Is it any wonder that some Chinese students try to get into US Colleges?

<p>I just found this thread. We have a lot of exposure to the top end of Chinese high school education - and to Chinese dissidents. </p>

<p>The one exam is common in the world. France has an exam, as does Japan, as do many nations. </p>

<p>The pressures in China are immense. I know kids whose parents regularly search their rooms looking not for drugs but for novels or other non-schoolwork reading material. And that’s the tip of the iceberg. As many Chinese kids and families have told me, there is always the spectre of millions of people pushing behind you. (And they say this as they take advantage of their rural relatives by treating them as servants - and I know of families who’ve had their rural cousin / housekeeper sleep in the storage room downstairs.) </p>

<p>There is ancient history of merit in China; during the various empires a village child could rise to high rank through education and exams. That kind of hierarchical approach - which is true to a large extent in Japan and less in France, as two examples - means they rank best, next best, next after that, etc. We don’t do that - well perhaps the weird devotees of US News dumb rankings do. </p>

<p>In my experience China does education nearly in the opposite manner from us. We spend tremendous dollars on special education and very little on the gifted - though the growth of AP has countered that trend to a degree. China puts resources into the most able. They test for them. If a kid shows special aptitude - in math, in music, in gymnastics, whatever - they’re encouraged to go to a Children’s Palace. These are in the bigger cities - probably spreading but I don’t know that level of detail any more - and may involved 1 on 1 instruction. Really gifted kids are often “encouraged” away from their families and are sent to Beijing or another center for really advanced training and education. This is not merely in diving or gymnastics but in flute and violin, etc. </p>

<p>The top schools in the cities are exam entrance. A typical top school might have several thousand applicants for a few hundred places, which isn’t that big a number until you realize an exam is involved (except, we understand, for the higher ranking party / army kids). </p>

<p>Classes are incredibly different from here. Questions are rare and often discouraged. There is little to no discussion, just lecture. I can tell from observation that kids pile up their books, put their heads down and sleep. Or read for pleasure. Or draw. The homework can be massive in quantity and everything is done by strict ranking and even competition; it’s not uncommon for schools to make academic teams that compete for the best grades. </p>

<p>BTW, there is morning drill and mandatory dance routines for the girls, etc. The dance routines are, to me, absolutely hilarious.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if I’m repeating material that’s been posted but the thread is kind of long and I didn’t read the entire thing.</p>

<p>As for politics, things are discussed carefully and some subjects are barely brought up if at all. We know the families of dissidents who were imprisoned after Tiananmen and that subject is, in our experience, generally taboo - though I can’t speak for Shanghai or Hong Kong. </p>

<p>All this said, the Chinese kids I’ve known are generally terrific people, full of humor, not oppressed - except by their parents. As a tibit, we know a number of Chinese teachers of English and they were all taught British style English. American English is now the norm and the accents have become much easier to understand, plus the kids now learn current slang. That can be jarring.</p>

<p>Both S1 & S2 (no Chinese ancestry) spent a couple of summers studying at a Beijing residential school for kids gifted in few particular talents. Once in awhile, typically on weekends, some parents visited. The competition was continuous and fierce. Each next level was achieved through competitive evaluation. The pressure was immense; fail to attain the next level and it was back to the province. Ss knew one kid who hurt himself and could not keep up for a term. After being there for years and nearly ready to move on, he was dismissed from the school, ultimately getting a job as a cab driver. One parent I got to know well on a visit who had been carefully watching the foreign students said she was first startled and then impressed by how confident and independent the Americans were. She said she wished her kids could be more like that. I remember thinking, I hoped those attributes were indeed a good thing.</p>

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<p>It was the world’s oldest meritocracy. If I remember correctly (Asian studies undergrad), they used to hold county exams once every years, provincial exams every 3 years, and national exams every 10 years (?). It was the only way into government bureaucracy.</p>

