<p>The standard advice to parents is to make sure that your kids pick a career where you won’t have to be embarrassed when you tell people what they are doing. Because of course- that’s the most important thing.</p>
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Somebody posted on another thread that all incoming students for all 8 Ivies each year are about 46k students. Of course, only a fraction of such Ivy league students apply to med school. But this number could help us to get a feel about the challenging level of med school admission.</p>
<p>With the exception of “larger” Ivies (like Cornel and possibly to a smaller extent, Penn), maybe at most likely 15% (or slightly more) of them eventually apply to med school. (BTW, likely more join any kind of finance industry. In one very good year, I heard almost 40% of Princeton tigers went that way. In a “bad” year, still likely 25-30%, I think. Some even claims that the main benefit of going to such a school is to help you get into that “lucrative” industry, rather than to become an academic star in a grad school eventually. If the existence of elite colleges is to help select such students, the old day Princeton admission dean (Faragon?) might have his point when he tended to choose a particular “types” for their incoming class. (Sorry, I do have some negative “attitude” toward those youngsters who are so eager to join the Wall Street - I admit it is a personal bias at work.)</p>
<p>Thus, many applicants are graduated from other colleges than “peer schools”.</p>
<p>Another phenomenon is that there is a huge in-state preference in med school admission at play there. So, a strong student from a flagship state university is likely not at a disadvantage, especially when applying to public med schools in his/her state. Remember that there are more students who are in public med school than in private med school.</p>
<p>Also, for whatever the reason it maybe, it appears that those “cute ECs” that are highly valued in the college application cycle, which the parents/families can “help with” since their child’s birth due to their unequal levels of resources, all of a sudden are not that important any more. Those brainy type or grinder types finally have their days - considering the percentage of such med school students in each incoming class - e.g., the so called “about 16% ceiling” does not exist any more especially at a top research med school - at one particular med school which really values research, it could reach almost 35-40% for that segment of students. But the main stream med schools whose main mission is to produce the primary care may be more holistic in selecting their incoming class, I think . (Research experience still carries some weight though, so having a dad/mom/extended family in this type of work may still help due to their connections.)</p>
<p>@T26E4 A higher % of MCAT takers at peer schools end up at med school compared to the % of MCAT takers at non peer schools. I don’t think this is a debate. If someone can prove me wrong I’ll buy them lunch. I don’t take many “pre-med” teens seriously and I’m ever more inclined to dismiss them if they’re headed to or at a non peer school. It doesn’t mean the student is doomed, it’s just the % makes it more unlikely. Obviously a bio dept at big public U is going to have a fair share of students to go on to med school, but there’s no question it’s a smaller % of the class than at a highly selective college.</p>
<p>Wrt medical school admissions - </p>
<p>I think I would feel more comfortable comparing the odds of an honors college student at a big state university against the odds of a similar student at an elite school. Statistics for a state school taken as a whole might be very different from statistics for students admitted to an honors college or given merit aid.</p>
<p>I would guess that many, many parents on this board in fact would love to get their hands on this type of information. At either type of school, I would bet on the student who recognizes the importance of strategy in choosing classes, majors, and even professors from the get-go.</p>
<p>After having watched lots of pre-med students in honors/AP classes at our high school, I would bet on better medical school admissions odds among those choosing state school honors programs. However, I would bet on better success in gaining investment banking internships on those attending elite schools. </p>
<p>If they really crave the data you can pay for a custom report from the AAMC. But just by going what data is avail, I can safely stand by what I said about.</p>
<p>Does AAMC really break down the data to account for entering stats as well as by school? If so, that would seem to be news for many on this board. Is there anyone who has actually paid for this report, who can vouch for whether or not it provides this type of information? I would not pay for a report, since neither of my own has ever expressed any interest whatsoever in applying to medical school (each took many of the pre-req’s, though, at least the ones required of engineers and physical science majors) and in any case, both have already graduated.</p>
