer too!). Did you ever see the movie Pi? There's a scene where a rabbi explains it the the guy (forgot his name) who's obsessed w/ figuring out what pi is actually equal to. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm sorry if this is confusing ... I've got a physics midterm in about two hours ... and all I can think about is vectors, radioactive decay, and some other stuff...</p>