Is it a good idea to with hold race if you're Asian?

Pre-College Topics High School Life
81

<p>Sentient89 said, "If you are going to attack my intelligence at least do so correctly. GPA and SAT scores are not always proper indicators of intelligence, effort perhaps, but not intelligence. Anyways, it doesn't take a genius to run a software company, I'm sure even you might be able to do it." </p>

<p>Why are people complaining about URMs getting in with lower stats then? if "GPA and SAT are not always proper indicators of intelligence."</p>

<p>hahaha....such jerks. Why are GPA and SAT scores ALL people use to bash AA then?????</p>

<p>Let me get this out into the air now: In the 60s most blacks were shut out of top schools for being BLACK, so AA had to be based on race. I hate it when people use only what they want to furthur their bigotted views. Personally, I think AA is degrading because i've worked hard and for someone to tell me I only got into top schools because i'm a URM irks me. That's so ridiculous. Everyone that get's into HYP MIT standard, etc deserve and are very qualified to be there no matter the race. over 20,000 applied to Harvard, people who think they're qualified will and did get rejected. Don't say a URM stole your place because if Harvard (or where ever) wanted you badly enough, you would have gotten in. Blame your rejection on yourself and the competitiveness of the applicant pool.</p>

<p><em>steps off soapbox</em></p>

82

<p>That still does not classify Indian's as Asian. If you want to use the "more restrictive meanings now used in the U.S." then Asian refers to peoples from China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Mongolia, etc.</p>

<p>And secondly, man on fire said "No, I am positive that Indians are classified as Asians. Caucasians are individuals that are Hispanic/Latino/Carribean Islander." These people are not white.</p>

<p>So if you go by my definition, then Indians are Caucasians.
If you go by General Rak's, then Caucasians are white.</p>

<p>Either way, man<em>on</em>fire is wrong. None of the facts support his statements. I'm not saying this makes man<em>on</em>fire a bad person. I'm just stating that he is wrong, because both official sources do not agree with his statement.</p>

83

<p><a href="http://www.isteve.com/2002_Who_Exactly_Is_an_Asian_American.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.isteve.com/2002_Who_Exactly_Is_an_Asian_American.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I don't entirely agree with it, but it makes some good points.</p>

84

<p>Indian is a blend.</p>

<p>You see, the British took over India and found many Anglos because there have been many long lost tribes that are brothers that went to Japan (Ainu)...</p>

<p>You all may wonder why Japan is the only nonwhite first world country and beat the Russian brethren in the 1900s... that is because they simply were White. The major generals were all Ainu. It's true, and you can look it up.</p>

<p>Quite frankly, why is it that Europe // European siblings is thousands of years in the future of Asia (save for Japan) Africa? It baffles because you all can't discuss race anymore.</p>

85

<p>Huh??? amnesia, you must really have amnesian cuz your post makes no sense.</p>

<p>And Rak, nice link. It poses more questions than answers tho =(</p>

86

<p>I suggest you read Guns, Germs, and Steel, amnesia, which thoroughly debunks the assertions you made above.</p>

87

<p>don't worry about amnesia. he's just another one of those minority apologists. he's so pathetic.</p>

88

<p>i think sentinent89 is awesome.</p>

<p>Affirmative Action is stupid. it's racist, basically saying we will encourage some races and limit others. asians and blacks are both minorities, what's the difference? because asians as a whole work harder and achieve more, and therefore we should limit their entrance into college?</p>

<p>yeah. AA should die. is there a move to get rid of it?</p>

89

<p>Sigh... I really wanted to let the topic rest, but Lunknot just had to open the lid again with his comments.

[quote]

Sentient89 said, "If you are going to attack my intelligence at least do so correctly. GPA and SAT scores are not always proper indicators of intelligence, effort perhaps, but not intelligence. Anyways, it doesn't take a genius to run a software company, I'm sure even you might be able to do it."</p>

<p>Why are people complaining about URMs getting in with lower stats then? if "GPA and SAT are not always proper indicators of intelligence."</p>

<p>hahaha....such jerks. Why are GPA and SAT scores ALL people use to bash AA then?????

