Is happiness worth $80,000 in debt?

Applying to College
81

<p>I think the problem is that W&M should not be her/his dream.</p>

<p>There are enough excellent colleges that you should be able to find one that meets your specifications but will not cost you an arm and a leg. Keep the college on your list but only apply to it RD. Apply to a whole range of schools including ones that are like W&M but cheaper and you might have to compromise on some less important factors such as distance from home.</p>

<p>The debate needs to shift from “ideal blissful reaching for the stars dream vs. $80,000 debt” to “college I think I really want to go to that I will only be at for four years vs. $80,000 debt.”</p>

<p>In a completely unrelated note, 300 posts! :D</p>

82

<p>Hey Skydancer,</p>

<p>Here’s my advice, (I’m a college admissions consultant and private tutor):</p>

<p>It depends on what you want to do. If you envision yourself in a higher paying career, such as consulting, banking, computer programming, or engineering, pharmaceuticals, etc. and know that out of school you could earn 60K+ per year, I would say go for it. If you live meagerly in your 20’s, you can live cheap and work hard to pay it back fast. I have several friends from undergrad who went this route-- sold their souls to be i-bankers or consultants or work for an internet firm for 2-6 years, paid off the loans, and now can move on with their lives. That necessitates, however, such jobs being available and your qualification for such jobs.</p>

<p>If on the other hand, you’re planning to major in English literature, or become a filmmaker, or work in a highly competitive, low initial pay field such as politics, or non-profits, and potentially go to graduate school in a discipline that does not lead to lucrative employment, I would advise you to think more about debt. I went to USC for an MFA in film, and many of my friends are so buried in debt that they can’t make their dreams become a reality-- the field is so competitive, and jobs pay so little, that they have to take on work that does not advance their career and takes up 50 hours a week just to keep on top of their monthly payments. They have no time to be creative or work on personal projects. Others have moved away or started in other fields (web design) in order to deal with their debt. I am debt free, but worked part time concurrently (tutoring) while going to school to make that a reality, and had some money from my grandparents that helped a lot. However, as an undergrad, I attended Stanford and I wouldn’t trade that for the world-- it was my dream school and I got to go there. Stanford, and several top tier schools, have incredible aid packages for students with need, and at this point are “no loan.” When I went, however, many of my friends incurred debt, and large amounts of it.</p>

<p>If you’re thinking of attending professional school that leads to a higher paying career, I think it’s a draw (i.e. MBA, Law School, MD, etc.). You’ll be able to afford paying it back, but you’ll likely amass a huge amount of debt ($200K), that you’ll still be paying back into your mid-thirties (or rather, won’t start paying back until you are 30!). It’s do-able, but something to think about. I have friends in this situation as well-- they’re digging themselves out of the hole, but it’s going to take a while.</p>

83

<p>I like the posts saying he should shoot for the stars and let nothing hold him back, we need more dreamers in america yadda yadda. Some really rich stuff.</p>

<p>I recommend the OP look at college like buying a product. The new leather seats and the powerful engine will make you feel great at first, but you very well might end up having some buyer’s remorse later. Once those 4 years are up and all you have are memories and a ****load of debt, it can really come back to bite you in the ass. Believe me, I took out a small fraction of what you are considering and I’m already feeling it.</p>

84

<p>You definitely should apply, but not ED! You and your parents need both financial and educational choices.</p>

85

<p>Skydancer</p>

<p>Don’t do it. There is no perfect school. You will be crippling yourself with debt. And you can’t get out of student loam debt by filing bankruptcy. Stafford loans survive bankruptcy. </p>

<p>I have ROTC experience. It is very difficult to get the scholarships now. You need to ask yourself a question. “What do I want to be when I graduate?”. If your answer is not immediately “an officer” then ROTC is not for you. It should never be used to pay for school. The military is very efficient at weeding people out of the program. My DSs unit started with 22 in hus class two years ago. Now down to 4. It was very easy to tell who would make it.</p>

86

<p>My son was in a similar position as you are now. I had $80,000 set aside for him, which would pay for our state school (Rutgers). He felt RU was too close to home, and applied to some private schools and other publics (UMD, UNC, W&M, UVa, UMich, SUNY Binghamton) as well as some privates (American, Duke, Northeastern). His accepted list was</p>

<p>UMD (Honors - with scholarship)
SUNY BInghamton
American (Honors with scholarship)
Northeastern (Honors with Scholarship)
Rutgers (Honors with scholarship)
Others were rejects or wait lists</p>

<p>He ruled out RU due to distance, so he had a short list. He ended up getting so much money from American that the $80,000 fund will just about pay for his expenses at AU. That helped him make the final decision.</p>

87

<p>What’s the cost of a lifetime of regret? Certainly the toll on your psyche if you don’t apply will be more than $60,000. You have to live your life such that you’ll have no regrets. There’s plenty of ways to deal with paying for college or forgiving debt later on down the road.</p>

<p>I can’t tell you how many smart students in my high school class were afraid of taking on any debt and ended up at mediocre schools and who are now in mediocre jobs, living in mediocre houses, leading mediocre lives.</p>

<p>Go for it! You won’t be sorry. Take some calculated risks. Bet on yourself and don’t look back.</p>

88

<p>Yea man, live life fast and young. Go out and rack up that credit card debt, you’ll look back and say “My life sucks now but I sure did live those golden years. Maybe if I vote for Obama he will give me some welfare checks I can use to pay them back”</p>