<p>I will say that as someone who has IRL walked the walk of sending a student to an honors college that the intro STEM classes were done very, very well, and I would not advise an aspiring pre-med to go to an elite solely to get better pre-med pre-req’s in preparation for the MCAT, although there might be other reasons for not taking the honors college/merit money route. </p>
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<p>There’s also the matter of PAYING for four years of medical school. The reason a lot of serious pre-meds go the public honors college route is to save money for medical school, which makes the cost of the average undergraduate degree look like chump change. </p>
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<p><a href=“http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/medical-student-section/advocacy-policy/medical-student-debt/background.page”>http://www.ama-assn.org//ama/pub/about-ama/our-people/member-groups-sections/medical-student-section/advocacy-policy/medical-student-debt/background.page</a></p>
<p>And medicine is not the automatic ticket to the gravy train that it may have been a generation or two ago. </p>
<p>Ellen3, I am glad my riff-raff kid didn’t bump into your kid at their private school. Yes, my kid had free/reduced lunch…came from a home with a single unwed mom. No savings, and yeah, I didn’t go to her public school to be “involved.” I didn’t have to…her public school was fine, my riff-raff kid graduated with an IB diploma and 7 AP’s without me baking brownies and going to PTA meetings. She then went to the best tippy top LAC and graduated with one of those degrees you say you would be embarrassed to say your kid had…Classics. I am sorry, she has completed her second year of med school now probably got in cuz they needed to balance out your type with some riff-raff. That is the medschool she chose out of 9 acceptances. Yep. But please feel good about yourself that your kid didn’t have to walk the hallways with my riff-raff. </p>
<p>Carry on with your high brow, pompous posts.</p>
<p>I agree, frazzled. And some of the top programs in certain pre-med areas (chemistry, biology, etc.) are at state schools.</p>
<p>GA, your daughter sounds awesome. As a former Classics major, I am not surprised by your story- my cohort included people who went to divinity school, MBA’s, lawyers, and several MD’s (with a couple of MD/PhD’s in the group). You are justifiably proud of her!!!</p>
<p>Blossom, Classic majors are awesome! And yes, they all go on to productive careers. :"> </p>
<p>@frazzled2thecore It’s wonderful that your child had a great experience at a public honors program. That said, you really can’t speak on how it compares to more selective privates because it doesn’t appear that you have any experience with them. Yes, detailed reports are customizable.</p>
<p>@LucieTheLakie I don’t know anyone who let their child attend a less prestigious undergrad to save money towards med school. Med school is so far from a given that you’d be penny wise and pound foolish to “save” money going to a less prestigious undergrad. Furthermore, nobody is sending their kids to less competitive undergrads to get higher GPAs. These things only exist in theory on message boards.</p>
<p><em>starts a slow clap</em></p>
<p>I’m starting to think that a certain poster
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<p>@ellen3</p>
<p>Actually, I DO have experience with “more selective privates” since I sent a second child to one of those. Both kids had all but identical stats by the end of high school, although they did have somewhat different sets of awards and honors. Both took the intro classes taken by engineering and physical science majors as well as pre-meds ,although they did add intro comp sci and additional calc classes through diff eq to the mix, one at an honors college, and one at the selective private. And, yes, they have compared experiences with each other and with friends at various schools. </p>
<p>we don’t have post numbers, but from the OP about 3 posts up, she doesn’t know crap about UG and then med school. </p>
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A student or parents can have one experience (honor program at a state school) or the other (selective/elite school.) We happen to have the latter experience but do not have the former one.</p>
<p>But I think that, as it is said: there are multiple roads to the Rome. Each family chooses what they are capable of doing and/or are willing to do.</p>
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<p>This poster has all the markings of a ■■■■■…obstinate positions, refusal to substantiate claims, rude tone of voice to others on this site. I can’t put my finger on where I’ve heard this “voice” before but I am 100% sure this is not a new poster.</p>
<p>Bingo, Sally. Yet I still let the ■■■■■ yap and I respond. Where is “Ellen3?” </p>
<p>A bored librarian somewhere, maybe…? Hehe </p>