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<p>I know they do that with sports, music and dance, but I do not know they do that in academics as well, although I suspected as much. Last year, during the Olympics, an article from a Thai paper claimed that the Chinese students have done as well as, if not better than their athletes, have captured first place in the International Math, Physics, Chemistry, and Informatics Olympiads in 2008. (The only one I know they missed is the Biology Olympiad, and I can bet any money that their government is working on it). I find this somewhat disturbing, though I can not put my finger on why it is so.</p>

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<p>When Hong Kong was reverted back to China, she was given 50(?) years of self-rule. So far the promise holds, though some groups in the former British colony have been testing it, hard.</p>

<p>Friends from the island told me one improvement they can see is that the Chinese soldiers (PLA) are kept under iron discipline. They have never heard of drunken soldiers beating up civilians and the like, something that happened frequently when Hong Kong was under British rule.</p>

<p>Thanks for a very informative post.</p>

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<p>Why are you “proud” of coming from a country that apparently fed you untruths about the rest of the world? And seriously, where was your common sense? You REALLY thought everyone in America lived in a mansion with a black servant? Your education system isn’t as great as you think it is, apparently.</p>

<p>Why are you “proud” of coming from a country that apparently fed you untruths about the rest of the world?


&lt;p&gt;And seriously, where was your common sense? You REALLY thought everyone in America lived in a mansion with a black servant? Your education system isn't as great as you think it is, apparently.
~~~~~~~~~~~ Most people are stupid, that is why voting system never win.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I hear Bhutan is really nice.</p>

<p>[Bhutan</a> - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhutan]Bhutan”>Bhutan - Wikipedia)</p>

<p>BTW, American are so much fun, generally. Just listen to those stupid comments already provide more than enough funny material for me and my friends. Your guys live a terrible life, almost no education, and get brain washed it is OK, feel so sorry for your guys, voting system itself is bad enough, not to mention to live in those terrible wood structure and cut grass… Just go Shanghai, live a few days, to see what is real freedom and what is real SAFE environment. I put a post for the picture I took several days back, just to open your guys eye.</p>

<p>[China</a> Blocks Access To Twitter, Facebook After Riots - washingtonpost.com](<a href=“http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/07/AR2009070701162.html]China”>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/07/AR2009070701162.html)
interesting site. not sure if you can access it though. </p>

<p>I don’t know if this is wrong, but my parents absolutely do not buy packaged foods made in China. While some foods might get past them, they usually pick foods from Korea or Japan or even Taiwan because the quality is just so much better (barring they can’t find foods made in USA). Food adulteration is a concern. I read about one case where many hundred thousands of babies were malnourished due to adulteration. This is very bad.
[url=<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal]2008”>2008 Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia]2008</a> Chinese milk scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia<a href=“again,%20not%20sure%20if%20you%20can%20access%20this%20site%20either”>/url</a> I think that while there are some cases similar to this in USA, the government is on the side of the people (generally since mad people do not vote politicians in office again). There are many examples and my dad’s colleagues who live in China have also told him of many rumors of fake foods. I heard from him that recently some vendors have started mixing pieces of cardboard with meat and putting them in pork buns to save costs. Also, it might be possible to create soy sauce with a chemical process involving salt, black human hair and water. Of course, these are just rumors since my dad has not seen these things firsthand; he only heard from his colleagues who have seen this firsthand and on the internet.</p>

<p>This seems kinda oppressive when the government has control over the wrong things. Loose on regulation and strong on control.</p>

<p>Oops, this seems really off topic.
There are pros and cons to each college system. The Ga Kao is a complete meritocracy since it disregards 12 years of public education and gives many people a blank slate. If a person decides to be motivated his/her last few years of high school, he/she still has a chance to go to a top college.<br>
For the top tiers in USA, it seems to be this continuation of events. These colleges want to see that you have been using your time wisely and that you have showed academic/extracurricular excellence for 4 years (This is a recent trend though).</p>