[/quote]

First off, I did not use GPA and SAT scores to bash AA.</p>

<p>Secondly, I stand by my position. Although stats are not necessarily indicators of intelligence, they generally do show how much effort an applicant has has put forth, and how much they have achieved (In school and on tests). Many times its how much you've accomplished that matters, not your intelligence. Believe it or not, you actually have to try to keep a 4.0 GPA - and keeping one (while taking tough courses) through out high school is a rather large accomplishment. And most colleges place a very heavy emphasis on them. </p>

<p>If one sees URMs being admitted with lower stats and ECs than the average non-URM, with all the weight on SATs and GPA one really has to question the legitimacy of all this.

[quote]

Let me get this out into the air now: In the 60s most blacks were shut out of top schools for being BLACK - what about Asians?, so AA had to be based on race. I hate it when people use only what they want to furthur their bigotted views. Personally, I think AA is degrading because i've worked hard and for someone to tell me I only got into top schools because i'm a URM irks me. That's so ridiculous. Everyone that get's into HYP MIT standard, etc deserve and are very qualified to be there no matter the race. over 20,000 applied to Harvard, people who think they're qualified will and did get rejected. Don't say a URM stole your place because if Harvard (or where ever) wanted you badly enough, you would have gotten in. Blame your rejection on yourself and the competitiveness of the applicant pool.</p>

<p><em>steps off soapbox</em>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well... there you go. You've said it yourself. AA is degrading for the very people it tries to "help." </p>

<p>And no, not everyone that gets in necessarily deserves to, AA is still around, it still lowers the limits for URMs. There are qualified URM applicants - and you may be one, but there is no denying AA exists. </p>

<p>As long as AA exists, it will be a blemish for those qualified URM HYPSM admitees.</p>

<p>This is really enough debating about something as silly as this. I know its not going to keep any truly accomplished people out of HYPSM, its only hurting those its trying to help and those who are on the edge. I'm really surprised there aren't many URMs arguing against AA.</p>

90

<p>not_silly:</p>

<p>apparantly you are silly. </p>

<p>Who's racist? "because asians as a whole work harder and achieve more" That is a gross generalization and you should be ashamed of yourself. You all think so narrowly, that's why I can't have an intelligent conversation with any of you. As of right now, this is my last post on this thread and i'm never reading anything in this thread again because most of you are asinine bigots.</p>

<p>"Affirmative Action is stupid"....wow...great argument....the sign of a true intellectual genius.</p>

<p>Asians aren't limited in their entrance into competive colleges, if anything they are over-represented. I'm tired of this.</p>

<p><em>out for good</em></p>

<p>PS - let me just respond to sentient89</p>

<p>Yes, I said AA is degrading (because people like you assume URMs get in based on color), which is ridiculous and untrue. It's favorable, in this day and age to be a miniority (because they are under-represented and they are for a reason...many reasons that everyone keeps over looking), to be a legacy, to be of a family that donates money to the school, and esp to have good stats. Why don't you bash the rich who overwhemingly dominate the pool of admits that get into schools like HYP instead of picking on people who are so disproportionately underrepresented that they can barely be seen on campus? </p>

<p>I understand the reasoning behing AA and that is why I support it and will continue to support it. If it were not for AA, miniorities would not have gotten into selective colleges; i'm thankful that blatant racism in college admission is at least, in part, over.</p>

<p>let's take Princeton who atmits 1,172 students
7% black (82 students)
63% white (738 students)</p>

<p>Now, tell me...who should be complaining???</p>

91

<p>Okay, I promised to quite arguing this. I just have to point out some gaping loopholes.</p>

<p>
[quote]

Yes, I said AA is degrading <a href="because%20people%20like%20you%20assume%20URMs%20get%20in%20based%20on%20color">b</a>**, which is ridiculous and untrue. It's favorable, in this day and age to be a miniority (because they are under-represented and they are for a reason...many reasons that everyone keeps over looking), to be a legacy, to be of a family that donates money to the school, and esp to have good stats. Why don't you bash the rich who overwhemingly dominate pool of admits that get into schools like HYP instead of picking on people who are so disproportionately represented that they can barely be seen on campus?

[/quote]

and

[quote]
If it were not for AA, miniorities would not have gotten into selective colleges

[/quote]

Was this just a trick to make me post? If so, I'm honored, although you could have just asked.

