Is it necessary to have an expensive instrument?

College Majors Music Major
21

<p>I'll be even more candid. I would NOT spend $30,000 on an instrument for a student who didn't intend to pursue playing it as a career. Sorry...that's just too much money. I would not have purchased my daughter's instruments for the full retail price...we just happened to hit it lucky with our purchases for her. BUT if they had cost the retail cost...NOPE. She does this for fun...not as a profession. At full cost, her two instruments would have cost double what we spent on them.</p>

<p>Agreed with the above poster, however. No student should be "fighting" with their instrument to produce a sound. DD was using borrowed (and BAD) English horns that simply didn't play when she blew into them. Thus...the need for us to purchase one for her. She was using it very frequently. BUT for full retail price...well...it would NOT have happened.</p>

22

<p>I agree that it is not reasonable to pay $30K for an instrument if the person is not committed to a career. To be honest, I would be hard pressed to provide that for my son even though he is committed to being a professional. If he wants an instrument in that price range, he is going to have to figure out how to pay for it. That being said, people often comment that his current instrument sounds like it costs that much even though we didn't pay that much.</p>

23

<p>I have been following this with interest and all I can say is that I'm glad my son carries his intrument around in his throat!</p>

24

<p>
[quote]
No student should be "fighting" with their instrument to produce a sound.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, I agree. Makes sense. But if the OP's daughter is "fighting" a $15k cello, something is wrong somewhere. I don't know much about cellos, but surely a $15k cello isn't a beginner model? We aren't talking about a plastic clarinet versus wood one here.</p>

<p>When S was considering purchasing a new horn, he asked advice from someone he trusted and respected. The teacher told him that a good hornist can make any horn sound good, and too much effort and attention was being paid to getting the "right one." Then he took S's horn and played a few notes, and said, "I changed my mind." :)</p>

<p>My point being, there is a lot of grey area between a truly bad instrument and having to have exactly the perfect model for me. Having a teacher play your current instrument (or better yet, several teachers) and give his/their honest opinion will clue you into where in that grey area you are. If your teachers don't sound any better than you do, it's probably the instrument.</p>

25

<p>Some cellos are much harder to play, even when the sound is good. One problematic issue is the effort it takes with the hands and arms to "control" and coax the sound. This can lead to overuse problems, injuries, and/or technical adjustments. An ergonomically efficient instrument will maximize effort and time spent. </p>

<p>A more mature cellist (or any other kind of instrument) will develop a keener sense of sound and goals. What appeals to a younger, beginning student may be more cosmetic that an acoustical aesthetic preference or an awareness of technical efficiency. </p>

<p>You may not need to spend 30K for a cello, but it sounds like she may need a different instrument. Good luck.</p>

26

<p>Just wondering- when did your daughter begin to develop problems with her cello? Or does she have problems with it? If not, and the teacher is just suggesting that a more expensive model could help her progress further/faster, then I think it's time to sit down and have a real honest talk with the teacher. Does she even know that your daughter is not thinking of pursuing music as a career? My D is a singer, but before she made the change, she was a serious and very gifted flutist. The time came to move her to a better instrument as she had made a quantum leap from " student" level to "conservatory" level- I began looking on line and found that there were a number of web sites dedicated to the sale of used instruments. We were lucky to find a graduate student who had decided not to continue any further with her music study, but who wanted to enable another student to pursue study with an excellent matched set of a flute and piccolo. She sent the instruments to us on a trial basis, my daughter tried them out, we had them checked by her teacher and a repair shop with a great reputation and completed the deal- costing us a small fraction of what such instruments would have run new or even through the shop that had certified these. Yes, we were lucky and it might not go as smoothly for someone else, but that was our experience. And I have to think that a cello costing $15K can't exactly be junk...</p>

