<p>I was wondering, are there many (or at least a vast minority) of applicants who had 2300+ on the SATs and SAT IIs and solid (not national competition quality) extra curriculars who have been rejected across the board to HYPMS? Really, it seems like those applicants should at least get into one of them, but are the odds high that such an applicant would be rejected flat out to all five?</p>
<p>I think that once an applicant gets into that competitive range academically, the schools then scrutinize the rest of their application. I dont think its unusual at all for such an applicant to be rejected if they dont offer something interesting beyond the test scores, simply because these schools have SO many applicants to choose from.</p>
<p>Yes, the vast majority of those you describe get rejected from HYPS. Think about it, with 40% being recruited athletes, URMs and legacies, the true acceptance rate is about 3% for the unhooked.</p>
<p>^ ouch. that sucks! Good luck.</p>
<p>Yeah SATs are not even close to everything, especially with HYPMS. It's more about other things...</p>
<p>I know that there is more than SATs, but there are only about 6000ish 2300+ SAT scorers for a particular class of 20xx (college board releases this information every year). Not all of those 2300+ scorers will be applying to all five schools, and some will not apply to any of the five. Therefore, I would think that this wouldn't be so common but I don't exactly know for sure. And I call bull on the 40% being URM/athlete at HYPS. Where did you get that information? Also, I did specify that such a 2300+ applicant would have solid extracurriculars beyond joining a couple of clubs or playing a varsity sport. So if an applicant had a solid set of extracurriculars beyond the norm but not on the scale of national/international competitions and had 2300+ SAT and SAT IIs, and a decent amount of AP classes with good scores, would it be likely for such an applicant to be rejected to all HYPMS colleges?</p>
<p>Although the number of 2300+ SAT applicants is few, it's not considered that huge of an achievement. High scores are obviously important, but people that score that high aren't any more qualified for a spot at a top college. Like I said, other achievements are valued more.</p>
<p>That said, if someone has a 2300 SAT with solid SAT IIs, grades, and EC's, and if he is able to set himself apart from other applicants in his essay, I'd say his chances are good anywhere.</p>
<p>Here's a quote from a recent article:</p>
<p>Michele Hernandez, nationally known private college admissions consultant located in Vermont. Author of the book A is Admissions: The Insider's Guide to Getting into the Ivy League and Other Top Colleges and former admissions officer at Dartmouth College</p>
<p>40 percent of every Ivy League school is filled up with special cases: athletes, minorities, low-income, legacies or development cases. Theyre tagged, and schools lower the admissions standards a lot for those kids. So you got to know how to use those tags to your advantage. If youre a legacy and you apply early to the school, youve got a 50 percent better chance of getting in.</p>
<p>Here's a link to the whole article:</p>
<p>Dirty</a> Secrets of College Admissions - The Daily Beast</p>
<p>The breakdown is:</p>
<p>17% recruited athletes
20% URMs
10% plus legacies</p>
<p>And of course there's overlap. These are widely published stats.</p>
<p>When you take out those folks you understand that 2300 is probably right at the average or maybe below for unhooked applicants at HYPS, the vast majority will not get in. I haven't looked at their averages lately but the overall average at Dartmouth is 2200 so the unhooked at the mid level ivies is close to 2300.</p>
<p>Then you have to look at GPA because the top 5% or 10% thing is a myth at those schools, the unhooked are mostly top 2 in class.</p>
<p>But then again,</p>
<p>Academic</a> Index: The AI Rank Explained</p>
<p>i dunno. Don't worry about it. Que ser</p>
<p>hmom5: thanks for the link and reference; I think I might pick that book up for a Sunday read :-) . However, I am still a bit skeptical. On Princeton's website, it documents the % accepted for 2300-2400 as 28%. If it is 28% at Princeton and we assume it is similar at other schools (I know for MIT if your CR is 750-800 is somewhere in the high 20s for percent admitted), I would think that the majority of 2300+ applicants would not be rejected across the board from HYPMS. Also, I highly doubt that 28ish% students are not the same students who are accepted from HYPMS, therefore there would be some distribution. So although I do not doubt that there are a handful of 2300+ scorers who are rejected across the board, I am not quite sure if I could say this is for the majority. Also, I did specify vast minority, not majority, meaning that there is a significant minority of 2300+ scorers who are rejected, not the majority. I do not think that I can believe that the majority of 2300+ scorers are rejected, but I am wondering as to how much of a minority is there of 2300+ rejects. Remember, I am not talking about rejection from just one out of HYPMS, I am talking about a rejection from all.</p>
<p>I'm surprised at the 28% figure at Princeton but maybe they are concentrated at the top. Here are Brown's numbers, and I think we can all agree Brown is considerably less selective:</p>
<p>Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures</p>
<p>I haven't done the research in years, but I can tell you as a parent of a 2330 and a 2380 at schools where the average SAT scores are about 2100, I've seen a ton of 2300's not get into any ivy, much less HYPS.</p>
<p>First, I think there is tremendous overlap in who these schools want. Second, I think a 2300 white/Asian kid from a well represented state faces a whole different ball game than a 2300 from less represented states and countries.</p>
<p>These schools are so focused on building classes with representation from every state, public and private schools, many countries, many ethnicity's and on and on even beyond the 40% who are hooked. So the requirements are far from the same across the board. </p>
<p>While I think it would be hard for a kid from rural South Dakota with a 2300 to be rejected from all, most 2300's from NYC, Boston, SF and Hong Kong will be rejected by all.</p>
<p>There really is no line you can reach in SATs to ensure admission, you'll always be in competition.</p>
