Is Huntsman Over-rated?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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<p>Last year, 600 seniors applied for 45 spots in the Huntsman program (7.5% acceptance rate), making Huntsman more competitive than HYPS. Of those, 86 applied early decision and 25 were accepted (29%). Given all the hype surrounding the Huntsman program, I feel a lot of people are applying early just for the admissions edge. I admit I'm about the become one of those people. BUT, is Huntsman really worth it???</p>

<p>-How is it different from other dual-degree programs that one could construct after being accepted into, say, Wharton (which has a higher acceptance rate than Huntsman and thus would be safer to apply regular decision).</p>

<p>-Is early decision really easier? I've heard talk that the only reason the early admit percentages are higher is because the applicants are just better...what do you guys think?</p>

<p>-How generous is Penn with early decision financial aid packages?</p>

<p>-What exactly is this "international business"? Does a degree from the college of arts and sciences really add that much value to an economics degree from Wharton?</p>

<p>Any thoughts would be VERY welcome</p>

2

<p>ED fin. aid packages are going to be the same as RD fin. aid packages, except they're binding. (and don't anyone on here give me that ******** about declining ED because of finances)</p>

<p>ED for the joint degree programs is not an advantage. They're reading all the applications, and "when" you apply doesn't matter as much. It may seem that more students are accepted early, but that's because the most motivated students apply early. Apply RD is not going to hurt you when it comes to joint programs.</p>

<p>The joint programs have a community, alum base, and special curriculum that normal dual degrees don't. It may or may not be worth it to you. That said, a whole second degree isn't always worth it for most people who just want to take certain classes.</p>

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<p>It doesn't hurt applying to the Hunstman program. If you don't get accepted, they still might consider you for "regular" Wharton, without the double degrees.</p>

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<p>Wouldn't it seem like the most competitive/competent students apply RD because they don't need the boost that ED, especially ED at UPenn, gives to them?</p>

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<p>Penn doesn't "give" a boost to ED students. The observed higher admission rate for ED comes from applicants who are highly qualified and better interested in the school. People who know they want to go to Penn apply ED, and those who aren't sure apply RD. There's no "boost" conferred either way.</p>

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<p>following what matt said, a good part of the reason why the ED rate is higher is probably the "Why Penn?" essay. people who apply ED tend to know more about Penn's programs, activities, campus etc, and therefore end up constructing better essays. the kids who decide to apply for the hell of it ("hey its an ivy, why not?") on average tend to write crappier "Why Penn?" essays. To the admissions counselor, a bad "Why Penn" essay demonstrates that the individual probably won't come to Penn unless rejected by their top schools.</p>

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<p>"Last year, 600 seniors applied for 45 spots in the Huntsman program (7.5% acceptance rate), making Huntsman more competitive than HYPS."</p>

<p>Lol, no... just... no.</p>

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<p>If you are in Huntsman, does that make you part of Wharton?
Like if someone were to ask, do you go to wharton? Would you say yea? confused.</p>

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<p>chair2-Huntsman students are technically part of both college and wharton, but wharton's their main affiliation. </p>

<p>kk19131-yes...</p>

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<p>"kk19131-yes..."</p>

<p>All I want is for you to prove it. Show me that the students in this program are stronger than those in HYPS; show me that the top % of people who applied to this program was stronger than those who applied to Harvard. Acceptance rates don't make selectivity - students do. For what you're saying to be true you'd have to show that the students who applied to this program were statistically equal to or BETTER than the top 600 people who applied to HYPS; unless you can do that, then you can't make that statement.</p>

<p>Thus, you're saying: "Last year, 600 seniors applied for 45 spots in the Huntsman program (7.5% acceptance rate), making Huntsman more competitive than HYPS." seems quite a shallow assessment to me. You look at an acceptance rate and say "gee, it's smaller than HYPS, thus it must be more selective!" That's silly.</p>