<p>Can we get on track please and stop blazing on China?</p>

<p>There is no use arguing which country is “better”, for everyone on this site is American. Sure there’s Chinese, Whites, Blacks, etc…but we all love this great nation.</p>

<p>Anyway, here’s my 2 cents.</p>

<p>I believe, at least from what I’ve heard and my experience, SATs/ACTs/SAT IIs/APs are a joke compared with the “Gao Kao” exam in China, as well as similar exams in other countries. I’m sure all of you are well-aware that…how should I say this, “Education Ranking” or whatever its called, is pretty low compared to other industrialized countries. High-school/College drop-out rates are alarmingly high for an industrialized nation and several national exams demonstrate that a large percentage of kids are incompetent compared to students from other nations—knowledge wise.</p>

<p>Sure, every nation has its handful of bright kids who will change the world, but as a whole, American students are behind on this global race. </p>

<p>Also, I believe that even the top Universities in China cannot be compared with the Ivies or even the top 25 colleges in the U.S. That is why so many students decide to study overseas- most are from extremely wealthy families. Not only do they receive a better education in a different nation, but they can also master foreign languages and gain a worldly perspective. Although times are changing, the government unfortunately still censors unmercifully.</p>

<p>The #1 difference in the education philosophy is the attitude towards it. </p>

<p>Preaching academics and cramming is the only way parents in China know to educate their children, so they subscribe to that method.</p>

<p>In America, parents are more inclined to let the child “explore” and do things their way, maybe with some guidance behind it. This is the “complete child” philosophy, which emphasizes extra curriculars, sports, and leadership.</p>

<p>Of course, there will be the extremes: the Chinese parents who put way too much pressure on their kids academically that they commit suicide or the American parents who don’t give a flying **** whose kids are dumber than a sack of doorknobs. </p>

<p>I don’t know how relevant this article is to this discussion, but I feel it’s a very informative one. [The</a> Wall Street Journal Classroom Edition](<a href=“WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights”>WSJ in Higher Education | Trusted News & Real-World Insights)</p>

<p>It seems that the parents in America are losing faith/willing to quit on their kids, which is frankly, unamerican in my opinion.</p>

<p>Heplayer92 is quite right here, only one thing “That is why so many students decide to study overseas- most are from extremely wealthy families.” That observation is simply not reflecting any fact. There are two types of guy go foreign country to study,

  1. Wealthy family, go England and Australia, … get those useless diploma and find themselves considered inferior after coming back to china. Since those European country diploma are proven to be useless now and cannot get you anywhere, the trend to go Europe is pretty much slow down if not to a completely stop.
  2. Countryman poor family, they choose to go American, simply to immigrate to America is way easier compared to get themselves into China’s big cities; of course, you get what you paid, their living standard would be like American, but they keep on brainwash themselves that it is OK, their wood structure is called “Mansion”, all kinds of ********. Those countryman get everything from China’s education system but hate China, in america, everyone is countryman so they simply feel comfortable.</p>

<p>There are pros and cons to each college system. The Ga Kao is a complete meritocracy since it disregards 12 years of public education and gives many people a blank slate. If a person decides to be motivated his/her last few years of high school, he/she still has a chance to go to a top college.
For the top tiers in USA, it seems to be this continuation of events. These colleges want to see that you have been using your time wisely and that you have showed academic/extracurricular excellence for 4 years (This is a recent trend though).

Also, gaoKao is the simplest way to prevent corruption in education, given everyone the same chance is important to maintain the stability in the society. You might from a countryman family, but Go through that test, you will be OK. The system has been in China for more than 1000 years, and proven to unify the society; Just look at those American Slum, there is no such thing in china at all, everyone has hope, so there would be less crime and people are always looking upward. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My suggestion would go china, feel our society, you will learn your lifetime lesson, American society sucks so much, violent, unfair, all kinds of corruption to each and every level, blacks and latino has no chance in their personal life. You might give me some extreme case, just look at Oakland, CA, then answer me how those black kids can grow in those school and between gun battle everyday.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I actually totally disagree with with what hlbb said about Go Kao is a better system. My father left Taiwan because of it. It forces students to memorize useless things just to pass the test. It takes a lot of creativity out of a person. It does not encourage students to think outside of a box, because what you need to do is to spit out exactly what the test is looking for.</p>

