Is happiness worth $80,000 in debt?

<p>The former provost of my son’s college (Rollins College in Florida), Roger Casey, this year became president of McDaniel College in Westminister, Maryland. Casey got his doctorate in English, and did a fine job at Rollins of supporting the humanities and helping Rollins be a nurturing environment that offered an education that was better in many ways than I got at Harvard.</p>

<p>I suggest taking a good look at McDaniel. It’s a private LAC named in “Colleges that Change Lives.”</p>

<p>Some of the merit aid it offers:</p>

<p>"<br>
McDaniel Academic Scholarships
Awarded by the Admissions Office to prospective freshmen, these awards range from $8,000 to full tuition. Recipients have outstanding high school academic records and SAT scores above the national average. The awards are renewable for four years or eight semesters as long as the student is enrolled full time. All applicants for admission are automatically reviewed for an award. The award amounts DO NOT increase.</p>

<p>McDaniel Maryland Scholars Program Awarded by the Admissions Office to prospective Maryland resident freshmen, these awards range from $12,500 to $20,000 per year for four years. Recipients have SAT scores of 1150 or higher, high school grade point averages of 3.3 or higher, and have taken college prep curriculm with strong senior year course loads. Students must be enrolled full time. The award amounts DO NOT increase. "</p>

<p>You only go thru life once. Picture what you want your diploma to read on your future office wall. St. Mary’s is not William & Mary. It may not be your dream…sounds like St. Mary’s is someone else’s. Only you can decide and place value on a W&M education. </p>

<p>that said, I would not put all your eggs in one basket. Apply to a few great schools where you can picture yourself being happy, then as those wiser than me have said, “Fall in love with the school that falls in love with you.”</p>

<p>“You and your education last a lifetime.” </p>

<p>So will your debt, possibly. What do you plan to do with your English major afterwards? Is graduate school in the picture?</p>

<p>Agree with other posters who have said to check out other schools you could fall in love with, and that will love you back with merit aid! And file the FAFSA. Your parents may be assuming they don’t qualify for aid when they actually do.</p>

<p>

I have to address this. 33 years ago students from normal families could attend an Ivy because they were affordable. Today an Ivy can cost 4x what a family makes annually. That reasoning doesn’t hold water anymore.</p>

<p>some english majors make a lot of money, so do some college dropouts. again, rockerdad, and others are incorrectly focused on the bottom line.</p>

<p>what about the notion that you may be making 100k+ soon after graduation. and can pay off your 80k in 6 years. so don’t buy a new beamer your first decade out of college and pay off your student loan with that money. we’re talking about the price of a fancy new car or maybe two average cars, what’s the big deal?</p>

<p>Seems like most of the posters here value the new beamer over your education.</p>

<p>And I love the links to the so called “good” public schools, go down to your local DMV and look around. The same government institution runs those public colleges. Sure, good people and people who become successful come out of publics, but if you value private W&M you should pursue what YOU value! It’s your life! And all anyone here is worried about is money. It’s only money.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone for the good advice. Saint Mary’s is a fantastic school, however I do not find it to be a good fit for me. (Too close to home!) Thank you for all of the other schools you reccomended, I will certainly look into them.
As for an ROTC scholarship, I wouldn’t take the scholarship until I knew I could commit to an Army career.
Northstarmom, W&M is a public school. I am applying to TCNJ, Mary Wash, and Dickinson as well, which are cheaper and may offer more aid. Thank you for all your suggestions, and I hope to God that college debt won’t cause me to be an unmarried, unhappy spinster for the rest of my life!
And who knows what the job market will be like 5 years from now? Hopefully it will be better.</p>

<p>private W&M? Whats that W&M is comm of Virginia PUBLIC. Its expensive for OP cause OP is from Maryland. </p>

<p>On the one hand - UMd is a good school, with lots of good programs. And yeah, its nice to have as little debt as possible. One general rule, is to keep your debt below one year of your starting post college salary. As a liberal arts grad (even from a good well-connected school like W&M) you are on the high edge of that rule. And one of the big problems for financially challenged folks going for an Out of state public, is they dont offer a lot of merit aid. Well at least the very desirable ones, like the VA publics, dont.</p>