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<p>kk19131, I think that if Northwestern had a sub-30% admit rate you wouldn't be calling that measure "silly." This is like those liberal arts colleges protesting the college rankings. Help! Who is going to fill spot 94??</p>

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<p>"kk19131, I think that if Northwestern had a sub-30% admit rate you wouldn't be calling that measure "silly."</p>

<p>I actually think it does have a rate smaller than 30%, but what does that have to do with anything? You are free to try to attack me all you like; I really don't care. The fact is, admissions rates do not equal selectivity and competitiveness, plain and simple. </p>

<p>Unless you're willing to say that College of the Ozarks is more selective than MIT, or that Tougaloo College is more competitive than Duke, then you shouldn't argue (with no basis) that this program is more competitive than HYPS. Plain and simple.</p>

<p>"This is like those liberal arts colleges protesting the college rankings. Help! Who is going to fill spot 94??"</p>

<p>How is that analogous? That's ridiculous.</p>

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<p>I'm just saying that people have a tendency to attack a measure of quality when it doesn't work in their favor. </p>

<p>Your comparison of Hunstman to College of the Ozarks and Tougaloo College is so misguided I don't know where to begin. Not only does Hunstman have the same numbers as HYPS, but it holds its own in cross-admit battles.</p>

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<p>"I'm just saying that people have a tendency to attack a measure of quality when it doesn't work in their favor."</p>

<p>-Doesn't work in my favor? Are you really saying that I'm only making this argument to make Northwestern seem more selective? Please.</p>

<p>"Not only does Hunstman have the same numbers as HYPS, but it holds its own in cross-admit battles."</p>

<p>Like I said in the beginning, before you began to attack me, prove it. Sure it's easy to claim all this stuff, but back it up with facts. Do that and I'll accept it and move on.</p>

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<p>mneorca1,</p>

<p>kk just loves to debate and argue just about anything.</p>

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<p><a href="http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2007/05/11/News/Yield.Predicted.To.Reach.Record.67.Percent-2899454.shtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2007/05/11/News/Yield.Predicted.To.Reach.Record.67.Percent-2899454.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]

Stetson emphasized the success of interdisciplinary programs, which experienced the greatest increase in yield rates.</p>

<p>The Huntsman Program in International Business enrolled 87 percent of accepted students, up from 69 percent last year. The Jerome Fisher Management and Technology program's yield rate rose 15 percentage points to 71 percent, while the Vagelos Program in Molecular Life Sciences remained steady at 65 percent.</p>

<p>"It is encouraging that students are turning down significant offers from Harvard, Yale and Princeton for these programs," Stetson said.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm sure you will bring up the point that this article is no evidence... However, I don't think that Stetson would lie about drawing students away from HYP if it wasn't true. Also, you will never find objective and statistic data about cross-admits. A yield of 87% is pretty impressive, though. </p>

<p>
[quote]

The fact is, admissions rates do not equal selectivity and competitiveness, plain and simple.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You're right. Admission rates, however, are a very important factor for selectivity. What's even more important though, is the fact that Huntsman applicants are in a very self-selected pool: Calculus in high school is a requirement and applicants must be fluent in a foreign language in order to be eligible to apply... that's pretty intense.
In addition, all applicants have to write a new essay and only ambitious applicants who know they have a legitimate shot at Huntsman are up to write an additional essay on top of all the college application stress. So there are only very few "for the heck of it" applicants, I guess.</p>

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<p>"For what you're saying to be true you'd have to show that the students who applied to this program were statistically equal to or BETTER than the top 600 people who applied to HYPS; unless you can do that, then you can't make that statement."</p>

<p>There's the selectivity, the percent yield, and obviously I can't collect the stats of top 600 ppl who applied to HYPS, but keep in mind that applicants to Huntsman generally have more going for them outside of stats than applicants for HYPS (i.e. speaks 5 languages, lived in 4 different countries, started own business)</p>

18

<p>"However, I don't think that Stetson would lie about drawing students away from HYP if it wasn't true."</p>