27

<p>mezzo --</p>

<ol>
<li><p>String instruments are more expensive than flutes - even gold ones!</p></li>
<li><p>Often it is the oldest used string instrument which sounds the most beautiful (e.g., stradavarius, guarnieri) and fetch the highest prices. Unfortunately, the term "used" really doesn't apply to string instruments. A decent new or used violin or viola, with rare exceptions, like Violadad's son's, will start at around $10,000. I don't know the cello market as well, but I imagine it's about the same. String playing is an expensive habit! Strings, sound posts, bridges, etc. must be replaced/repaired regularly and are not cheap either. Oh well, luckily we love the sound!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Our local violin shop loaned my son a really fabulous and very expensive instrument for a couple of months last year. After that, he wanted a new violin. We looked very hard last spring/summer. He tried a lot of violins and the only ones he liked better than his $20,000 one were way too expensive for us ($75K-$100K). Those violins were definitely in a different category in terms of sound production, smootheness across the strings, etc. The ones in between didn't seem to make that much difference - the prices seemed to be in the maker's names more than in the sound until you were spending a ton. He's still unsatisfied with his so we'll be looking again this summer, but it's a real hunt. I wish we could find a great Chinese one like Violadad's son's - then we could pay some tuition with the difference. He might have to wait to have an income (we hope!) to get a new one that he likes. He does say that his violin is about average price for a conservatory student. A few have very fancy ones, but most don't.</p>

28

<p>I agree that spending a lot of money on an instrument if the student isn't committed to music as a profession is probably not a good investment, unless you can afford it and simply want to do Usually, when a student gets to the point of "needing" a better quality instrument, they know what they need and want. Also the higher level professional instruments seem to require more skill to play. When S2 went from his intermediate sax to the professional one, he said the intermediate sax was like playing a toy. He was able to get a beautiful sound from both instruments, and our repairman was able to adjust the intermediate horn to play more like the expensive one. (He leaves it at home, which saves us the cost of a plane ticket for his good instrument when he comes home for break.) </p>

<p>I suppose the mouthpiece is the sax equivalent of the bow. We have spent not only a small fortune (much smaller than the horn itself/much more than reeds and other accessories) on mouthpieces. I have actually sat listening (and having to provide input) on mouthpieces for more time than for instruments. And sometimes the differences are extremely small.</p>

29

<p>Can't comment as to cello - but, I did want to affirm what Stringfollies says about violins.
I don't intend the following comments to answer the question of "necessity of expensive instrument", lots of good comments previously on that - just observation.</p>

<p>The quality (and all too often related expense) of violins going off to music school and conservatory is often quite high. I've known a number of the instruments kids have taken to NEC, CIM, Oberlin, Northwestern, IU, etc in the last 10 or so years. In that group of both modern and older instruments, many were purchased for around $20,000 and I know several were valued at over $50,000. (I must add that no one in my family left for conservatory with an instrument in that highest price range!) </p>

<p>I've been in Chicago violin shops when college students from places like University of Illinois and Illinois Wesleyan (with parents and teacher - serious intent!) were shopping for fine instruments. I remember specifically one young person and family trying violins at around $50,000 - and ultimately purchasing one. </p>

<p>I've known students who have taken out loans to purchase violins in the $20,000 - $30,000 range. No comment on the wisdom of this - I just know it's done.</p>

<p>As Stringfollies notes, some students receive fine instruments on loan. The trouble with this is that the instrument may be "recalled" by its owner without warning and student is left with nothing. </p>

<p>Some fine violins are loaned for specific performances or competitions. Even some music schools do this. Great while you've got it, I guess!</p>

<p>Finally, the discussion doesn't necessarily end at college! It's not uncommon for violinists to be offered symphony jobs with the stipulation that they obtain a better instrument.</p>

<p>I don't intend any of the above comments to be definitive of all violinists experiences attending music school! Ultimately, each family is going to have to decide with input from the teachers what is in their student's interest and range of possibilities.</p>

<p>Quite a discussion above! Interesting how each instrument group seems to have its own protocol and expectations for aquisition!!</p>

30

<p>DS is a cellist who has played since fourth grade. His first full-size cello was of the mass-produced student variety. Since he didn't seem to have greater ambitions than playing in his school orchestra, it seemed fine. </p>

<p>When his abilities improved to the point that his teacher considered him a viable candidate for conservatory study, he was advised to get a new instrument that would enable him to play more challenging repertoire with greater ease - that is, to get an instrument he would not have to fight with to get the desired sound. And so, we went shopping. </p>

<p>DS tried several cello bow combinations and happily found a suitable musical partner for this stage of his development. We both knew it when he first drew the bow across its strings - the warmth in tone, the ease with which he could shift were just what he was looking for. No doubt, he sounded much better. And it was the least expensive of the instruments presented to him by our local luthier - about $5000. His teacher and he both agreed that the more costly cellos just didn't work for him. He's attended master classes where the instructors have complimented him on the instrument's sound. He's thus far been accepted to two conservatories.</p>