<p>On the other hand. You’re talking 60k in debt, not 200k. I am skeptical that someone who is hardworking and reasonably frugal is going to be SO held down by 60k in debt. Of course you could get unlucky and find yourself with no job at all when you graduate. And of course we all have different values - to some deferring having a decent car or a “nice” place to live for several years is a bigger deal than where you go to college. For others, not. You have to decide what is more important to YOU. Also, W&M is much smaller than UVA. That could be a fit issue. Is it the size that draws you to W&M or something else. Maryland also has a “public lib arts college” - St Marys, I think? Have you visited there? Would it work for you? It doesnt have the rep of W&M but could still be a good choice.
And of course you need to have your folks fill out the FAFSA and see what $$ you get in need based aid.</p>

<p>If I were you, I would definitely apply to W&M, apply to UMD and/or StMarys, and maybe to a private or two (ask here for ones likely to offer merit aid). Then see what you get. Meanwhile do consider what is most important to you.</p>

<p>NO! So called “dream schools” can be 'nightmares very quickly. Often your dream is not based in reality but some sports related or social scene. Reality bites, so to speak. Its never healthy to be infatuated with one school. </p>

<p>Particularly with large state schools, where bureaucracy is rampant and professors can be cold and distant. </p>

<p>Go where you can afford to go. The national average on student debt is about 18-20k at graduation. Get real. Do yourself a favor and go to your state flagship or to a small private who will give you lots of money. (i.e. a match or safety school.) You will be happier in the long run.</p>

<p>The missing calculation here is what you can afford to spend w/o any private borrowing. That will tell you what you can afford and will limit your borrowing to the limits imposed by the federal programs . That “budget” will help keep your debt in check (60k to be paid back over 10 yearrs at 6% interest is $667 per month.)</p>

<p>The next step is applying to schools that are a mix of admissions reaches, fits and safeties. When you get your admissions answers the schools that accept you will supply financial aid packages. Adding those packages to the budget you already developed will THEN tell you if you can afford to attend a specific school or not.</p>

<p>It’s not a question of going for your dream or not; it’s applying to a group of schools ANY ONE OF WHICH YOU WOULD BE GLAD TO ATTEND then assessing the aid offers.</p>

<p>In other words, you really can’t tell if you can afford what you call your dream school right now unless you apply.</p>

<p>Adolesecent fantasy = I want my dream school and I wil be disappointed by all others </p>

<p>Mature admissions process = I would go to any of the 8 schools I apply to, I have a budget set beforehand so I know what I can afford, then I will asses the financial aid offers from schools that accept me and will pick my favorite that I can afford.</p>

<p>Kei</p>

<p>P.S. Sorry your parents aren’t more helpful.</p>

<p>"NO! So called “dream schools” can be 'nightmares very quickly. Often your dream is not based in reality but some sports related or social scene. Reality bites, so to speak. Its never healthy to be infatuated with one school. </p>

<p>Particularly with large state schools, where bureaucracy is rampant and professors can be cold and distant. "</p>

<p>W&M is about 5000 students IIRC and is hardly known as a sports power.</p>

<p>W&M passes for a private in size and reputation for us crazy Californians…our public schools have 25 to 30 thousand+ undergrad students each. </p>

<p>the world needs more dreamers and fewer accountants…good luck to you!</p>

<p>One thing to consider is making a budget. There are some websites that will help with this. Figure out what you might be earning and what those loans would cost you. I suspect you will be closer to $80K than $60 since tuition is likely to go up. And, there is the possibility that your college fund could shrink if it is in market funds of any sort.
And I always like the car image. You just graduated. Now go buy a decent, basic car. Push it off a cliff. Repeat three more times. Now pay for them all, while buying an actual car and paying for your first apartment and buying some furniture for it.
Don’t apply ED if your finances are not solid.</p>

