Never trust a coach and other lessons learned

Athletic Recruits
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<p>Going through the recruiting process is different than just reading about it. What I will say here has probably been documented to some degree in other threads, but I thought it would be useful for parents of HS students.</p>

<p>Obviously the process is different for each person based on many factors. In our case, my S has great academics, and we were looking for either a ranked d3 team or lower d1 team in his sport. I decided to go regular decision because I wanted to see what merit scholarships and FA would be, before making a final school decision.</p>

<p>Here are some things we learned:</p>

<p>Never trust a coach: This may be a little harsh, but we had two coaches misrepresent themselves to us. One promised my S he would support him in admissions, and did not. The other insisted the recruits for the year would be capped during ED. In both cases the coaches actions were not consistent with what they said.</p>

<p>Know your place: Recruiting is all about supply and demand. How desirable is the recruit to the coach, and what other options do you have. Be brutally honest about how high a recruit you are for a given team. Look at the current roster: how highly rated were the current team members when they came out of HS? What seniors are graduating? What holes in the roster need to be filled?</p>

<p>Coach interest: it may be very high....until another, better recruit comes along. You may not know this, and you are surprised/confused when a coach's interest level changes all of a sudden. This happened to us.</p>

<p>Go early: The coach's job is to fill the roster with the best possible recruits. They really want to lock up kids via early decision. If you decide to go RD, you can easily lose the coaches support for any number of reasons. If you are reasonably sure you want to go to a school, commit ED.</p>

<p>Go RD: You definitely have the possibility of losing some schools via RD, but in the end you will have more choices. You can see how the rosters have filled out and commit based on knowing the incoming freshman class and your spot on the "pecking order". You also get to see how much money you are offered at different schools. At schools where you are in demand, the coaches may be able to work behind the scenes to get you a better package (they probably will not admit to that), </p>

<p>In the end, I think the best thing to do is to take the emotion out of the whole process. This is a very hard thing to do, but will serve you best in the long run. Also look at a lot of schools; don't unnecessarily limit yourself. In our case, the final two schools on my S's list were not even on the radar at the start of the whole process.</p>

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<p>Having gone through the process, it’s very difficult to come up with definites on it. Go ED and the coach knows he’s got you. Watch that interest drop the minute you let him know. He’s out to hunt down the ones still loose and your kid is now a given. If he can get in ED without the athletic push, he won’t get it unless he is a superstar, and he is is a superstar, you won 't be going through the crap that those who whose kids are good but are not way up there. </p>

<p>You are right about the coaches. And the schools. One dropped my kid’s sport mid year, yes, the entire program with no warning. A coach left the school at another. We found out through the news, not him. </p>

<p>It’s a very nerve wracking experience, IMO.</p>

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<p>Re: Never trust a coach</p>

<p>In the words of Vladimir Lenin: “doveryai, no proveryai”</p>

<p>Or, as Ronald Reagan said in his translation of this Russian proverb: “trust, but verify”</p>

<p>Most coaches will be mostly honest most of the time. It’s a good idea to talk to people who’ve already been through the process. If possible, try to find and talk to as many prior recruits as you can, including some who landed elsewhere.</p>

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<p>Golden advice for sure Xwords59. Your experiences are very similar to ours a few years ago. </p>

<p>I would add to always look at a recruiting situation through the coaches eyes. The coaches job is simple. He wants to bring in the best athlete possible that he can get through Admission. In the following years, his job is bring in a better recruit every year at your son’s or daughters position. He wants competition for his starting team at every position. The people that understand this will be so much better off.</p>

<p>I had a conversation with my sister in law yesterday. My niece is dating a freshmen football player at a mid-major D1 school. He was redshirted this year but promised a future scholarship all during his recruiting process. During the recruiting process, they built his ego up to feel like he was an “all-world” football player. He just found out that his future scholarship is in jeopardy as the coach brought in two stud players at his position in the incoming class. He was offered a four year (significant) academic scholarship at a comparable school and a walk-on spot to their football that he did not take. While both schools are very good, the athletic and financial outcomes could have been vastly different had he understood the situation from a coaches perspective.</p>

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<p>However, and this must be remembered, coaches have reputations and once a coach gets a reputation for being a liar (like a certain coach in Providence, Rhode Island) that gets out very very fast and the high schools and clubs are quite well aware. So if a coach is purposefully misleading, he or she can try that a couple of times but then he or she will see her or his welcome worn out --and if that happens their career goes south too…</p>