<p>He has tried other instruments (friends', teachers') and is still quite enamored of his cello, although he has upgraded the strings and is looking into acquiring a new bow before heading off to college in the fall. He knows he may have to upgrade to a different instrument in the next few years, but for now what he has seems to work quite well for him.</p>

<p>You don't have to break the bank, but if music is a priority in your child's life, then it is worthwhile to invest in a quality instrument.</p>

31

<p>With cellos, basically those priced between 20K and 100K are a crap shoot. My son has played 50K cellos that he doesn't like nearly as much as his 20K instrument. He also has a fabulous modern bow. (He says that other students in his studio have "bow envy":) Unlike wind instruments, a higher quality stringed instrument is usually easier to play, not more difficult. Setup on a stringed instrument is also critical. Especially on the cello, bridge height needs to be checked by a good luthier. Some cellos need to switch out bridges for winter and summer. In the summer humidity the cello may swell enough to make the bridge to high and increasing the difficulty. Then in the winter dryness, the bridge may end up being too low. Some cellists have a winter and a summer bridge. Cellists who are having some difficulty with an instrument should have the bridge height checked.</p>

32

<p>Thanks again for your inputs. But I think I have to clarify a few things. The cello my D has now is a decent cello, and she does not have to "fight" to make good sounds with that cello, and it does not have a problem to make sounds. Every cello has their unique color, and I think her teacher thought that the cello she recommended to buy sounds better than the one she has now. My D is an advanced player for her age, not a prodigy, but many of her orchestra string players has "better" instuments already(probably not 50K though...), and her teacher thought that it might be the right time to look at a better sound cello. </p>

<p>And, many of you said that if my D is not pursuing music as her career it is not worth it, but what I meant was it is uncertain that she will pursue music as her career or not. It does not mean she absolutely will not pursue a music degree. She may go to LAC and double major music with what she likes to study and later may continue to study music at a graduate school. Or she will be another profession but still study music outside of her career. I am certain that she will be enjoying to play cello rest of her life either she majors music or not. I think music should be a life long goal. Thank you for sharing your experiences.</p>

33

<p>Northwestern, I think most of us understood your situation. We were merely exploring "IF - THEN" scenarios. The beauty of a board like this! And sometimes we respond "generally" - so that other readers with similar questions might also benefit.</p>

<p>We all come from different backgrounds and experiences. To many of us, $30k is not an easy amount to come up with. For others, it's no biggee. (I remember being surprised at the number of folks who bought their teenagers cars, for example. Not something we could consider.) </p>

<p>I was the poster who made the "fighting" comment. I didn't think your D was fighting her instrument. I was merely responding to the idea that if a student WAS fighting an instrument, then it would be time to change. But that I didn't think that would be the case with a $15k instrument. (And in a situation where that were the case, then there were obviously other issues to explore.)</p>

<p>We can't make your decision for you, and I (for one) didn't intend to. We are only trying to give various perspectives. If you are comfortable with the idea, the price, the teacher, and the process, I'm sure your daughter won't be the only one with a cello of that quality. But neither should you feel that your daughter's future is doomed if you don't follow through. As you read on here, many students postpone upgrading until they are more mature players who know what they want and need, and are in a better position to buy wisely.</p>

<p>In our case, we were able to directly justify the cost of S's new (now former) instrument with the likely acceptances and scholarships he would get that would offset it, largely from the added confidence he would get playing on a responsive instrument.</p>

<p>My S played in a trio with a violinist whose instrument cost something like $50k. (They were fairly secretive about the price; afraid of theft, I think. But the mother hovered; continually afraid her D would damage or lose it.) The kids were in high school. The girl had planned to major in violin, but wasn't accepted at any of the conservatories she applied to. (She was quite good - concert master of our local youth orchestra; I don't know why she wasn't accepted.) She ended up going to school locally for violin, but several years into it, she switched her major to pharmacy. I know she will play violin for the rest of her life, and she is teaching privately along with her pharmacy career. If she didn't have an expensive instrument, I know her parents would have always wondered if it were their fault for not providing it. So they gave it their best shot. But I think she felt enormous pressure, and felt a lot of guilt/obligation to pursue music. My point is, even with an expensive instrument, there are no guarantees. If you are comfortable with buying your D a cello with "no strings attached" (for your daughter, not the cello!), go for it!</p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you decide, and good luck to your daughter!</p>