<p>I do not see college as a place to party, have fun, and blow off an education. I am hardworking, resourceful, and I am not materialistic! My parents are being as helpful as they can be- I am the oldest child, and they don’t know any more about this whole confusing, expensive process than I do.
Kei-o-lei- I am 17. I, like most teenagers, have big dreams. I do not yet understand what it is like to pay loans, to pay mortgage, to work a 60 our week. Yes, I should keep a level head, I should know my financial limitations. But I prefer to “dream big” and hold onto hope for a brighter future than the one that college grads are facing now. I almost wish my parents would say “no, you can’t apply.” But instead, they are giving me the choice, and I don’t know what the future will be like in 2015.</p>

<p>Erin’s Dad: no I disagree. Ivy’s were not necessarily affordable 33 years ago, allowing middle class families to pay for them, and now all of a sudden they are too expensive for anyone to afford and therefore out of reach. Private colleges including the ivy’s were always expensive and out of reach for middle class families, that is without taking out loans.</p>

<p>We had three kids in my family, three years apart. That means the three of us were all in college at once at Brown, Cornell and Harvard (Freshman, Junior and Senior). When my oldest sib started Harvard, my parents had $200 in the bank, to pay all bills not just college. The annual tuition was $10,000 for one student with one parent maybe making $30,000 per year. We didn’t get any FA either with three kids wanting to go to private colleges.</p>

<p>No, an ivy college tuition was NOT affordable for any middle class family, even 30 years ago. But you know what, you take out loans. I don’t regret taking out low interest student loans for the college of my choice. It certainly was a star that was out of reach at the time, but it didn’t stop me from reaching. Reach for the stars, skydancer…get into that school of your dreams and you’ll find a way to finance it. To pay back loans, however, you also have to be realistic about your choice of profession. Nothing in life is free. But I wouldn’t have been happy with a state college education. It may be right for some, but it wasn’t a match for me. Is it a match for you?</p>

<p>You haven’t told us why attending W&M is your dream. </p>

<p>Why isn’t your dream to be an English scholar or a literary master whose books will be widely acclaimed 50-100 years from now and who will win the Nobel Prize for literature. Go ahead, dream big!</p>

<p>Also, you should apply anyway, because maybe Mom and Dad can come up with more money when they really put their minds to it. Maybe they forgot to count the money that they spend feeding you now.</p>

<p>Redbluegoldgreen, yes, I think it is a match for me. I have visited twice, and both times I felt so comfortable on campus, with the students, and with the interviewer. Your story is so inspiring, it makes it seem like it is still possible to achieve your dreams, even when money is an issue. My parents are urging me to really consider the options- they are actually supportive of me applying ED to W&M- provided I can find a way to finance it.
In the mean time, I’m still visiting some other great schools. The Ivy’s are very out of reach for me! I have a month and a half before I have to decide. It just seems like such a huge decision. I really don’t know what to do. Dreams or logic?</p>

<p>"I suspect you will be closer to $80K than $60 since tuition is likely to go up. "</p>

<p>if her parents income remains the same, their EFC should remain the same, and her aid should increase as tuition increases.</p>

<p>Caveat, I have no idea how W&M does at meeting FAFSA estimated need. </p>

<p>Its also possible that if her dads income is depressed by the economy, that it will increase over the next four years. But since he seems not to share any of that with her, its hard to say.</p>

<p>“My parents are urging me to really consider the options- they are actually supportive of me applying ED to W&M- provided I can find a way to finance it.”</p>

<p>Unless you decide that ROTC really IS for you, I would be reluctant to apply ED.</p>

<p>Read the book “Stumbling on Happiness” and then revisit this.</p>

<p>You will learn a lot about decision making and what really makes people happy. It’s generally not what you think.</p>

<p>A couple of things after skimming this thread:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I hope you plan to major in something that will help you pay off that amount of debt.</p></li>
<li><p>Don’t forget about the interest that adds up, in which you could have 80k in debt but gain 50k more from interest.</p></li>
<li><p>What’s the point of going to a school out-of-state when you can get the same education in-state. Plus if you plan to go to graduate school…have fun with over 200k in debt. It doesn’t matter where you start, but where you end up.</p></li>
</ol>