<p>My sons very good friend confided in him that he has verbally committed to two schools. We were both a bit shocked. I hear its less than 5% and more like 2% that a coach could withdraw an offer (normally for academic reasons when it happens) but he told my son he did that to be sure one of them goes through. I do not know his parents well enough to ask about it but my son even was very surprised and thinks this could really hurt him. i am told the recruiting world is much smaller than we realize. I don't know a lot about the process but the little I do know indicates that when a coach gives an athlete his word and the athlete takes that offer, that it is an agreement based on honor, integrity and trust.</p>
<p>My son was going to speak to him about it but is reluctant. Thoughts?</p>
<p>It is unethical and it probably will come back to bite him. I don’t see any reason for your son to become involved. There is no benefit to him to do so and it could cause him problems from doing so.</p>
<p>There’s a thread somewhere here where an athlete (I forget which sport) committed to a school and literally his phone blew up within either a few hours or the next 24 hours with coaches asking him if it was true. The point of the thread was that the athlete was surprised to realize how much the schools and coaches actually talk amongst themselves by text, email, rumor, etc. these days, particularly with the new technologies.</p>
<p>I would never risk it, and I have made sure son walks a fine line with all coaches to be completely honest in whatever he says to a coach. Don’t ever tell a coach their school is your 1st choice unless it’s true. Top choice also means, top choice, like you could see yourself going there. That’s just me, though. </p>
<p>I have heard lots of weird stories about what others do. At some camps, some of the boys seemed to be convinced that other boys were giving out inflated GPAs and scores for their initial cards just to make sure they got a better look from coaches. I didn’t see the logic in this because, in the end, it all falls out. But, I’ve heard these things.</p>
<p>Well as shocked as some of you may be, basketball players commit to as many schools as possible and then narrow it down to the ones worthwhile. In most cases it boil down to where I’m gonna get the best deal, now understand they come from a different mindset and generally deal with a different type of school and because basketball is a revenue sport the student athlete’s attendance is based on talent level that is tied to the program success, university visibility, coach retention, and athletic gear sales, network activity…i.e. $$$. So, coaches and the athletic department gets it from (football/basketball) now the other sports, because they are either funded by other programs/sources really can’t afford to have players in those sports jerking around with their decisions.</p>
<p>I’ll assume this is a D3/nesca/ivy league recruit, so at some point the recruit must apply to one school ED/SCEA. This is where this strategy will definitely run into problems if not before. As others have stated college coaches do talk among themselves about other recruits. A better strategy is to verbally commit to one school only but continue to communicate with the other school just in case things don’t work out. I also think your S is right about being reluctant to say anything about this to the other recruit.</p>
<p>kwalker203:
Please read through the numerous “athlete recruiting” discussions scattered through out these CC boards. You’ll read endless stories of heartbroken high school seniors and their parents, who, like you, thought a college coaches words were to be believed.</p>
<p>I agree with most of the comments. Maybe there is a need to have some clarification on terminology to answer the ethical question. I think it depends on the level - D3 vs other. Committing for a sport is only relevant in a paid to play situation, meaning you are getting part or all tuition paid because of athletics. I get that kids/parents want to feel proud of their achievements, but if it is a D3 situation, there is only a commit by the student-athlete with ED to apply to the school. There is no binding offer a coach can place beforehand. Just like a regular student applying ED. I think we should clarify (or develop a new status to describe D3 kids!) that someone is a D3 ED commit, at least that means something, if they were truly recruited. Until you hit that ED button on the application, there is no way to commit as there is no offer in the first place, other than the “pre-read” which is not binding like a scholarship offer is after signing day. I see no problem with a kid saying we’d love to play for you and commit to apply at many D3s simultaneously. What is the difference between that and any non student-athlete kid applying to multiple colleges and wanting to attend? If an athlete has several choices line up as a recruit where they receive support to apply, they can and should be committed to any or all to give the best chance of getting in. But, at some point, they need to use their ED wisely and honestly communicate that piece to all. But that doesn’t happen until a specific application deadline date. They can even say I will commit here with ED1 and if I fail go ED2 over here (once an ED1 falls through), committed to do both and discuss with both coaches, if able. In scholarship situations it is different, if you do not commit, they will give it to the next in line, so you can’t commit to two very easily at all. After signing day, forget it - you are committed!</p>
<p>My son ended up deciding to stay out of it (good idea) but did say he thought it wasn’t a great idea and posed the question “what if the coaches happen to know each other and talk” you might lose both spots scenario and left it at that.</p>
<p>I am sure there are heartbroken athletes every year. One of my sons lacrosse magazines did an article recently and for lacrosse at least, they said a verbal agreement is broken maybe at most 2-5% of the time and that its in a coaches best interest to keep his word otherwise the school gets a tarnished rep. So at least in lacrosse looks like verbal commitments are a pretty sound thing. I am not sure how other sports fare in this situation.</p>
<p>It’s often a small world, so these agreements are not as private as one might think. It might work out for the athlete, but it can also blow up if the word gets out. Don’t think you and your son are only ones to find out about this. </p>
<p>My oldest was a recruited athlete and so much were open secrets, since many of them knew each other. In his field, it would have been tough to keep this under wraps. Too many connections.</p>
<p>Definitely - open secrets. I agree it can be a very small world within the same sports, the same recruiting season. People can see with their own eyes at camps who is being talked to, and the boys talk amongst themselves, and the parents talk in the stands. I even had a parent of another player we know relay some behind the scenes comments she heard a coach saying about my son which ended up sending us in a particular direction with how we approached that school.</p>
<p>I definitely agree on you (kwalker) and your son probably not being the only ones who have heard of this yet. This other boy will be lucky if the other two coaches haven’t already talked.</p>
<p>Yes, it’s unethical. Although high profile recruits in revenue sports can get away with a lot more than recruits in other sports, a lack of integrity reflects badly on the athlete and his current team.</p>
<p>Although some recruits change their mind after giving a verbal commitment, I believe it is difficult to get away with having multiple commitments at the same time. The more prominent the recruit, the more quickly information about future plans gets shared.</p>
<p>Had to come back and tell you what happened yesterday. A good lesson to anyone even thinking of doing this-</p>
<p>His friend came over to see my son last night very upset. Apparently the coaches of the two schools in question attended some kind of coaches conference and know each other! They were talking about the 2014 recruits and this kids name came up…imagine their surprise when they both thought they had committed him! One of the coaches called him yesterday afternoon from the conference and told him he has to think about the commitment offer based on what he did. He said it is a very poor start to their relationship( could not agree more) and kept him hanging. He said he will be in touch be the end of the week to let him know and that he should also consider what he wants to do. He apparently scolded him and told him that is simply not done. The other school he said he has not heard from and is on pins and needles now.</p>
<p>Boy, that didn’t take long! I hope one of them will work out for him but more than that, I really hope he learned a valuable lesson.</p>
<p>The coaches all know eachother.