34

<p>I'll fall in behind binx. If money is not an object then by all means go for it, but I'm still of the mind that 30k is too much for even a serious avocational musician especially if the resources can be put to better use. </p>

<p>For a conservatory level aspirant (or even a student at that level of ability not anticipating a music career path), there are numerous associated costs involved: youth orchestra, summer immersion programs, private instruction, in some cases competition and expenses. It can add up quickly. Many families struggle with balancing the outlay (including the instrument) to promote a rounded development as opposed to focusing on only one or two aspects. </p>

<p>binx wrote:

[quote]
many students postpone upgrading until they are more mature players who know what they want and need, and are in a better position to buy wisely.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A valid point indeed. Those of us with dogs in the race have "kids" that have had the opportunity to play alongside a multitude of peers from a variety of backgrounds, and have most probably had their hands on and have played instruments that have graced some of the top orchestras in the country. They've seen, heard, and in many cases are familiar with a broad range of prices, makers, and purchase options. </p>

<p>We had to balance resources. I consistently asked my son if his instrument at the time was adequate, and I confirmed his response by frank and pointed questions directed to his instructor(s) and chamber coaches. When it was time to upgrade, we did it, but we did it knowing what was out there and at what cost.</p>

<p>The instrument does not make the musician, nor vice versa. It is a tool, albeit a very important one. But unlike chef's knives or professional tradesmen's tools, there is a great disparity in the price range, particularly for stringed instruments.</p>

<p>It's a personal decision. Please proceed from the most informed standpoint possible.</p>

<p>Good luck to you both.</p>

35

<p>When I read threads like this and any "Flying" threads I thank the Muses that my D plays clarinets where top of the line professional production Bb instruments don't crack the $5K mark and the case, even a double one, has no problems as a carry on piece of luggage...</p>

<p>I know, the string parents are supressing a scream since they can spend that kind of money on a bow!</p>

36

<p>I dunno Zep... we haven't even addressed what an "adequate" case will set you back. ;)</p>

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<p>IZ - :D For the record, I always feel sorry for everybody who doesn't play my kids' instruments, just because I know my kids play the best ones. Just like I felt sorry for every mother of a girl when my S was born, and vice versa when my D was born!</p>

38

<p>cute binx! </p>

<p>One thing we became aware of when looking last year was that if you buy a good instrument with a good pedigree which doesn't have any major repairs (nor a lot of minor ones), it is actually a very good investment. Violins (particularly older ones) have increased in price way above inflation over a number of years. Especially the Modern Italian violins from the 1930's through the 1950's. So we figured that if our son ended up a pharmacist, e.g., and he needed money one day, he could sell it for more than we paid.</p>

<p>On that basis, we would buy my son a Strad if we could afford it. For us, it's simply the fact that the instruments we could afford right now (maybe up to $50K) haven't seemed much of an improvement over the one he has now and he won't accept that kind of financial outlay for a small improvement. And perhaps, the one he has now is actually so good that it will be worth $50K in 10 years. It's all about what your budget is. But don't do anything without good, neutral, professional advice!</p>

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<p>More than 30 years ago, H bought a used Selmer alto sax in a music store. It was a professional jazz instrument that had been sold by the retiring musician who was the original owner. He paid about $100 for it and only bought it to play around with as H is not a musician. It sat in closets for years and we had it repadded and cleaned for S1 who used it for 7 years. When S2 came along, he used it also, and we had it completely refurbished by our expert repairman instead of the local music store. As S2 was going off to college, we wanted to insure it and had it appraised--$7000!! Apparently it is a rare model in mint condition and silver to boot. Not that we're looking to sell, but it sure made our day.</p>

40

<p>I know professional cellists who make a living stringing together various gigs teaching and playing, and they have first rate instruments. They have made sacrifices in their life style, however, and their home is clearly not a budgetary priority for them. Whether this choice is a necessity or not, I do not know. But it was an eye opener for us, a reality check. Buying and supporting a six figure instrument is not for everyone!</p>