<p>-I'm not going to call the man a liar - I'm sure the program does draw some people away from HYP (as do most elite schools), but he did work for Penn after all.....</p>

<p>"Also, you will never find objective and statistic data about cross-admits."</p>

<p>-Indeed, so how can one say the program is "more competitive" than HYPS? I'm not saying the program isn't, by all means, very competitive, but to say that it's "more competitive" than Harvard - I just have a hard time buying that.</p>

<p>"A yield of 87% is pretty impressive, though."</p>

<p>-Indeed it is. This is the closet thing to some kind of evidence that I've seen. If we "believe" that the program is enrolling at least statistically higher students than those in Penn as a whole, and 87% matriculates, then at least a slight inference about the strength of the class can be made - but I still wouldn't go as far as to say the admissions pool is "more competitive" than that of HYP. </p>

<p>"So there are only very few "for the heck of it" applicants, I guess."</p>

<p>-True, but it could also be that many these students are just... right... for the Hunstman program but would stand no chance at being admitted to HYP. Now I'm not saying that this is, in reality, the case, but it is possible. All I'm saying is that if you're going to say that this program is "more competitive" than HYPS, then you have to know for a fact that the students in said program could indeed have gone to those school if they had the choice to.</p>

<p>"and obviously I can't collect the stats of top 600 ppl who applied to HYPS,"</p>

<p>Well then, you can't say that the program is more competitive than those school, now can you?</p>

<p>"but keep in mind that applicants to Huntsman generally have more going for them outside of stats than applicants for HYPS"</p>

<p>Like I said, you show me the top 600 students who applied to these schools, then say things like: "applicants to Huntsman generally have more going for them outside of stats". I find it funny that you can say this with no knowledge of who applies to HYPS and what qualifications they have.</p>

<p>Yet again, the program is great and quite selective, but then again so are most other programs at elite schools. My own school has an honors program for medical students, but I don't go saying that said program is more competitive than HYPS just because it's small.</p>

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<p>And indeed, HPME does draw students away from HYPS as well...</p>

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<p>I visited UPENN today and was captivated by both the regular college as well as the dual degree programs, particularly the Huntsman program. I was able to get a meeting with the associate director of the program who was very nice, helpful, and accomplished. He mentioned that the students who apply to the program often already speak two or more languages fluently and plan to learn another during the program. He said it was one of the most rigorous academic programs around. He said the students coming into the program were extremely accomplished. I plan to apply to both Huntsman first choice with the regular college of letters and sciences second choice. Thats my background on this topic. Not an expert.</p>

<p>My guess is that this program is the absolute best it can get if you are interested in it. I’m not one to subscribe to the all or nothing thinking of whether one program is more rigorous or competitive than another. I will say, however, that if you are interested in international business, studying abroad while earning a business degree from Wharton, marketing to a larger community that speaks a different language than English, or other similar pursuits, it does not get much better than the Huntsman program. At least for undergrad. However, to get a more comprehensive education in liberal arts, HYPS or PENN itself might be a better choice. Comparing Huntsman to HYPS is 100% apples to oranges. Huntsman from the outside seems more like a very concentrated major in international studies and business. Where HYPS offers a much broader kind of education for students who are mostly undeclared, The Huntsman program has a very specific goal.</p>

<p>One thing I can add to the argument of locuspocous and Rister is that JP Morgan, Goldman Sacchs, UBS, and other extremely profitable and world renowned companies go directly to the Huntsman program to interview. It’s rare that you will get that kind of attention as an undergrad student at HYPS, at least from what my father told me as a Harvard graduate. And even if that has changed, these companies look for students from Huntsman to represent themselves all over the world due to the extremely rigorous language program offered at Huntsman. </p>

<p>So that’s my take. Hope this helps the debate. I’m a rising senior in high school and I’m applying ED to Huntsman and UPENN (which yes, is allowed, trust me, I asked everybody I saw at PENN). I hope I can get in, if not I’m applying to a bunch of other schools I love, Harvard and Stanford included.</p>