[quote]

i'm thankful that blatant racism in college admission is at least in part over.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]

let's take Princeton who atmits 1,172 students
7% black (82 students)
63% white (738 students)</p>

<p>Now, tell me...who should be complaining???

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Are you suggesting that the adcoms are still discriminating against blacks? Why would they support AA while actively discriminating against blacks?</p>

92

<p>I agree completely with sentient89. AA is basically saying flat out to those who it helps "you wouldn't get in here without some help, so we will help you" It is almost an insult, but hey, why complain if it helps you. That is why no one complains who it helps. If someone said you are poor and handed you a check for 100k would you complain?</p>

93

<p>"Affirmative Action is stupid. it's racist, basically saying we will encourage some races and limit others. asians and blacks are both minorities, what's the difference? because asians as a whole work harder and achieve more, and therefore we should limit their entrance into college?</p>

<p>yeah. AA should die. is there a move to get rid of it?"</p>

<p>Boy, there's something here I think everyone should think about. Notice how not_silly talks about Asians not getting into COLLEGE. Right. More than likely, they're not getting into THE college. They're still going to college, don't worry about that. Any accomplished, well-rounded Asian applicant will get in somewhere nice -- it may not be Harvard or Yale, but maybe it'll be University of Maryland or Vanderbilt. And really, I want to debunk some atrocious beliefs about affirmative action. </p>

<p>First of all, affirmative action is not what most people think. It is not setting aside a certain amount of places for a specific URM. Rather, it is an aggressive effort to recruit minorities who have historically been underrepresented in colleges. Everyone here mistakes "affirmative action" for "quotas". And even then, those so-called "quotas" are usually only a small portion of the entire admitted pool. Maybe, say, 50-100 students of URM background. Now, at a school like Harvard or Yale which each have 6,649 and 5,294 students respectively, this is not even a drop in the ocean. </p>

<p>In point of fact, most non-URM applicants will not be affected by the quotas some schools set up. Sure, there will be a few URMs who get in over another EQUALLY qualified student, but this does not affect the entire pool at large. I mentioned "equally" because race has a minor factor in many college decisions. </p>

<p>Say you had a white student with a 3.8 GPA and 1400 SATs and well-rounded profile who applied to Duke. On the other hand, you have a black student with a 3.7 GPA and 1380 SATs and well-rounded profile. This is where essays and affirmative action may play a role in deciding which one will get in. Obviously, if one's essays are really outstanding in comparison to the other, he/she will get in, irrespective of race. However, if both are decent essay writers, the black student has a higher chance of getting in. These days, admissions decisions at a majority of top colleges really is based on an admission official's whims. Seriously. If he/she is in a good mood, that may tip the balance in your favor, for example. </p>

<p>In any case, with those hypothetical students, I would think the black student, if everything else was equal, would have a better chance of getting in. Now, with those scores and GPA and accomplishments, the white student could easily get into other well-respected colleges, and probably snag a scholarship and stand out in that pool -- the big fish. But seriously, guys, this is unlikely to affect the majority of you, so you really should just give it a break. I realize this post may be a few days overdue, but I still want to give a new view to those who are fuming. </p>

<p>If you are accomplished, overall have a good GPA and SAT/ACT, you will do well anywhere you go, and get into a good college. Don't worry. That's my view, anyways, and you're free to disregard it or think about what I said. Thanks.</p>

94

<p>You are wrong in that quotas do not affect admittance of non-URMs. It does. You cited misleading figures to support your claim, that the quota set up for URMs is small compared to the total number of admitted students. Actually that quota is quite large when compared to the number of admittances per year, but you used the figure for the entire student population of two schools, Harvard and Yale, which doesn't make any sense. Each school can only admit so many students per year, and when you account for the quota reserved for URMs, there is effectively a quota for non-URMs.</p>

<p>And this quota is much worse for overrepresented minorities. In fact, schools like MIT specifically mentions that "there are no quotas for asian students" on their undergraduate admissions website's Q&A area. If a school has to single out a race of students and specifically claim that there are no quotas, what does that say about the overall phenomenon? And if AA is not responsible for this blatant practice of singling out a race, then what is?</p>

95

<p>is "multiracial" or "other" considered a URM?</p>