<p>To say it is a fair system is also false. As we all know in this country, wealthier families could afford tutors for SATs, and we have seen those students do better than other less well off students. I am sure it is the same in China. </p>

<p>It is also false that there is no corruption or violence, or poverty in China. If that’s the case, then there wouldn’t be boat load of Chinese risking their lifes to come to the US. </p>

<p>There are good and bad in every society and educaitonal system. Having experienced both Chinese and American education, I prefer American’s system. The children are allowed to experienment and try out new ideas, especially in some private schools. When my D1 was in first grade, the kids became interested in the Egyptian culture because of their lunch aide. When the teachers found ut, they got together and re-designed the whole curriculum centered around Egypt - English, social studies, science, math. They took field trips to NYC museums. It was a wonderful way for those kids to learn.</p>

<p>If we are talking about international comparisons of corruption, it’s best to look at a comprehensive study of that issue. </p>

<p>[GCR</a> 2008/gcr/publications](<a href=“http://www.transparency.org/publications/gcr/gcr_2008]GCR”>http://www.transparency.org/publications/gcr/gcr_2008)</p>

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<p>I have been to Shanghai and many other major cities in China as well as some rural areas, and yes America has a lot of crime compared to China. However, China is just as bad, if not worse, offenders of the other issues you have with America.</p>

<p>1) Unfair - Life anywhere is unfair. Look at all the rural peasants in China who have virtually no hope of living a wealthy lifestyle versus the son of a rich businessman in Beijing.</p>

<p>2) Corruption - Chinese government officials are incredibly corrupt. To start a legitimate business requires many bribes to officials. Often times officials will take a bribe over the direct well being of those they are serving. It has gotten so bad that sometimes Beijing has no control over provincial or metropolitan governments. Although Beijing has one policy, a local government would simply ignore that policy for self gain.</p>

<p>you can leave your comments on [url=<a href=“http://www.sina.com.cn”>http://www.sina.com.cn</a>]</p>

<p>I’ve been to China before (Beijing specifically) and just the atmosphere and the attitudes of the people make the environment feel incredibly harsh. Hell, when I was trying to catch an elevator, a woman kept pressing the “close door” button, preventing me from getting on the elevator. I realize this is an isolated incident, but just spend some time in China and you’ll realize what I’m talking about (you’ll quickly notice how there are soldiers with machine guns standing at nearly every intersection - yikes!). Comparing China to the US or even Taiwan (I’ve been to Taipei) makes me grateful that I’m in America.</p>

<p>I’m pretty sure the 3/5 is for ALL colleges. So that’s actually a little lower than the US, where the overall college acceptance rate is 70%.</p>

<p>1) Unfair - Life anywhere is unfair. Look at all the rural peasants in China who have virtually no hope of living a wealthy lifestyle versus the son of a rich businessman in Beijing.


&lt;p&gt;2) Corruption - Chinese government officials are incredibly corrupt. To start a legitimate business requires many bribes to officials. Often times officials will take a bribe over the direct well being of those they are serving. It has gotten so bad that sometimes Beijing has no control over provincial or metropolitan governments. Although Beijing has one policy, a local government would simply ignore that policy for self gain.
~~~~~~~~ I live at Bay area, pay 50% of my income as tax, no benefit; my friend live in Shanghai, pay 20% of their income as tax, lots of benefit; not to mention the difference in education and infrastructure which are provided by the tax money. My observation is US is much more corrupted to CHINA, in US you can take money from business owner, try that in CHINA, if you take more than 250K USD, that will bring you to death sentence. To open a business in CHINA is not what you said, you should stop the propoganda, not because American are stupid and your propoganda will work that means you would have to use them, after all, to fool American people, lower their IQ in the long run hurt your own country.&lt;/p&gt;

<p>After reading your posts, I have to wonder why are you living in the US ? Why pay 50% of your income without any benefits?</p>