<p>Conversely those coaches (and this is most of them) try their best not to mislead purposely–to be sure this is like buying a used car and emotion plays no role–but they are trying to be be fair-- it is to their own long term advantage to be so–not just bc they are good people.</p>

<p>As to ED or RD–if you are serious and the coach is serious then the conversation will move quickly to ED-- you need to be blunt–and ask–push-- for a blunt reply–most of the “he lied to me” is really that the coach hedged and the recruit did not push, but rather heard what she wanted to hear–again–no emotions–ask directly and demand direct answers. If you say no to ED the coach will wonder about your commitment and at some schools such as NESCAC their ability to be helpful will be reduced in the RD round (also most of the slots will be taken up in ED anyway). So if you go RD-- you may be preserving options–but for what end? If you like a program and MUCH more importantly–a college and the coach wants to know if you will go ED and he is willing to say out flat that he has taken your data to the admission liaison and gotten a “green light” and so will use a slot on you-- then say yes. But you want to hear “green light” and “will use a slot (or tip, the lingo varies)”.</p>

<p>Also, if your school counselor has a relationship with the college’s admissions committee they can ask if what the coach has said is borne out by the committee–remember it is in EVERYONE’s long term interest that there be no sandbagging-- the school doesn’t want their students’ sandbagged and the college doesn’t want to get the reputation as one who sandbags (there is a college in which a major feeder school has had a bad experience and lo and behold, the number of possible candidates–both athletic and non-athletic has dropped rather sharply. When the college called to ask why they were told bluntly by the head of college counseling the reason. Now do you think that that admissions committee director had a nice chat which the coach involved? I do…) </p>

<p>Most of us have had good experiences by and large and some bad ones that we can write about-- but mostly good ones.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>E’dad, that’s exactly one of the big problems and a large reason why someone “heard what she wanted to hear.”</p>

<p>Coach and admin lingo is a huge PITA.</p>

<p>I tell my d (and the people who work for me): “Mean what you say and say what you mean. Use plain, direct English.”</p>

<p>So, if I was a student, and a coach said to me “I got a green light” I would ask: “What exactly does ‘green light’ mean? Does it mean I will definitely be admitted if I apply ED? Does it mean I will only be considered but with a ‘push’ from the coach? Does it mean I will be admitted and will get enough money so that I can afford this place?” :wink: etc.</p>

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<p>Wanted to offer my $.02 here, many people on this board helped me when my d was going through the recruitment craziness last year.</p>

<p>First of all ED…yes, if you can, apply ED. However, many people don’t because they want to compare financial aid packages. One school told us that if d got in ED we were wedded to her choice regardless of the financial aid package received. Now, how ridiculous is that! This is a school that is notorious for really bad and occasionally bizarre financial aid. As a result d did not choose that school, even though she liked it and the coach was fabulous. It’s just absurd that the school can demand that your child stick to the ED agreement even if they decide you should cash in your retirement fund or take a HELOC so she can go there. But that’s why many people are afraid of ED. In our case, we just ditched the school completely.</p>

<p>We had some long, detailed conversations with the financial aid officer at the school d chose to apply ED. We ran the online calculator, asked questions, and felt pretty sure our numbers agreed with theirs. We asked if d was stuck with the ED agreement if something untoward happened and our package was way off. Their reply: of course not! Sure enough, everything looked exactly as expected. So if your athlete wants to apply ED and you are concerned about finances, please talk to the financial aid officer personally and be frank. If you think they are hard to deal with now, remember you will be dealing with them for four years. If you dislike the school administration, that’s already something to consider.</p>

<p>And second, about trusting the coach. I’m sure there are dishonest coaches out there. But now that this admissions cycle is over, I am frankly astonished at the number of kids who were courted by coaches but who did not get in! This includes both ED and RD. A good friend of my d, for example, was getting coach texts and calls a week before decisions came out in April, and then she was wait-listed. I have seen this school’s name around this board more than once for different sports–it makes me think the coaches at this school are either being misled by admissions or have very little pull even though they think they have more. I’m thinking this is the problem even more than deceitful coaches and the athlete not being ranked high enough. If the school itself doesn’t respect athletics enough to have a solid, organized recruitment strategy, then the coaches have to resort to this kind of grasping at straws in order to get promising athletes to even apply.</p>