I wish that people (parents and teens) who ask things here took the advice from the experienced parents…
Often people ask for advice here and then refute what they are told…
(Not referring to you OP–just saying it happens often here)</p>
<p>Frankly I am glad this kid has learned this lesson now…imagine if he went on to behave like this as an adult and not be a man of his word.
It is possible that both coaches will pull out from the offer. It is still summer and the OVs haven’t happened and admissions admits…
This kid had better keep his options open</p>
<p>A HYP coach told me about a kid who did this–accepting a LL and then going elsewhere. The coach said that he’d never want this kid on his team…all of the coaches in the sport in the ivies knew about this kid now…and NOT in a good way.</p>
<p>OnePorkchop - thanks for your post on D3. I feel exactly as you do on this. </p>
<p>I was told by a D3 coach that there is no guarantees. This was after asking if the pre-read is a guarantee. But, my S has all the support a coach can give, thinks everything looks good, top recruit, etc. Complimentary - yes. Comforting - no.</p>
<p>My S will decide after his OV, if he wants to be a “D3 ED commit”. </p>
<p>I am so amazed with what my S has been catapulted into. He is basically interviewing for a job with every phone call he receives. Recruits are under a different kind of pressure with the college search and application process.</p>
<p>This pressure makes its quite easy to blow a conversation with a coach that may be going after it a bit hard. This boy may have found himself in a spot he couldn’t get out of and in young boy fashion played it off as a “plan” but, could have been more of a jam he found himself in.</p>
<p>IMO it kind of serves him right. Not only did he double commit but it sounds like he was bragging about it. On top of this issue those coaches will likely tell other coaches whom they know and that kid might have completely hurt his chances of being recruited. I am particularly sensitive to this issue as my sons coach put a lot of time and energy into recruiting a top player and he bailed on him after almost 9 months. Was not cool.</p>
<p>Agree, a kid taking a LL and not enrolling has screwed over the coach, the team and the kid that wanted that LL but there were no more. And while coaches do talk and it can be a small world, there are coaches out there that will stab each other, too. </p>
<p>Example, D’s coach told her of a kid that he recruited, agreed to commit and was issued a LL by admissions. This was in November. Winter break came and the coach went on a vacation, taking a break from the recruiting grind. When he returned in January, he found the kid had accepted a LL from another school and would not be attending. When the coach called the kid to get an explanation, he was told the rival coach continued to recruit him and told him that since he (the recruit) hadn’t heard from D’s coach over winter break, that probably meant he was no longer interested.</p>
<p>As fogfog said, the coaches all know eachother. A little bit of online research will bear this out. In kid’s sport we have learned that most of them have either/and:
-coached together,
-coached eachother
-competed in college together
-competed on nationals teams together
-all of the above.
A coach does not rise to this level without having ‘been’ at this level for awhile. Many of them are very good friends. In scheduling OVs a few have said - oh So-and-So? I’ll just give him a call - he a good guy.<br>
Really, they all know eachother.
Even my kid’s club coach on the west coast knows them all from years of competing and now years of coaching from club level up to Olympics.
They talk.</p>
<p>Is it wrong that I feel bad for the kid. I doubt that he did it out of intent to defraud; probably much more out of a sense of just wanting to cover all his bases. I’m also sorry he didn’t have a parent who was more involved or informed to keep up with what he was doing and make sure this didn’t happen. </p>
<p>I’ve been called a “helicopter parent” by some people who are then quick to tell me they applied to all their own colleges on their own with no help from their parents, sometimes their parents didn’t even know what schools they were applying to. I absolutely had almost no idea of how the whole process works before we were thrown into it (really, until last year, we weren’t even sure our player would be at recruiting level). I have also continued to meet parents who really have no idea what the process is all about.</p>
<p>However, this one was a mistake that definitely could have been avoided. I hope it works out for this kid. If I were his parent I’d be telling him to also call the other school and apologize for his error in judgment, immediately. The other school may not want him anymore but it may keep them from wanting to reach out to other coaches about what happened if they take pity on him as a 17 year old who had bad/no advice and simply made a short-term tactical error.</p>
<p>I think most adults want to believe that most 17 year olds usually make bad decisions because they haven’t thought things out well enough, not the reverse.</p>
<p>Is what he did unethical - yes IMHO. However, was he given proper guidance? I don’t know. </p>
<p>Do I feel bad for the young man? Yes, he possibly blew his chance and that is a tough lesson & high price to pay for any young person. I made numerous boneheaded mistakes when I was 17/18 years old, but nothing with these consequences. I hope he gets another shot at it and makes it right.</p>