My daughter is a good student with a 4.43 weighted, 31 ACT. She has a very specific major that is only found in relatively large state universities. We live in NJ and only Rutgers University has her accredited major so she has applied to a number of out of state schools. Her top choice is University of Maryland but as we qualify for no financial aid, we’ve told her it’s a long shot for her to go. Her next favorite school is her ‘safety’ school in PA where she is a full 10 points over the mean via her ACT score and way over the average GPA. This school gives no merit money to out of state students but the tuition is only slightly higher than Rutgers’ so it would still be more or less affordable. However, I’m really struggling with the concept of her going to a much ‘lower’ school than she is capable of going to, especially since she’s getting no merit aid and did not get into the honors program. She loves the campus and feels its a good fit but it’s ranked much lower than Rutgers and it would be about $5000 more a year! I also feel like she might lose out on alumni connections at this PA state school and am worried the population of kids might be too dissimilar. She is the type of student, who, unfortunately, does not work to potential. Am I off base? She is still waiting for acceptances to other schools but without getting merit money, most of these out of state universities are probably out of our ballpark price range ($30,000). She thinks Rutgers is way too big and doesn’t like it at all. It’s rated ‘last’ in her mind. Thoughts? Has anyone else been in this situation?
Is she eligible for the Honors College at Rutgers? I went to Rutgers back in the 80s due to affordability and the Honors Program really did make a big school smaller. Also as she starts to take classes in her major, the class size will go down and chances are her classes will be clustered in a particular part of campus. Back in the day, nearly all of my classes were on main campus and I only took one or two classes over my four years that required taking the shuttle bus.
Other bonuses - New Brunswick is a lot nicer than it used to be and it’s a relatively easy train ride to Manhattan or Philadelphia.
I’m puzzled that her GPA and ACT are so much higher than the norm at the PA school and she didn’t qualify for honors. Would it be worth putting in a call to find out why she was denied? Maybe there is a piece of the application that went missing?
What is the major? Perhaps people here could identify other options for you where merit money might be available.
Also, what geographical range are you considering? There are schools in the Western states that can be quite reasonable for out of state students with strong test scores/GPA (Montana, WY, AZ, NM, UT are some possibilities). For example, her stats would get her in-state tuition (about 7K per year) at the University of New Mexico under the Amigo scholarship, with total COA of less than 20K. Total COA at U of Wyoming for out of state students is about 25K.
Did she apply to the University of Maryland by November 1? If she did, she’s eligible to be considered for merit scholarships. If she didn’t, she’s not eligible. They are absolutely 100% strict about this.
Her ACT score and transcripts were sent a few weeks ago and we got the application in two days before the deadline. Just made it…
What is her intended major- and does she (and you) understand that most college kids change their minds about majors at least once when they get to college?
Does that through off the calculus?
Personally- I was willing to pay more for more- more rigor, stronger student body, better research and internship opportunities, higher quality academic offerings. I was not willing to pay more for less- weaker students, less robust program, easier path to graduating without being challenged, etc.
YMMV.
I did NOT want to go to my flagship in my home county. Could not afford OOS/private schools. Went there and it was a world apart (and the world came to me, including people from NJ). I was a NMS (single award) with top stats and did whole Honors Program thing at a good school.
I think you could approach your D with short discussions about academic peer groups. She probably is used to being in classes with other top students. She likely has been in some classes with the average students (I was in some in HS due to scheduling difficulties). She may love a campus but she needs to consider the people she spends her time with. You can point out to her how she is used to her friends “getting it” quickly and functioning at a certain level. How will she feel in a class where she is consistently ahead of the other students?
Another factor can be what is expected of students and covered in classes. Will as much material be covered in Subject 101 as in the flagship schools? An example- a friend taught a couple of years at a state school (wasn’t a good fit for her) where less was to be taught in a semester course than she had TA’d under the quarter system.
Your D may assume that all colleges teach at the same level and not even have thought about the academics much. I assume she has taken AP courses- those are theoretically college level but only average college level. Her top flagship U possibilities will offer much more for a given course, especially at their Honors level. AT UW-Madison, for example, students who pass AP calculus still most often start with first semester calculus, even the regular non-honors, sequence. They simply won’t have covered as much material and often flounder if they start with the second semester.