<p>My take on all of this is to recommend that for div 3 and the Ivies, make sure your athlete is in range academically before trusting a coach or a recruitment system. For the truly world-class athlete, I’m sure you can fall out of that range somewhat, but if your kid is at that level you already know it and are fighting off multiple div 1 inquiries anyway (and if you don’t get the LL or whatever, you will have lots and lots of backups waiting for you).</p>

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<p>Depending on the program and whether they have an emphasis and tradition for winning coaches lie. Coaches lied in 1978-79 when I was recruited, LaSalle/U Texas they lied in 1995 when best friends nephew was recruited by University of Kentucky/Minnesota/South Florida and they continue to lie in 2012. It doesn’t matter with the sport or the coaches reputation, the big name schools and coaches lie, just like po-dunk U.</p>

<p>Remember the coach is looking out for him and your child is just the vehicle that he uses for that.</p>

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<p>I think that is spot on, and has been our philosophy.</p>

<p>And, I would also add - in range economically … something that we’re finding is a lot harder.</p>

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<p>Sorry to hear that. Just some thoughts. </p>

<p>1) Spots on the team can be taken by :
Legacy ( biggest one that I see over and over again).
Donor.
Professor’s kid… </p>

<p>So, unless it is the tennis team at UVA,
there are spots, here and there, on the team that were taken by kids who probably wouldn’t get it. You can’t always follow the rooster unless you really know the inside story. And there are a lot of inside stories on legacies and $ surprisingly getting kids on the team.</p>

<p>2) Coaches lie. In the end, you probably wouldn’t want your kid on a team where the coach has no integrity. Or at least that is the way you can sell it to your kid if they are furious.</p>

<p>3) If you want to wait to see the FA packages and compare, you have to do it at the end. On the other hand, your kid doesn’t graduate in debt for years to come. At this point, the job market is so bad, that kids are taking internships with no pay, and the parents are now paying the loans. So, your way sounds best to grab a good financial package.</p>

<p>4) Agree the safest bet is to be at the academic level of the other students so that you are not depending upon the coach.
I know your son is an excellent student, but am adding that for the rest of the parents out there.</p>

<p>Good luck!!!</p>

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<p>Our Family’s Lessons Learned </p>

<p>Key thing for us – which I know we learned from this forum somewhere – COACHES RECRUIT, ADMISSIONS ADMITS. It doesn’t matter what the coaches alludes to or suggests, you’re not in until you have the acceptance packet in hand. Other key thing for us --the coach doesn’t award academic dollars, you have to get all of your info in by the scholarship deadlines that apply to all applicants in order to be considered despite what the coach tells you( at least for D1). While the coach can submit your application as late as he wants (we were told up until July31st for Fall semester) once the academic dollars are issued to other students, that financial option is gone and the coach can only get you in. The coach only influences athletic money. We had coaches promise that based on pre-reads my son would get both academic and athletic money only to have the academic money come back with nothing because we applied too late. </p>

<p>Time your official visits correctly and in the right order. When a real (in writing via Fedex) dollar offer was made it came with a set response window. Fortunately we had my S second official visit within the window and were able to make an informed choice but we weren’t expecting time pressure. We were so happy he actually got an official visit it blindsided us, and just because they bring you out for a visit doesn’t mean there is any money. Coaches just want the student-athlete to fall in love with the school so the parents can pay full price!</p>

<p>I don’t think my S had coaches that out and out lied to him, they just never told him when his situation/status in recruiting changed and why. We tried to have him handle most of the calls until it got to where we needed to see if there would be any money, so we had the added problem of an adult (coach) being vague in communication and asking a seventeen year old (our S) to interpret what was being said.</p>

<p>We were amazed that responses from schools were so varied for the same student-athlete. It definitely depends on the situation of the team at the time you are working with them. And as others have pointed out the situation in some case changed weekly as schools signed other recruits, or in one instance we benefited from, the top recruit didn’t get accepted to the school. My S had a lackluster junior year and is having a great senior year in his sport. We think we helped him make the right choice but since most coaches recruit based on junior year performance, many schools had already signed other athletes by the time he started doing well and his performance met their criteria. But we have already had coaches contact him about transferring next year if he ends up dissatisfied with his college choice. We hope we have the right fit (and are DONE with recruiting) but it highlights that even as an incoming freshman you are also up against transfers for roster spots.</p>