<p>Smallz, we've already established that we are referring to applicants with not only stellar SAT scores but also a solid rest of the package.</p>
<p>hmom: where did your kids end up being accepted to? Sadly I am from an area around one of the places where you listed there would be the most rejections, and I do agree, geography and such is a key factor in swaying admissions decisions. However, I really can't see there being that great of an overlap. That 28% will not be the same 28% from another school, and I cannot see even 10% being accepted from three or more of the HYPMS schools. It would be nice to find statistics on overlapping admissions or at least find some stats on rejections from HYPMS across the board w/ 2300+ SATs.</p>
<p>Cicero, many do not agree with me on this, but I think today you need to get strategic. You need to consider who your direct competition is. First from your school and next from your area in general. My kids were NYC private school kids, one of the most competitive pools there is. Their schools were filled with legacies and development kids and some of the Country's top minority candidates.</p>
<p>My oldest, the 2330 wanted MIT or Caltech and didn't get into either. He ended up at CMU and is now at MIT in grad school.</p>
<p>DS2 is a freshman at Dartmouth. While he also loved Princeton, the experience with DS1 and a good college counselor taught us a lot. We looked at the number of legacies and URMs just at his school who wanted P and we knew his chances were slim, even as val of the class. So he applied ED to Dartmouth where he is very happy.</p>
<p>We've had a few recent threads about this on the parent's board, but it's a game. If you are an upper middle class white or Asian applicant from an overrepresented place, you need a strategy IMO.</p>
<p>I think the main reason why a person with 2300+ may get rejected from all 5 is because each university's actions are independent of the others, so really if the applicant does not strive to set him/herself apart from everyone else and does not show strong demonstrated interest for the schools, it really would not be that surprising to see it happen.</p>
<p>I agree with the idea about developing a strategy by looking at the applicants in your school and area. What would you say about a competitive applicant in a not so competitive school that sends about 2-4 people to ivies + m + s each year in one of the most competitive states?</p>
<p>what's the point in obsessing over what-ifs? why not apply to all of the schools that are in your range that you want to go to and leave it in the colleges hands to decide?</p>
<p>if i spent my whole life in california, and went to a tough high school in Los Angeles, but moved to suburban Utah for my junior year, will I have better chances staying in utah for applications or moving back to california for senior year? the school in utah is not very competitive.</p>
<p>what would HYPMS want</p>
<p>Utah, hands down.</p>
<p>Cicero, it would depend on a lot of things. If you live in SF and you want Stanford and go to a school that rarely sends kids there, that would be very tough. You would be surrounded by legacies, then there's all the staff kids to accommodate....a meaningful strategy needs everything laid out.</p>
<p>The other thing I forgot to mention earlier is all 2300's are not equal. My DS1 had an 800 writing--useless--and a 730CR.</p>
<p>Each year my schools sends 1-2 students to HYPMS. Then, we send several students sometimes to the lower tier ivies, and maybe >20 are accepted to the upper tier but below HYPMS schools. We probably have four students, including me, that could get into HYPMS. But I have seen some very qualified students be rejected from all their top choices and some that have done nothing get into HYPMS.</p>
<p>Here is my situation that I have to mold my strategy around:
The valedictorian of the class is quite neurotic and has gone out and does as many extracurriculars as possible, none of which are amazing activities, but they look good on a college application. His brother was accepted to HYS (applied to HYPS) without any awards, but he had amazing recommendations and a plethora of extracurriculars. The current valedictorian, like his brother, has his ECs spread out all over the place with no clear direction, but he is not very likely to receive good recommendations (he is a jerk and teachers don't exactly like him). His SAT scores are in the mid-upper 2200s.</p>
<p>I am second in the class, and historically, in my school at least, applicants that are second or third in the class will usually do better than the valedictorian in college admissions. My ECs are very focused and show dedication, but they do not include "community service" trips to third world countries. I have higher SAT scores (low-mid 2300s) and have one teacher who will give me an excellent recommendation and another who will be able to give me a glowing one. I have gone beyond the school curriculum and have self studied some AP classes and have been taking advanced math courses. Like the valedictorian, I don't have many awards, the biggest one that I have so far in high school is 2x National Latin Exam summa cum laude.</p>
<p>The person who is third in the class is the "perfect student" type, but has not done much EC wise. However, she'll probably get amazing recommendations and has upper 2200s for SAT scores. Most of her extracurriculars revolve around community service, but not on the level of the valedictorian; she hasn't dished out any money to go to third world countries. Like all of us, she doesn't really have any big awards.</p>
<p>The last applicant who is competitive for HYPMS colleges, fourth in the class, has upper 2300s for SAT scores, but nearly no extracurriculars. He will receive amazing recommendations and probably will get National Merit Scholar Semifinalist (the rest of us are probably NMS Commended).</p>
<p>Now I don't think that all of the applicants are applying to all HYPMS schools. I know that the valedictorian is applying to HYS, and the person who is third in the class will probably apply at most to just HYP if not just H. The kid who is fourth will probably apply to HYPMS. Now I have a plan of what to do over the summer (some more math classes, research internship, and I have a programming project that I'm going to start working on), and I think that everyone else is keeping this summer pretty clear of activities. What do you think about that situation?</p>