The above are some concrete examples. Sometimes we get used to being with people at our level and forget that most are not as academically sharp (pardon my attempt at euphemisms). This sort of argument/point may open her eyes to what you are talking about.
Her ACT score puts in in 75th range for the College of Arts and Sciences at Rutgers so I don’t think she will get into the honors program. Two of friends have kids who got in last year and they both love it so far. My daughter’s major is Public Health/epidemiology. She is most interested in programs that have a combined BS/MPH program. Some other schools (smaller/private) have this major but most are not accredited so it has narrowed it significantly. The farthest she applied away from our house is University of South Carolina at Columbia. She has social issues so I was afraid to have her farther away than 10 hours and even that seems far. As for the PA school, I have heard they only accept 60 kids into the honors program and it’s mainly PA residents. During teacher convention week next week, she is going to call just to confirm that she didn’t get in.
I assume that she is waiting for teacher convention because her high school is so strict about student cell phone use that she could get suspended if she uses one during the school day – even for a purpose as necessary as this one.
I’m appalled that such rules still exist.
Thanks so much for the thoughts and advice. You are, unfortunately, echoing what I have been thinking. If she would have gotten into the honors program at the PA school, it would be less of an issue. All things being equal, I would agree that Rutgers is not a great fit for her which is why I have tried pushing Temple (really great public health program). She doesn’t like the city campus (Temple) and doesn’t want to take busses (Rutgers). The smaller, suburban PA school feels most like home to her. Going to an open house at Temple on Sunday and a tour at Rutgers to look at it again on Thursday.
Yes. Some teachers are nicer about it than others but it’s not worth the risk. Additionally, she has a extremely unhelpful guidance counselor who plans to retire next year so we’ve been on our own with this whole process!
Good for her about the Maryland application. As an out-of-state applicant, she is not as likely to get merit scholarship money as an in-state applicant would be, but you never know.
She should come in under $25,000 at Carolina. Did she apply to the Honors College?
@3irishgirls Try to keep an open mind about Temple, my family was really impressed at an accepted students day (had considered Temple as more of a safety) and my D is a freshman there now, doing well and loving it. The honors program is great, with good advising, classes, and faculty. There are honors activities and sponsored events which are popular with students. Although it is hard to say how merit aid will be handled this year since it is no longer guaranteed, the price tag may end up where it needs to be for you, too. Temple’s health programs definitely have a very good reputation, too.
@LuckyCharms913 She did! I was shocked how difficult and time consuming the essays were but it looks like a good program.
@mamag2855 I really liked Temple and most kids seem to be happy there. If she gets merit aid or gets in the honors program, I will push it more. Riots last week didn’t help
I should also mention my daughter is in marching band is it’s important to her to participate in college too.
Yes, the SCHC app is daunting but I’m glad to hear she completed it. My D is a 2nd year there and when she applied, there were 5 or 6 essays! We are also 10 hours away (Phila suburbs) and it’s not a bad drive. Campus is urban but Columbia is a manageable size and the campus, although it has shuttles, is quite walkable.
I don’t know much about marching band except that football is screamingly popular. Your D might be eligible for additional merit $ for that; you may want to check with the Carolina Music Dept.
@3irishgirls the recent violence at Temple is definitely a concern, but the campus has stepped up security patrols on the weekends, and is working to improve its alert system to help prevent future problems. We went to a Temple football game last weekend, and it was a lot of fun. We had pizza on campus later on the evening, in fact the campus seemed pretty calm for a Halloween weekend.
Yes the SCHC app can be daunting, so good for her. As recently as two years ago, it was 5 or 6 essays!
Columbia is a manageable city and while there are shuttle buses, the campus is quite walkable.
She may want to check with the Music Dept about possible additional merit for marching band.
FWIW, my D who is at Carolina also liked Temple a lot.
HS seniors are usually allowed to go off-campus to get lunch. Why she cannot do that to make a call?
GPA4.43 and ACT31 instate used to qualify for Honors and 5.5K merit at Rutgers couple of years ago.
Things change so fast. They are either getting too many good students and/or they do not have money any more.