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<p>CBW123</p>

<p>Can you say US Fencing at the collegiate level? Let’s do this with an <if statement="">
If the coach is from an Eastern Bloc country, and you are an American trained by his/her former student there is a chance that an opportunity will come your way…</if></p>

<p>But if that same coach goes to world championships they ARE going find any fencer to give a scholarship money(Toefl testing aside)</p>

<p>or If said coach is at the university of your choice preference is given to anyone from his homeland/former instructor etc. </p>

<p>If fencer just happens to be good enough, than maybe, just maybe it might really turn into a competition but all results will be discounted, because no one her stateside will ever be as good as anyone from their homeland…</p>

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<p>This is such an interesting “game”. In going through this process with my son and daughter, I think the biggest piece of advice I can give is try to build as many options as you possibly can, and trust your gut. I found that working with your son or daughter to have absolutely open communications with the coach is key. We tried to build a list o target schools of about 20, using the same methodology as suggested for the regular college application process: reach schools, good bets and safety schools. Early in the process, we initiated phone calls and asked the coach outright where we stood in the recruit priority list, and other recruit performance data. From those conversations, it became apparent where our opportunities were best. On the “gut”, you can get a great feel for the coach, school and program from unofficial visits. I recently did an unofficial with my daughter, and initially, the meet with the coach and tour was going well, but about half-way through, the coach got really impatient, and started pushing us out the door…others were welcoming, and took more time than we expected, introduced us to team and other coaches, etc. These visits were so key in narrowing down our focus list and seeing where we wanted to focus our efforts. Hope this was helpful. There are some other great articles on Recruiticus.</p>

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<p>Re: Trusting coaches, for the parents on this board who have had football players shooting for NESCAC/Colonial/Ivy/Patriot</p>

<p>How would you interpret this situation in terms of coach commentary:</p>

<p>Coach visited HS and two players were pulled from class. Both are 2 year Varsity starters on a top state team.</p>

<p>Player #1 Great talent and physical size for position, grades A’s like 4.0 but not in AP or honors, scores totally acceptable. No connections but really wants to go to school. Would need FA</p>

<p>Player #2 Good talent, definitely short for position by any football standard, though. Has 4.0 but only because it’s weighted because of AP classes. Here’s the thing, double legacy and no FA needed.</p>

<p>Where would one student stand against the other? </p>

<p>Player #1 was told to absolutely come to junior day and was given a card with the cell phone number of the coach. </p>

<p>Player #2 was told “you’re a lot further on in the process with us, we know much more about you” and they were already on a select list to get more time with coaching staff on junior day in the morning.</p>

<p>Could it be that the coaching staff really wants player No. 1 but is humoring player #2 because of the alumni connections?</p>

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<p>I think it sounds like they are both being looked at seriously. Camps also haven’t happened yet. For the moment they both sound competitive to me.</p>

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<p>Gingerpeach,</p>

<p>It is difficult to compare two players unless they play the same position. Player #2 could be a kicker. Bottom line is the coach is always going to try to get the best player he can get through the Admissions process at any college level at any time no matter what. His job is to win, and his goal is to extend his employment contract. I’ve heard many times over that sometimes Ivy/Patriot/NESCAC coaches don’t get all the players they want but they do get the students they want…which is why they are where they are. ;-)</p>

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<p>You know what, I did not even think of that. I was more thinking about the chances of one coach taking two kids from the same program, period. It didn’t seem likely to me which is why the discussion came up. Your bottom line makes the most sense, though. Thank you!</p>

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<p>Hi there. I’m a D3 Track and Field Recruit, who was recruited by both D3 and D2 (I ultimately chose D3)</p>

<p>My one piece of advice is this: Show the coach your interested.</p>

<p>Especially with D3, there are tons of recruits. You need to show the coach that not only are you talented, but you actually want to GO to the school, not just say you were recruited by a million schools. Being patient and polite to coaches will go a long way, and you’ll become a priority.</p>

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<p>Great advice - especially at the selective D3 schools.</p>

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<p>For the Ivies:
Only. Trust. A. Likely. Letter.</p>