89

<p>Whatever decision you make, don’t make it out of fear, or bullying from others.</p>

90

<p>OP, please take a look at SUNY Geneseo. It’s not quite as prestigious (or hard to get into) as William and Mary but it is more so on both counts than St. Mary’s/Maryland. It’s also closer to urban areas than St. Mary’s, which seems pretty remote from everything out there on the Eastern Shore. Geneseo is a beautiful public LAC, and costs for out-of-state students are very reasonable–not much more than instate public VA costs. When I went there as a guest lecturer, I was very impressed by the quality of the students and the beauty of the campus–it seemed roughly equivalent to W & M (where my husband used to teach, so I’m very familiar with it). My niece attends Geneseo and loves it; I’m encouraging my daughter to look at it even though we live in VA. The English Dept. is pretty good, too; you could certainly get a fine undergraduate education there.</p>

91

<p>Picking a college is all about $$$, it’s not about finding happiness. If you are a fairly normal person, your’ll find happiness anywhere. </p>

<p>If my kid were to say to me, “Oh, I think I want to spend extra 80K because I think I would be happier here.” I would say, “Get out of here.”</p>

<p>If my kid were to say, “I have a choice going to a top 20 vs a state school.” I would borrow money for my kid to go because I do believe education will last someone a life time. A private education from a top school is priceless. It’s an inheritance I would be happy to give my kids.</p>

<p>In the OP’s case, even though W&M is a better public, is it 80K better? It is more expensive to OP because she is out of state. What could W&M do for OP that her instate couldn’t do for her?</p>

<p>I am all for shooting for the star, but I am also not into wasting money.</p>

92

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<p>Obama won’t be president when he graduates (or for very long after). Did you REALLY need to involve politics in this? :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>Would you stop giving the kid unrealistic expectations? Yes, we get it. You went to an expensive school and you paid it off. You also went to school when it was MUCH cheaper, when the army footed part of your bill, and when there was a better economy. </p>

<p>College kids are taking on crippling debt and they can’t find jobs. What meager jobs they CAN find, all of their money goes towards student loans. Please, just stop. The OP can find a school that he or she loves that won’t leave him or her broken for the next few decades. Please just stop believing that a dream can get you anything. I’m sorry, but a dream can’t feed you.</p>

<p>ETA:
My aunt went to a “mediocre” school because it’s what she could afford (it’s also where I attend now). She is now one of the leading gastroenterologists in the country. She has lived anything but a “mediocre” life. Quit implying that if you “settle” for a state school that you’re going to “settle” for a mediocre life. It’s just false.</p>

93

<p>If money is a concern, I wouldn’t do ED. I would apply RD to all schools, THEN compare all offers. If I were your parents, I wouldn’t support you ED anywhere.</p>

94

<p>Roman - No I never went to school when it was “much cheaper.” My med school bill cost $100,000. Now it’s $200,000 for the same school. Either way it’s an astronomical sum of money. </p>

<p>But guess what, without having rich parents, you can still find a way to pay for it.</p>

95

<p>"
What’s the cost of a lifetime of regret? "</p>

<p>Don’t be silly. Probably most students pick schools that they can afford, and that means that they don’t go to schools that would be their dream schools.</p>

<p>They don’t live with lifetimes of regret. They make friends, have interesting courses and enjoyable experiences at the school that they go to, and their dream school fades away in their minds. Most will live their lives being happy and proud of the school that they did decide to attend.</p>

<p>There also is no guarantee that going to one’s dream school will lead to a perfect or even happy college experience. Bad roommates, broken hearts, encounters with nonwelcoming cliques, bad professors, etc. can happen anywhere – including at one’s dream school. </p>

<p>Also a dream school is just that – a dream. Reality always differs from one’s dreams.</p>

96

<p>Northstarmom, I think we just have a difference of opinion on what makes for a happy, productive, satisfying life. I’m looking to lead an “epic” life. Looks like you are satisfied with “settling.”</p>

97

<p>

Well, he doesn’t seem concerned that his “big dream” seems to be racking up lots of debt for America…</p>

<p>OP: from an earlier post of yours</p>

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So you no longer plan on majoring in studio art?</p>

<p>Being an out of state girl, your chances for W&M are the toughest. ED would give you an admissions boost, but don’t you think you should run a finaid calculator before committing to that ED application? </p>

<p>Then again, some on CC think it’s fine to commit to applying ED even if one thinks they can’t afford it. There is always that “Oh, I don’t want to pay this much!” out.</p>

98

<p>redbluegold green,</p>

<p>Going to one’s dream school doesn’t mean one will live an “epic” life. </p>

<p>Going to a dream school doesn’t guarantee that one will live a happy, productive or satisfying life.</p>

<p>For the record, I went to Harvard. I have had some wonderful successes in my life, and I know some people who went to mediocre undergraduate schools who have had equal or greater successes than I have.</p>

<p>What you do with your education is far more important than is what college you attend.</p>

<p>Grad school is more important than is undergraduate.</p>

<p>The OP wants to major in English. There are cheaper schools that can give the OP an equal or better education in that field than W&M.</p>

99

<p>Attending your dream school is part of the epic. It’s choosing where you want to go that’s important. It’s the idea that the journey is important too, not just where you end up.</p>

100

<p>Having an epic journey depends on one’s actions, not the college one is attending. I know people who are having epic journeys at community colleges. I know people who are having mediocre journeys at highly respected colleges.</p>

<p>There’s a big difference between dreams and plans.</p>